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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Dec 2019 : 23:46:42
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Please list everything you've ever heard From ethnic revolutions to enslavement by the Drow or the Grey Dwarves.
The Gnomes have a wonderful trickster deity. Not Garl, but his better at such things. Is it Baravar Cloakshadow?
Same with the Dwarves... Vergadain right?
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2019 : 11:51:34
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Baravar uses illusions and deception to protect; he's not a god of humor, unlike Garl who actually has myths on him pranking Kurtulmak. Demihuman Deities notes that he's actually fairly vengeful, and whereas Garl's jokes are funny, Baravar's actually makes his audience uncomfortable.
Vergadain's role as a trickster god is somewhat secondary to his role as a trader's god; his priests are expected to be filthy stinking rich, not operate the local comedy club. |
Edited by - LordofBones on 23 Dec 2019 11:54:59 |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2019 : 22:25:37
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Baravar uses illusions and deception to protect; he's not a god of humor, unlike Garl who actually has myths on him pranking Kurtulmak. Demihuman Deities notes that he's actually fairly vengeful, and whereas Garl's jokes are funny, Baravar's actually makes his audience uncomfortable.
Vergadain's role as a trickster god is somewhat secondary to his role as a trader's god; his priests are expected to be filthy stinking rich, not operate the local comedy club.
I understand this... that is moot. Vergadain is a rogue beside or possibly because of coin. Vergadain could never hold a rogue title unless he had worshippers that were of that like. A Dwarven rogue would most likely follow Vergadain over the more serious battle gods or deities of invention or secrets.
Also, Baravar... Although he may not be a trickster deity, he is a deity of deception, and pranks and illusion and is a formal part of it.
So who would be the exemplar trickster? Garl or Baravar? Does being a trickster mean being light hearted and flighty? Or does it mean being deceptive and illusory?
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2019 : 22:48:13
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| They made not-warforged called Gondsmen, down in Lantan. I’m dying to have a rusty, barnacle-covered one turn up for sale in Thesk. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2019 : 23:15:05
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
They made not-warforged called Gondsmen, down in Lantan. I’m dying to have a rusty, barnacle-covered one turn up for sale in Thesk.
Imagine a Gnome PC fully embracing illusions and being adept at the craft, but not involving him or herself with Garl or Baravar? I see no difference in Garl and Baravar except that one is serious and mediocre... and the other is flighty and a greater god. Garl wants to kill his enemy with pranks.... Baravar wants to kill his enemy with tricks.
It's up to the DM or the person creating the character to decide what is what. Remember... D&D has a Base... but after that you can do what you want. Like Artifacts in D&D are open to anything, so why couldn't everything else you want or don't want. Just remember there must be balance. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2019 : 23:45:13
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Baravar uses illusions and deception to protect; he's not a god of humor, unlike Garl who actually has myths on him pranking Kurtulmak. Demihuman Deities notes that he's actually fairly vengeful, and whereas Garl's jokes are funny, Baravar's actually makes his audience uncomfortable.
Vergadain's role as a trickster god is somewhat secondary to his role as a trader's god; his priests are expected to be filthy stinking rich, not operate the local comedy club.
From Cannon Material....
They are unforgiving of any who threaten their charges, and feel no compunctions about acting against those who have earned their enmity. They are also rogues who enjoy using Illusions to confuse creatures before robbing them. They also seem to steal out of sheer boredom. They work well with Mischiefmakers of Erevan Ilesere as well as with Misadventurers of Brandobaris and Glitterbrights of Garl Glittergold. Although the Hoodwinker loves a good practical joke , their jests and tricks may cause no small discomfort to their victims.
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 02:43:04
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Droopy weapons make orcs sad...
Garl’s Gift – Gnome
(Alteration)
Level: 5
Range: 50 yards
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 round/level
Casting Time: 4
Area of Effect: 10-foot cube/level
Saving Throw: Special
This spell causes all weapons held by creatures hostile to the caster in the area of effect to become a very soft, sponge like material. This will lead to weapons that are longer than 1 foot in length to actually droop when held upright. Non-magical weapons do not get a saving throw but magical ones do get one vs. magical fire with a bonus of +1 per plus of the weapon.
Natural weapons of creatures such as claws and teeth are not affected but a spear made from bone would be affected. Ammunition is affected if it is manufactured like arrows, bolts, and sling bullets but natural stones would not be. Weapons that are already flexible, such as a rope or whip, are also transformed but are weakened. If used in the normal manner for these items, any character restrained by one has a 7% chance per point of strength of breaking the item (an affected sling would break if used based on the user’s Strength). When the spell duration ends, the broken weapon will remain broken.
All weapons in the transformed state are incapable of causing even subdual damage. If a magic weapon is transformed, it will lose all magical properties while affected by the spell (a sponge vorpal blade couldn’t cut soft cheese much less anything else). A dispel magic spell can change a weapon back to normal but only one weapon can be affected per casting of the spell.
This spell was created by Hondelroon Harkenhill, a very powerful gnome illusionist from over 2 centuries ago.
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"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 03:07:56
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Droopy weapons make orcs sad...
Garl’s Gift – Gnome
(Alteration)
Level: 5
Range: 50 yards
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 round/level
Casting Time: 4
Area of Effect: 10-foot cube/level
Saving Throw: Special
This spell causes all weapons held by creatures hostile to the caster in the area of effect to become a very soft, sponge like material. This will lead to weapons that are longer than 1 foot in length to actually droop when held upright. Non-magical weapons do not get a saving throw but magical ones do get one vs. magical fire with a bonus of +1 per plus of the weapon.
Natural weapons of creatures such as claws and teeth are not affected but a spear made from bone would be affected. Ammunition is affected if it is manufactured like arrows, bolts, and sling bullets but natural stones would not be. Weapons that are already flexible, such as a rope or whip, are also transformed but are weakened. If used in the normal manner for these items, any character restrained by one has a 7% chance per point of strength of breaking the item (an affected sling would break if used based on the user’s Strength). When the spell duration ends, the broken weapon will remain broken.
All weapons in the transformed state are incapable of causing even subdual damage. If a magic weapon is transformed, it will lose all magical properties while affected by the spell (a sponge vorpal blade couldn’t cut soft cheese much less anything else). A dispel magic spell can change a weapon back to normal but only one weapon can be affected per casting of the spell.
This spell was created by Hondelroon Harkenhill, a very powerful gnome illusionist from over 2 centuries ago.
Brilliant!! Is that homebrew or cannon? |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2019 : 03:40:07
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| I created it. It is one of the 32+ spells I am including in my Hardbuckler update. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2019 : 07:16:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Baravar uses illusions and deception to protect; he's not a god of humor, unlike Garl who actually has myths on him pranking Kurtulmak. Demihuman Deities notes that he's actually fairly vengeful, and whereas Garl's jokes are funny, Baravar's actually makes his audience uncomfortable.
Vergadain's role as a trickster god is somewhat secondary to his role as a trader's god; his priests are expected to be filthy stinking rich, not operate the local comedy club.
I understand this... that is moot. Vergadain is a rogue beside or possibly because of coin. Vergadain could never hold a rogue title unless he had worshippers that were of that like. A Dwarven rogue would most likely follow Vergadain over the more serious battle gods or deities of invention or secrets.
Also, Baravar... Although he may not be a trickster deity, he is a deity of deception, and pranks and illusion and is a formal part of it.
So who would be the exemplar trickster? Garl or Baravar? Does being a trickster mean being light hearted and flighty? Or does it mean being deceptive and illusory?
Both are trickster gods; going by avatars Garl is both the better thief and the better illusionist (going by 2e, anyway).
Garl, however, is the god of all aspects of gnomish society, not just trickery. He's not as 'concentrated', so to speak, as Baravar. |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2020 : 20:41:12
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Baravar uses illusions and deception to protect; he's not a god of humor, unlike Garl who actually has myths on him pranking Kurtulmak. Demihuman Deities notes that he's actually fairly vengeful, and whereas Garl's jokes are funny, Baravar's actually makes his audience uncomfortable.
Vergadain's role as a trickster god is somewhat secondary to his role as a trader's god; his priests are expected to be filthy stinking rich, not operate the local comedy club.
I understand this... that is moot. Vergadain is a rogue beside or possibly because of coin. Vergadain could never hold a rogue title unless he had worshippers that were of that like. A Dwarven rogue would most likely follow Vergadain over the more serious battle gods or deities of invention or secrets.
Also, Baravar... Although he may not be a trickster deity, he is a deity of deception, and pranks and illusion and is a formal part of it.
So who would be the exemplar trickster? Garl or Baravar? Does being a trickster mean being light hearted and flighty? Or does it mean being deceptive and illusory?
Both are trickster gods; going by avatars Garl is both the better thief and the better illusionist (going by 2e, anyway).
Garl, however, is the god of all aspects of gnomish society, not just trickery. He's not as 'concentrated', so to speak, as Baravar.
Thanks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2020 : 21:41:44
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| Gnomes of the Realms or most other settings have never interested me... Gnomes in Midgard, though, are interesting: their leader made and broke an agreement with Baba Yaga, and to protect themselves from her, made a new pact with the powers of the Eleven Hells. So there's a fair number of gnomes in Midgard that are evil and will happily kidnap and sacrifice people to the Eleven Hells. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2020 : 21:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Gnomes of the Realms or most other settings have never interested me... Gnomes in Midgard, though, are interesting: their leader made and broke an agreement with Baba Yaga, and to protect themselves from her, made a new pact with the powers of the Eleven Hells. So there's a fair number of gnomes in Midgard that are evil and will happily kidnap and sacrifice people to the Eleven Hells.
Lol, they don't seem to interest anyone really. I find them intriguing. I don't see what makes Halflings more interesting as opposed to gnomes. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2020 : 18:46:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Gnomes of the Realms or most other settings have never interested me... Gnomes in Midgard, though, are interesting: their leader made and broke an agreement with Baba Yaga, and to protect themselves from her, made a new pact with the powers of the Eleven Hells. So there's a fair number of gnomes in Midgard that are evil and will happily kidnap and sacrifice people to the Eleven Hells.
Lol, they don't seem to interest anyone really. I find them intriguing. I don't see what makes Halflings more interesting as opposed to gnomes.
I didn't give gnomes a second thought until I had to look into them when a rogue rolled one as a follower. After that, the more I read about them, the more I am convinced that, if they really wanted to, they could rule the world. They are a race that is inherently cooperative, intelligent, detail oriented, and are problem solvers without equal. The real reason why no one gives them a second thought is because the gnomes work very hard at keeping it that way. As long as they are not thought of a threat to anyone, no one is going to worry about their motives and goals. And THAT is why no one would see them taking over until it is too late. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2020 : 13:09:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Gnomes of the Realms or most other settings have never interested me... Gnomes in Midgard, though, are interesting: their leader made and broke an agreement with Baba Yaga, and to protect themselves from her, made a new pact with the powers of the Eleven Hells. So there's a fair number of gnomes in Midgard that are evil and will happily kidnap and sacrifice people to the Eleven Hells.
Lol, they don't seem to interest anyone really. I find them intriguing. I don't see what makes Halflings more interesting as opposed to gnomes.
Halflings have the likes of Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin on their side, so there's name recognition.
Gnomes have zilch. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2020 : 17:31:27
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Gnomes of the Realms or most other settings have never interested me... Gnomes in Midgard, though, are interesting: their leader made and broke an agreement with Baba Yaga, and to protect themselves from her, made a new pact with the powers of the Eleven Hells. So there's a fair number of gnomes in Midgard that are evil and will happily kidnap and sacrifice people to the Eleven Hells.
Lol, they don't seem to interest anyone really. I find them intriguing. I don't see what makes Halflings more interesting as opposed to gnomes.
Halflings have the likes of Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin on their side, so there's name recognition.
Gnomes have zilch.
Name recognition, maybe. But, how many garden gnomes are there out there. Thousands to 10s of thousands. That out numbers any halfling statues. We even have one. It is a zombie garden gnome but a gnome just the same. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2020 : 17:43:38
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Gnomes are just so similar to Hill Dwarves if a Rock Gnome or Halflings otherwise. Sniverwhatsits are unique I guess; but even they are much like ugly dwarves.
I know they have illusionist magic, but after 2nd edition even this niche was taken from them when anyone could be anything.
Gnomes in 1st edition were pretty bad ass. I played a Fighter/Illusionist and had fun all day....nothing like wearing plate armor and casting spells.
EDIT: note, couldn’t cast spells WHILE wearing plate...had to go down to leather to do that. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 03 Jan 2020 17:53:01 |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2020 : 18:36:01
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| Yeah, if elves could come up with something for them to be able to cast in armor (elven chain), I would think that gnomes would have come up with something similar. Maybe they were the first ones to come up with bracers of defense? Well, maybe some form of those using a version of Phantom Armor spell. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2020 : 03:58:58
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Yeah, if elves could come up with something for them to be able to cast in armor (elven chain), I would think that gnomes would have come up with something similar. Maybe they were the first ones to come up with bracers of defense? Well, maybe some form of those using a version of Phantom Armor spell.
Exactly. watch what happens. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2020 : 01:58:53
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| I love gnomes. And kender. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2020 : 04:03:11
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Yeah, if elves could come up with something for them to be able to cast in armor (elven chain), I would think that gnomes would have come up with something similar. Maybe they were the first ones to come up with bracers of defense? Well, maybe some form of those using a version of Phantom Armor spell.
I don't know about bracers of defense - why should gnome spellcasters need them any more than non-gnome spellcasters?
Gnomes are supposedly the creators of the deeppockets and item spells, bags of holding, perhaps Bucknard's everful purse and similar stuff.
An old Dragon magazine article discussed how gnomes have an unparalleled aptitude for understanding (and inventing) complex and intricate extra-dimensional magics, along with a certain psychology which always finds clever and unexpected ways to use such magical contraptions.
Elven fighter/mages might need elven chain.
But a gnomish fighter/illusionist or thief/illusionist would have different needs.
There are also gnomish "tinker" armors which incorporate all manner of hidden compartments, tools, devices, and surprises. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 11 Jan 2020 04:12:20 |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2020 : 04:35:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Yeah, if elves could come up with something for them to be able to cast in armor (elven chain), I would think that gnomes would have come up with something similar. Maybe they were the first ones to come up with bracers of defense? Well, maybe some form of those using a version of Phantom Armor spell.
I don't know about bracers of defense - why should gnome spellcasters need them any more than non-gnome spellcasters?
Gnomes are supposedly the creators of the deeppockets and item spells, bags of holding, perhaps Bucknard's everful purse and similar stuff.
An old Dragon magazine article discussed how gnomes have an unparalleled aptitude for understanding (and inventing) complex and intricate extra-dimensional magics, along with a certain psychology which always finds clever and unexpected ways to use such magical contraptions.
Elven fighter/mages might need elven chain.
But a gnomish fighter/illusionist or thief/illusionist would have different needs.
There are also gnomish "tinker" armors which incorporate all manner of hidden compartments, tools, devices, and surprises.
The tinker armor that I am familiar with is the set in the Arms and Equipment guide. That is equal to studded leather so while it would work for gnome fighter/thieves it wouldn't work for any multiclassed illusionsts. An illusionist is required to have a high dexterity because of the intricate somantic components of illusionist only spells. Bracers of defense would give them the freedom of movement needed. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2020 : 04:45:10
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| Armor requirements depend on rules edition. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2020 : 15:40:26
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True but Faerun history is tied to editions, too (Time of Troubles, 2E, Spellplague 3E, etc.) A 1E illusionist required a high dexterity and Bracers of Defense were in 1E as well. I guess that means that 1E rules were in effect from -339 (the first time the nature of magic changed) to 1358.
Thank you for having me realize that. I will have to incorporate it into my updates. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2020 : 20:49:04
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Thank you again, Dalor.
Gnomes and Magic
The history of magic use for gnomes is quite unique among the races of Faerûn. Like many of the other races, they started off without a magic of their own. However, unlike other races, they would later be introduced to and eventually practice two very different magical paths: Cormanthan magic and Netherese magic.
The first magical training gnomes had access to was that of the elves. Starting in -3520DR, the elves of Illefarn began to actively assist the gnomes that were able to escape from their Netherese slave masters. The elves eventually found a few gnomes that were able to understand and practice elven magic. These gnomes, an extreme rarity due to the demanding requirements of this knowledge (in game terms, they had to have 16 or higher scores in Intelligence, Wisdom, and Dexterity), were able to become what elves termed Dualist Wizards. The gnomes seemed, due to a racial inclination, to become only Nelluonkkar dualist wizards who specialized in the illusion/phantasm and necromancy schools of magic. The elves were quite pleased with this development since some among them felt that gnomes would never be able to practice magic because of their non-magical natures.
It was some of these gnome Nelluonkkar wizards that participated in the development of the trail of mists spell in -3150DR. The elves wanted to do more by this point to be able to help get the escaping gnomes further away from the Nether Empire more quickly and efficiently than their current methods. The results of their collaboration were the Trail of Mists, a series of “hallways” through the Border Ethereal that allowed the gnomes to cover larger distances more safely than what could be had on Faerûn.
Gnomes would have very likely been limited to using Cormanthan magic if it hadn’t been for an unexpected bit of serendipity in -3095DR: Some elves from Cormanthyr decided to steal a set of the Nether Scrolls. To get this done, they asked a gnome rogue named Rilmohx to help them since he was familiar with where they were stored. Due to Rilmohx’s assistance, the theft was successful and, due to his actions, he was declared a friend to elves and was subsequently named Rilmohx Sha’Quessir.
While that was a personal success for Rilmohx, it was more what else happened during the adventure that changed gnome history: Rilmohx read a bit of one of the scrolls and that unlocked Netherese magic for gnomes. Again, due to some propensity that gnomes have, Rilmohx became an Arcanist with a major in Mentalisms (his minor has been lost to history). Given what happened with the humans after they abandoned Cormanthan magic for the magic of the Nether Scrolls, the elves weren’t too happy about this development but recognized the fact that gnomes were not humans and maybe they will treat this new knowledge with more respect.
Recognizing the potential for his people, Rilmohx dedicated himself to spreading this knowledge among free gnomes everywhere. The knowledge spread quickly because practicing Netherese magic didn’t have the high ability requirements of Cormanthan magic (only a high Intelligence was needed). Even though Netherese magic gained a rapid following among gnomes, the elves continued to teach Cormanthan magic to any gnome who showed the ability to learn it. During this time, it was also discovered that no one being could practice both type of magics. The philosophy of each magic was mutually exclusive to the other.
This state of affairs continued on for several hundred years. Seeing the spread of Netherese magic, elves began a subtle campaign against gnomes learning it. The final outcome of this campaign was the elven archmages and gnome Nelluonkkar wizards developing the Illefarn mantle in -2555DR. The gnome Arcanists could only point to the ease of learning Netherese magic since they were unable to consult with Netherese Arcanists on their research (this even continued on after the Netheril Empire released the gnomes from slavery since no gnome would ever trust the Netherese).
So, this competition between gnome Nelluonkkar and gnome Arcanists continued for centuries. Each group researching their own spells and creating items based on their system of magic. One side would pull ahead in the race and then it would be the other side would top it with some new discovery. Through it all, the gnome community benefited from this friendly competition.
This all came to an end in -339DR. The nature of magic itself was substantially changed as the result of Karsus’ Folly. Scholars of magic have argued exactly what happened. Some say that Cormanthan “low” magic and Netherese magic was merged at this time. Others have stated that there is still difference between the two and only the means of accessing The Weave has changed. Either way, the result was that Arcanists could no long operate like they used to and had to now memorize spells just like the Cormanthan mages. The reader can come to their own conclusion but it is the author’s opinion that this was a punishment laid upon the Arcanists for Karsus’ transgression.
For the gnomes, the change in magic had several affects. The Nelluonkkar and Arcanists became one and the same. The requirements to learn magic were changed to a level that were not so restrictive as those for Cormanthan magic but were increased from what Arcanists were used to. Several spells developed by each group were no longer functional or their level was changed. It would take the next generation of gnome casters to become fully comfortable with the new state of magic.
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"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2020 : 02:49:21
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| I bet gnomes made the first displacer cloak... and maybe some kind of item that generates mirror images. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2020 : 05:28:51
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It seems to me that illusionists focus on deception. Not being where you think they are, being where you think they aren't. Discinclined to melee (let alone melee vs opponents twice their size), more inclined to impose magical barriers which prevent melee.
Items which fool the senses and make gnomes harder to target seem more sensible (to me) than bracers and armors and defenses. An illusionist doesn't really need raw AC if he's good enough at his craft.
Depends much on which game rules/edition you play. Illusions have a lot of leeway in earlier editions, later editions increasingly confine illusions to mechanical tables and stat blocks.
And depends just as much on the DM/author. Some are endlessly awed by good illusions, others endlessly hold them down with low regard. |
[/Ayrik] |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2020 : 03:03:53
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It doesn't help that a huge portion of the school's spells are countered by true seeing.
Necromancy arguably has the same problem, but Thanatopic Spell exists. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2020 : 18:11:55
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| Yep, that is why I came up with the Hoodwink spell to counter True Seeing. Although, to level the playing field, you could give illusions detection resistance to true seeing similar to what was suggested for rogues in the Complete Thief's Handbook. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2020 : 20:17:39
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I played an Illusionist for decades...and True Seeing is not really a problem.
True Seeing is good against Illusion, but Phantasms are quasi-real and still hurt you even if you know what they are. Aside from that, if someone has True Seeing, it can be countered with Dispel Magic...and not many individuals have multiple True Seeing spells memorized.
After 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D, Illusions took quite a beating as far as what they could do...and so it did indeed become harder to use Illusion for what was possible before.
The trade off after 1e was that Illusionists had access to spells they hadn't had before; so their power actually increased over all as they could then use 8th and 9th level spells.
Playing 1e as long as I did, Dalor Darden was a very good Illusionist; but honestly he was much better off when I went from only being an Illusionist to being a Magic-User as well. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2020 : 16:54:51
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Yep, phantasms are commonly used by our illusionist for that exact same reason. Plus, since they aren't alive, spells that affect living creatures won't affect them like it would for a summon monster spell.
We didn't have any illusionists while we were playing 1e so the only experience I have seen in play is using the 2e rules. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gnomes in the realms
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