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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Oct 2019 : 23:46:21
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Essentially what creature is used as a symbol of opulence and display?
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2019 : 23:54:53
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| I would venture it varies much by culture in the realms, and to what end are we speaking (i.e. peacocks used as a dinner centerpriece type thing, or peacocks walking around outside looking pretty). Magic centric countries might display constructs they've created or creatures like a behir that they've magically bred. In others, having pegasi, griffins, hippogriffs, asperii, and similar flying mounts might be popular. Having a tressym, flying snake, faerie dragon, etc... pet might be popular in certain areas. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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AJA
Senior Scribe
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2019 : 00:24:04
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One of the FR-equivalents of the peacock is the cathlyre, specifically noted in the Menzoberranzan box set as
quote:
surface-world birds of all sorts (including the peacock-like cathlyre)
In terms of symbols as Sleyvas (and Ed, undoubtably) said, "it depends."
I'd like to think that in some far corner of the Realms owning an aurumvorax is a symbol of immense wealth, in that you have so much wealth that you can literally shove gold down its gullet and not even care.
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AJA
YAFRP
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Edited by - AJA on 04 Oct 2019 00:46:55 |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2019 : 00:54:41
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| would limiting to the sword coast help? |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2019 : 03:02:39
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quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
would limiting to the sword coast help?
How about a golden ammonite then? |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2019 : 10:03:20
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| Do peacocks, as they look and are called, not exist in the Realms? |
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BrennonGoldeye
Learned Scribe
105 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2019 : 16:02:11
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quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
Do peacocks, as they look and are called, not exist in the Realms?
Agreed, and imagine ones with Templates... |
Sam |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2019 : 02:50:00
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| Peacocks, and I presume peahens, are present in Furthinghome, Aglarond, and were imported from Mulhorand. This is in the Spellbound sourcebook. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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BadLuckBugbear
Seeker
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2019 : 03:37:29
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Peacocks, and I presume peahens, are present in Furthinghome, Aglarond, and were imported from Mulhorand. This is in the Spellbound sourcebook.
Maybe export of the hens is banned by the government of Mulhorand? No hens, no eggs, no chicks.
Good luck actually enforcing the ban in any comprehensive fashion, but it could still be a law on the books that might come into play in an adventure.
"What do you mean, contraband? It's just a scrawny quail with a goose neck, so what's the big deal?"
"Blasphemy!"
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Ewan Cummins |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2019 : 05:09:07
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Nah, the author just didn't know peacocks are strictly the male of the species. Otherwise, they're more giant pigeons in Furthinghome.
"One of Furthinghome's most unusual features is the large number of wild peacocks that roam the surrounding countryside, breeding unrestrainedly and often terrifying unsuspecting travelers with their wild, human-sounding shrieks. These peacocks are descended from a small flock imported by the eccentric Lord Ceraut, a Mulhorandi nobleman who lived in Furthinghome several decades ago." |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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BadLuckBugbear
Seeker
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2019 : 05:14:31
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Nah, the author just didn't know peacocks are strictly the male of the species. Otherwise, they're more giant pigeons in Furthinghome.
"One of Furthinghome's most unusual features is the large number of wild peacocks that roam the surrounding countryside, breeding unrestrainedly and often terrifying unsuspecting travelers with their wild, human-sounding shrieks. These peacocks are descended from a small flock imported by the eccentric Lord Ceraut, a Mulhorandi nobleman who lived in Furthinghome several decades ago."
I wonder, does the masculine noun cover the feminine in that case? Or it it properly 'peafowl'?
EDIT I looked it up. Yep, it's peafowl.
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Ewan Cummins |
Edited by - BadLuckBugbear on 07 Oct 2019 05:15:35 |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2019 : 11:22:17
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| I have to say I prefer the name cathlyre and give props to AJA for finding that reference. |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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BadLuckBugbear
Seeker
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2019 : 17:28:06
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I have to say I prefer the name cathlyre and give props to AJA for finding that reference.
It's a good name. It sounds like something out of a medieval bestiary.
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Ewan Cummins |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
502 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2019 : 17:00:51
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| For what it is worth, the red peacock is considered a "sacred" animal of Lathander. You can find the information in the the 3E Faith's and Pantheons WE1, "Do's and Don'ts", as well as animals for other deities. Lathander has been known to send peacocks to followers one example is Haroistem from 2E. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2020 : 10:48:23
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Was re-reading Volo's Guide to the North
quote:
Volo's Guide to the North, p.64:
The mosses are deep-fried and coated in various sauces or in wine-and-peahen
gravy. I find it brittle and not particularly tasty, but some folk swear by it.
Also:
quote:
For Duty & Deity, p.10:
[...] offer any nonmagical item the players can imagine. If one of the PCs has always wanted a Kara-Turan peacock-feather
fan or has yearned to taste Maztican maize (corn), Waukeen's Promenade is the place to find it.
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People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2020 : 14:56:45
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| You know, since the Cathlyre is specifically known as an ALTERNATE type of peacock (its called a peacock-like creature), it might be interesting to define HOW a Cathlyre is different than a peacock. So, as a bit of a game here at the keep... anyone got some ideas? My first thoughts are that these are creatures that are known to dark elves in the underdark…. so are they underdark creatures? Are they drawn to areas with faerzress? Do they emit some kind of natural glow like faerie fire when exposed to faerzress? Do they have some kind of illusion, charm, or bedazzlement type effect? I'm thinking these should be minor creatures, but enough to draw the actual attention of the drow such that they'd name a place after them because of their beauty. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 03:00:38
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It could just be a different type of bird, but one that has similar very prominent feathers.
However... If drow keep them, then there's some aspect of them that makes them beautiful in the absence of light.
Maybe they have a natural faerie fire ability that is limited to their feathers. Or maybe something about their feathers makes them glow in infravision/darkvision/whatever the drow have now. It could also be that their feathers retain certain effects -- maybe a faerie fire cast on them lasts for days, or maybe certain foods/chemicals can make the feathers glow a certain shade. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Feb 2020 03:06:22 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 07:59:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It could just be a different type of bird, but one that has similar very prominent feathers.
However... If drow keep them, then there's some aspect of them that makes them beautiful in the absence of light.
Maybe they also sing?
But the drow don't all sit in complete darkness all the time.
Still, if the drow keep them, cathlyres probably can see in the dark (whether "some faerie fire" grade dark, or complete) a lot better than chickens.
quote:
Maybe they have a natural faerie fire ability that is limited to their feathers. Or maybe something about their feathers makes them glow in infravision/darkvision/whatever the drow have now. It could also be that their feathers retain certain effects -- maybe a faerie fire cast on them lasts for days, or maybe certain foods/chemicals can make the feathers glow a certain shade.
Coloration that's particularly shiny in faerie fire grade lighting?
Some sort of magic fluorescence? Unusual effects of magic light are not rare: from VGATM alone - bluestone, corstal, adamantine and dlarun react to magical radiances.
Also, "cath" seems to be a fairly common root, what does it mean? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 11:15:17
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Maybe they also sing?
But the drow don't all sit in complete darkness all the time.
They don't sit in complete darkness all the time, no -- but they do favor the dark. Their cities are overall not illuminated by much more than faerie fire and other magical effects, and bright light is only used where necessary.
Peacocks are kept for the beauty of their feathers, so one would assume the same for a cathlyre. And if the race keeping them is known for hanging out in very low-level illumination, at best, then the bird must still be very pleasing to see in that lessened amount of light. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 11:30:14
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Ok, so it seems we're all in favor of them having some kind of faerie fire effect on their feathers. I think I like that, in that they may be kind of used as decoration. I'm also intrigued by TBeholder's notion that they might sing, as birdsong is something I don't believe we have a lot of powers listed for, and I can see drow appreciating beautiful music. What if Cathlyre's have some minor magical bardic talent. For instance, maybe they can cast sleep and drow use them to put their children to sleep like a lullaby. Maybe they can use healing word via magical song and so the temples keep them around for minor healing. Maybe they can cast faerie fire elsewhere. Maybe they only have like 2 or 3 1st level spell slots. Also, maybe they're kind of intelligent, but they can't speak, but they have the minor illusion cantrip, and so they can kind of relay concepts via imagery.
Also, maybe older ones are more powerful as well, such that they have more powerful spells available.... or maybe there's a "dire cathlyre". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 11:56:47
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I would say cathlyres are magic beasts, but no more dangerous than peacocks.
I like the idea that they can naturally cloak their tail feathers in faerie fire of wild colors as a "magical beast mating ritual."
They are not going to be fighters, so maybe they also have a natural color spray ability by moving their feathers? That would give them time to escape predators.
I think that's really all they need.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 12:25:37
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Ah, they don't need to be extremely magical, but I think they should be fairly interesting enough that they've caught the attention of dark elves. I'd be not against but disinclined towards the color spray if only to differentiate them from the Corollax (a parrot that does color spray). I agree though, not making them DANGEROUS. The only combative ability I might see them having would be like the sleep ability I mention above, and maybe even that is a lesser version that has to be targeted. We might even call it "lullaby".
That being said, maybe they are birds with yet another twist. For instance, what if they are tied to the elements. Being in the underdark, maybe they actually consume small pebbles, and sometimes this contains Faerzress. Also, what if their feathers themselves are less "peacock feather" and more a collection of blue, purple, green, gold, and red crystalline and metallic blend structures (kind of like "leaded glass", but not lead and not glass). Maybe the "tinkling" of these crystalline feathers makes for a beautiful music somewhat reminiscent of metal wind chimes (in fact, the drow may MAKE wind chimes from their feathers... even if drow cities don't have a lot of wind like the surface, they have some). Their feathers may be prized as a source of faerzress energy. Also, what if they are akin to cockatrice, in that they can petrify things by pecking them with their beaks... but maybe only dead flesh, so that its not useful in combat EXCEPT against undead like zombies and vampires.... and then they peck at and eat the crystallized corpse. Cathlyre excrement may also be considered a very potent fertilizer for growing mushroom plants to be used for minor benign alchemical purposes, such as a potion of healing, or perhaps if it contains crystalline structures, maybe it can be replaced for gorgon's blood in various creations used in structural builds.
Also, maybe there's something to the "lyre" in Cathlyre if the above "metallic crystal" idea is acceptable. For instance, perhaps longer strands of Cathlyre feathers are snipped and used to make strings in dark elven lyres for bards? Maybe these instruments are known as "Cathfeather Lyres" and sometimes "Cathlyres" for short.
Finally, maybe there's different BREEDS of Cathlyre, and each breed has its own coloration and maybe a different ability. For instance, there may be dark/light green, dark/light blue, purple, red, pink, violet, and orange/yellow variants. Or perhaps there are all the different colors, but the abilities themselves vary from bird to bird. So, perhaps some have sleep and others have color spray. Maybe some can do healing word with their song, while others can purify food and drink. Hell, maybe there's Cathlyre with the ability to create unseen servants and the dark elves actually use these creatures to maintain their abodes or somesuch (I admit this last is a little weird). Red feather ones may even be able to create an effect like heat metal (less damaging but longer lasting) by pecking a piece of metal and blacksmiths in the underdark may prize such birds (feeding them the "hard to eat" portions of dead goblin or kobold slaves, etc...). Others may be able to cast an equivalence of blade ward and barkskin/mage armor, but one that makes the skin take on a crystalline sheen, and these Cathlyre might be favored as dark elven familiars by wizards (maybe they can even cast stoneskin once a day). Perhaps golden ones can imbue divine favor on their masters, and thus warlocks and wizards who take the bladesinging arcane tradition (and often use the bird fighting style) might favor them. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 24 Feb 2020 13:54:58 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 13:32:55
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If spooked. Or something related to Hypnotic Pattern?
Also, if they indeed have vision good for faerie fire/starlight illumination level, this may have something to do with unusual activity cycle? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 14:25:43
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Hmmm, and on the idea of their individual strands from their feathers being used to make strings for a dark elven lyre, maybe such creations have a bonus of some sort when used to create illusory or enchantment effects? Maybe they also produce minor illusory color effects while being played that are tied to the emotions of the musician? For instance, if they're singing a love song, maybe you see a somewhat vague impression of lovers. These are all things that aren't overpowering, but could give some real "flavor" to them.
To that end, when I say individual strands, what I mean is the twining/plaiting/braiding of the individual strands together to make a single string. Such strands may be all of the same color OR multiple colors plaited together, and the colors used may make the "tone" of the string subtly diferent. Thus, in addition to the length changing the tone of a string, these hand harps/lyres might have different tones based on the types of feathers used in the string and a given lyre might have multiple colored strings. Such strings would thusly be stronger and less prone to breaking.
Also, the form of such devices may not all be the same either. For instance, some might be a beautiful hand harp made of mithral or adamantine. Others might be on strings twined around "nails"/"teeth" set into a simple Zurkhwood mushroom piece of wood that's been beautifully carved/dyed and might be played like a dulcimer ( https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dulcimer ). Still others might be created from the ribcage of a powerful songmage, with the bone tips drilled out and the strings stretched between the bones on each side. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 24 Feb 2020 15:07:23 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 16:36:06
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I would say cathlyres are magic beasts, but no more dangerous than peacocks.
I like the idea that they can naturally cloak their tail feathers in faerie fire of wild colors as a "magical beast mating ritual."
They are not going to be fighters, so maybe they also have a natural color spray ability by moving their feathers? That would give them time to escape predators.
I think that's really all they need.
--Eric
This works for me, though I'd also consider hypnotic pattern. Maybe even some sort of dancing lights as part of the mating ritual, though that may be pushing it. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 16:42:54
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Ok, so it seems we're all in favor of them having some kind of faerie fire effect on their feathers. I think I like that, in that they may be kind of used as decoration. I'm also intrigued by TBeholder's notion that they might sing, as birdsong is something I don't believe we have a lot of powers listed for, and I can see drow appreciating beautiful music. What if Cathlyre's have some minor magical bardic talent. For instance, maybe they can cast sleep and drow use them to put their children to sleep like a lullaby. Maybe they can use healing word via magical song and so the temples keep them around for minor healing. Maybe they can cast faerie fire elsewhere. Maybe they only have like 2 or 3 1st level spell slots. Also, maybe they're kind of intelligent, but they can't speak, but they have the minor illusion cantrip, and so they can kind of relay concepts via imagery.
Also, maybe older ones are more powerful as well, such that they have more powerful spells available.... or maybe there's a "dire cathlyre".
Don't drow share the elven resistance to sleep magics?
I'm inclined to focus on the visual, for the cathlyres. Real peacocks are a noisy bunch; if they have any kind of pleasant song, I've not heard of it.
Also, opulent displays are often just that -- displays. I would say that for the drow, being able to impress at a glance would be more important than impressing with birdsong. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 18:23:22
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| VERY good point on elves being immune to sleep. I hadn't thought about that. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 18:41:08
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Honestly, I would keep it simple. Magical beasts should follow evolutionary principles, just like real world animals. If it helps them mate or defend themselves, it makes sense.
In this case, the faerie fire is for mating. I would pick one power that's about making time to flee. Hypnotic pattern is good or color spray.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 20:22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Honestly, I would keep it simple. Magical beasts should follow evolutionary principles, just like real world animals. If it helps them mate or defend themselves, it makes sense.
In this case, the faerie fire is for mating. I would pick one power that's about making time to flee. Hypnotic pattern is good or color spray.
--Eric
I like hypnotic pattern, better, after looking at the 5E versions of the two. Blinding isn't as effective in the dark or against animals that have decent scent-based tracking. Incapacitating something and leaving it with 0 movement is much better for enabling a hasty retreat. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2020 : 08:10:15
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Learned Scribe shades of eternity,
I thought of the Plumazotl from Maztica. Gorgeous! :)
quote:
These rare creatures are composed completely of brightly colored feathers. They commonly take the forms of birds, although some have a humanoid shape. Their sizes range from that of a hummingbird to that of a giant eagle. Plumazotl have very musical voices, and generally speak an ancient form of Payit as well as the language of intelligent species that dwell near them.(Maztica boxed set, p.62)
Thoughts?
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
Essentially what creature is used as a symbol of opulence and display?
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Topic |
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What is the FR equivalent of a peacock?
