| Author |
 Topic  |
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Feb 2018 : 01:10:20
|
| Wow, this is all news to me (th3 shadar(er)-kai being elves). I thought I knew my elf lore. Guess not. Then again, I don't have some of the earlier stuff, and I don't own all the sourcebooks. I pre-ordered MTOF, just for lore purposes. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 10 Feb 2018 01:28:17 |
 |
|
|
Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe
Canada
124 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2018 : 07:05:37
|
| I'm hoping they touch upon the Daemonfey in this book, though I find it unlikely. Still, I'd rather have something official to use rather than blending variations of the elven and tiefling racial features. |
"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline." |
|
|
|
Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 18:29:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Balmar Foghaven
I'm hoping they touch upon the Daemonfey in this book, though I find it unlikely. Still, I'd rather have something official to use rather than blending variations of the elven and tiefling racial features.
Actually I think its very likely they are in. The book features new demons/devils/yugoloths, the Blood War, a Chapter on the Elves and their conflicts, and Elf based monsters, and Cambion variants so thematically the Fey'ri which are basically Elvish Cambions, would fit in to all of that with ease. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 19:14:27
|
I had thought about the fact they are doing BOTH 'ancient elven history' (as in, antideluvian {pre-Realms} Elven history), AND that they're doing the Blood War as well, and you would think its a natural tie-in.
Buuuuuut... everything is going to be in its own, neat little 'compartmentalized' chapter. It sounds very much like how Lost Empires of Faerūn was done, and my biggest complaint (perhaps my ONLY complaint) with that book is that each section was 'unto itself'. They didn't touch upon the other sections at all, which makes the 'history' feel very artificial (because history is nothing more than a series of 'ripples in a pond' that effect EVERYTHING else). They do this because its a game, and they need to keep the game material focused, so I understand the approach, but I fail to appreciate it.
To me, its like the difference between DC comics and Marvel comics back when I was a kid (70's). DC comics were VERY compartmentalized - they were each their own thing. You never even heard any of the individual heroes mention the JLA in their own books. Hell, in one Flash comic the world was being invaded by aliens, and he never summoned the JLA! It was at that point I started to realized how stupid DC was (back then), and I had already started reading some Marvel (thanks to my older brother). Marvel had this sneaky way of forcing you to read their other titles - they did crossovers, where the story would begin in one hero's book, and end anther title. The beauty of that is that you could read both halves of a story the same month. The down side was that I eventually found myself having to buy every single Marvel title - something you didn't have to do with DC.
And I LOVED it. It felt like a REAL world (well, except for all the flying people and eye-lasers, LOL). Everything that happened in Marvel had perturbations that affected everything else. That's what makes a setting 'come alive'. That's what Ed Greenwood knew; why he dropped all those delicious 'Red Slippers'* into the lore. And its precisely what 3e slowly pulled away from, and went with a very stagnant, 'factual', compartmentalized approach. Ed's living, breathing world became more like a photo-album. You got 'snapshots', rather than a story.
And, I fear, that's precisely what Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes is going to be like. Plus, its all from the world-view of a dude from Oerth (GH) - why the heck would he even know about Realms-specific lore, let alone discuss it? Its just not going to happen, IMHO.
*Red Slippers is a concept (and literally device) that has been used by many authors but never given a name, AFAIK, before Dennis McKiernan wrote his book Red Slippers: More tales of Mithgar. The concept is that you name-drop stuff all throughout your work, be it places, personages, or things, to make your world seem more real, more 'alive'. Lovecraft did it with aplomb. So much so other authors picked-up on his Red Slippers (The Necrominicon, etc) and used them in their works. McKiernan came up with the name because he used to reference "the peculiar case of the Red Slipper", an event mentioned by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in his Sherlock Holmes novels, but was never a real story. It was never elaborated on - it was just an offhand mention to make the world seem 'bigger' than just the cases we read about. And people LOOK for "the peculiar case of the Red Slipper", because fans want to know more. It became real to them. But there was no such story. It was just an in-world reference. So, although Mr. McKiernan may not have brought much originality to the table in his body of works, he understood good writing, and gave us a name for something that's been around a very long time. His book with that in the title? That was him finally explaining some of HIS 'Red Slippers' (which, unfortunately, defeats the whole purpose, eh?) As Ed once told the TSR design team - "for every one of (my) plothooks you use up, create three new ones". He understood that Red Slippers need to be left lying around. That when a world looks too 'neat & tidy' it begins look artificial.
Because here at CK, that's almost all we do. We try to find what those Red Slippers belong to. This site probably wouldn't still be around if it wasn't for them. This is why I meet new lore like MToF with both glee and trepidation. I WANT to know all the details, but a small part of me wants to keep wanting... that's just human nature. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 12 Feb 2018 19:20:46 |
|
|
|
Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2018 : 23:46:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I had thought about the fact they are doing BOTH 'ancient elven history' (as in, antideluvian {pre-Realms} Elven history), AND that they're doing the Blood War as well, and you would think its a natural tie-in.
Buuuuuut... everything is going to be in its own, neat little 'compartmentalized' chapter. It sounds very much like how Lost Empires of Faerūn was done, and my biggest complaint (perhaps my ONLY complaint) with that book is that each section was 'unto itself'. They didn't touch upon the other sections at all, which makes the 'history' feel very artificial (because history is nothing more than a series of 'ripples in a pond' that effect EVERYTHING else). They do this because its a game, and they need to keep the game material focused, so I understand the approach, but I fail to appreciate it.
To me, its like the difference between DC comics and Marvel comics back when I was a kid (70's). DC comics were VERY compartmentalized - they were each their own thing. You never even heard any of the individual heroes mention the JLA in their own books. Hell, in one Flash comic the world was being invaded by aliens, and he never summoned the JLA! It was at that point I started to realized how stupid DC was (back then), and I had already started reading some Marvel (thanks to my older brother). Marvel had this sneaky way of forcing you to read their other titles - they did crossovers, where the story would begin in one hero's book, and end anther title. The beauty of that is that you could read both halves of a story the same month. The down side was that I eventually found myself having to buy every single Marvel title - something you didn't have to do with DC.
And I LOVED it. It felt like a REAL world (well, except for all the flying people and eye-lasers, LOL). Everything that happened in Marvel had perturbations that affected everything else. That's what makes a setting 'come alive'. That's what Ed Greenwood knew; why he dropped all those delicious 'Red Slippers'* into the lore. And its precisely what 3e slowly pulled away from, and went with a very stagnant, 'factual', compartmentalized approach. Ed's living, breathing world became more like a photo-album. You got 'snapshots', rather than a story.
And, I fear, that's precisely what Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes is going to be like. Plus, its all from the world-view of a dude from Oerth (GH) - why the heck would he even know about Realms-specific lore, let alone discuss it? Its just not going to happen, IMHO.
*Red Slippers is a concept (and literally device) that has been used by many authors but never given a name, AFAIK, before Dennis McKiernan wrote his book Red Slippers: More tales of Mithgar. The concept is that you name-drop stuff all throughout your work, be it places, personages, or things, to make your world seem more real, more 'alive'. Lovecraft did it with aplomb. So much so other authors picked-up on his Red Slippers (The Necrominicon, etc) and used them in their works. McKiernan came up with the name because he used to reference "the peculiar case of the Red Slipper", an event mentioned by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in his Sherlock Holmes novels, but was never a real story. It was never elaborated on - it was just an offhand mention to make the world seem 'bigger' than just the cases we read about. And people LOOK for "the peculiar case of the Red Slipper", because fans want to know more. It became real to them. But there was no such story. It was just an in-world reference. So, although Mr. McKiernan may not have brought much originality to the table in his body of works, he understood good writing, and gave us a name for something that's been around a very long time. His book with that in the title? That was him finally explaining some of HIS 'Red Slippers' (which, unfortunately, defeats the whole purpose, eh?) As Ed once told the TSR design team - "for every one of (my) plothooks you use up, create three new ones". He understood that Red Slippers need to be left lying around. That when a world looks too 'neat & tidy' it begins look artificial.
Because here at CK, that's almost all we do. We try to find what those Red Slippers belong to. This site probably wouldn't still be around if it wasn't for them. This is why I meet new lore like MToF with both glee and trepidation. I WANT to know all the details, but a small part of me wants to keep wanting... that's just human nature.
Even if both sections don't reference Fey'ri they could be in the back of the book in the monster section or simply be a Cambion variant. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2018 : 18:47:36
|
| Well, Mike Mearls did say the book was setup a lot like Xanather's Guide, and I haven't seen that, so someone else who has may be able to make a more educated guess than I. I just don't see Mordenkainen talking about FR-specific things, but if Xanather talked about non-FR things (and more specifically, stuff explicitly from another setting), than I would have to assume the 'narrator' of the book doesn't really matter at all. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2018 : 22:59:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, Mike Mearls did say the book was setup a lot like Xanather's Guide, and I haven't seen that, so someone else who has may be able to make a more educated guess than I. I just don't see Mordenkainen talking about FR-specific things, but if Xanather talked about non-FR things (and more specifically, stuff explicitly from another setting), than I would have to assume the 'narrator' of the book doesn't really matter at all.
He said it's set up like Volo's Guide, not Xanathar's Guide, big difference.
Basically first part will be Lore focused like it was for Volo's, although it was be lore focused on various races and their conflicts instead of Monster societies (Blood War Devils vs. Demons, Drow vs. None Drow Elves, Duergur vs Surface Dwarves, Githyanki vs. Githzerai vs. Mindflayers, Halflings and Gnomes just chilling out).
Then the middle will be player material (in Volo's it was Aasimar [Protector/Scourge/Fallen], Firbolgs, Yuan Ti Purebloods, Goliaths, Hobgoblins, Tabaxi, Hobgoblins, Kenku, Goblins, Bugbears, Tritons, Kobolds) and in MTOFs it will be With & Gith subraces (Githyanki & Githzerai), (Elven subraces like Shadar Kai, Eldarin, Sea Elves, maybe others), Tiefling subraces based on the Archdevils of Hell, possibly a reprint of Duergar and maybe some new Half Elf variants based on Shadar Kai and Eldarin (this is hypothetical), maybe Deep Gnomes and Whisper Halflings as well. There could races and player mechanics they haven't revealed yet.
Last section would be monsters, just like VGTM did (new demons, new devils, new Yugoloths, new monsters from the Shadowfell, Elf based monsters, Gnomish Clockwork Constructs, possibly Hoardlings, Cambion variants, Eidilons, ect..., half of the monsters will be CR 10 or higher). |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 01:37:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
He said it's set up like Volo's Guide, not Xanathar's Guide, big difference.
I was unaware there even was a Volo's guide. I need to catch-up. 
Good information - thank you for sharing.
How was the Volo's guide, BTW? Now that I know Firbolgs were in it, I may have to buy that book. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 02:10:11
|
| Both Volo's Guide to Monsters and Xanathar's Guide to Everything were excellent. Volo's in particular is the highest rated 5E book (and 6th highest rated RPG book) on ENWorld, http://www.enworld.org/forum/productforums.php?do=criticalhits&sort=rating. The Monster lore in the front section really raises the bar, especially for monsters that hadn't seen that kind of attention in D&D before (looking at you goblinoids) or how they tweaked some things for the way better (looking at you beholders who now reproduce by dreaming of themselves). |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 03:01:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Both Volo's Guide to Monsters and Xanathar's Guide to Everything were excellent. Volo's in particular is the highest rated 5E book (and 6th highest rated RPG book) on ENWorld, http://www.enworld.org/forum/productforums.php?do=criticalhits&sort=rating. The Monster lore in the front section really raises the bar, especially for monsters that hadn't seen that kind of attention in D&D before (looking at you goblinoids) or how they tweaked some things for the way better (looking at you beholders who now reproduce by dreaming of themselves).
Honestly, that monster lore is a huge mark against the book, for me. When I was reading that Volo book, some of the monster lore made me regret the money I spent on the book. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 03:13:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Both Volo's Guide to Monsters and Xanathar's Guide to Everything were excellent.
quote:
(looking at you beholders who now reproduce by dreaming of themselves).
A good reason to not like the book in my opinion. Dream you fellows. *shudders*
Of course others might like the idea. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1487 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 03:35:36
|
| I imagine that the lore is from the generic player's perspective. It's the sort of thing the party wizard tells to his gullible fighter buddy for a laugh, only for that gullible fighter buddy to teach that in a monster-hunting course in the local fighter's guild. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 05:34:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Both Volo's Guide to Monsters and Xanathar's Guide to Everything were excellent.
quote:
(looking at you beholders who now reproduce by dreaming of themselves).
A good reason to not like the book in my opinion. Dream you fellows. *shudders*
Of course others might like the idea.
It also had gnolls spontaneously forming from hyenas.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 14:25:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
it seemed the xanather was generic dnd and not much FR related stuff to me other than the title.
that may be just my opinion.
so it became look at, judged it not worth it. due to time constraints I looked at it again and my opinion did not change.
Mordenkainen's book will be the same treatment.
Instead of pages of useless filler at the end it should have had how to use the subclasses and racial feats in various settings like the SCAG did.
Still as knowledgeable as I am about FR there is enough fluff in the subclasses to know how most of them fit into the realms.
Divine Souls would be very common in the old empires region from those descended from the blood lines of gods and their celestial/fiendish servants.
Samauri would be common in Kara Tur, especially Wa and that other Japan, as well as areas of high Shu populations.
Shadow Magic Sorcerers would be common in Netherese and Shadar Kai cities as well anywhere else that was exiled into the Shadowfell for a time.
Hexblades would be descendants of the Swordmage shadow magic of Netheril.
Celestial Pact Warlocks would be common among that Aasimar city in the Gates of the Moon.
Storm Magic Sorcerers common in the lands of the Sea of Fallen Stars (Great Rain) and Calimport (Descendants of Djinn).
Arcane Archers, common in the Yuirwood and various Elven lands.
Cavaliers common in Tethyr.
Mastermind could be found on Thieves Guilds, Inquistives in City Watches, Swashbucklers on ships, and Scouts serving in various military outposts in the wilderness.
Oath of Conquest, common among the faiths of Bane, Lovitar, Tempus, Helm, Asmodeaus.
Oath of Remdemption common among the faiths of Ilmater, Nobanion, Sharess, Sune, Llirra, Eldath.
Monks of the Sun Soul common among most goodly faiths.
Drunken Masters, Sharess, Sune, Llirra, and parts of Kara Tur.
Kenasi Kara Tur, maybe among the faithful of Tempus as well.
College of Glamour common among Elves, College of Whispers a Drow college, maybe Shadar Kai as well, College of Blades, connected to circuses travelling the realms.
Circle of Dreams and Circle of the Shepherd common on both the Moonshaes and Yuirwood and Feywild.
Warmages common among the War Wizards of Cormyr, some among mercanary groups, and some trained in Mulhorand.
Storm Heralds more likely found among tribes in extreme environments like Icewind Dale or the Calimshan Desert.
Zealots common in the armies if Tempus, Anhur, Garagos, Mordin, Thard Harr, and a few serving Sharess/Bast, Bane, Loviatar, Asmodeus.
Ancestoral Guardians common among any tribe, maybe even a few in noble houses deeply tied to their ancestors.
Clerics of the Forge common among dwarves and worshippers of Gond and that Mulan God of Earth I forget his name.
Clerics of the Grave Common among worshippers of Kelmvour and Jergal and naybe Mrykul.
Horizon Walker common in the Yuirwood, Evermeet, the remains of Myth Drannar/Shade, Calimport, and the part of the Feywild with the portal to the Far Realms.
Gloomstalker common in underdark cities and surface cities/towns frequently raided by Drow/Illithuds/Deurgar.
Monster Hunter more common in cities then other rangers and undead/demon infested areas like the Cold Lands.
|
|
|
|
Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 14:27:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Both Volo's Guide to Monsters and Xanathar's Guide to Everything were excellent. Volo's in particular is the highest rated 5E book (and 6th highest rated RPG book) on ENWorld, http://www.enworld.org/forum/productforums.php?do=criticalhits&sort=rating. The Monster lore in the front section really raises the bar, especially for monsters that hadn't seen that kind of attention in D&D before (looking at you goblinoids) or how they tweaked some things for the way better (looking at you beholders who now reproduce by dreaming of themselves).
Honestly, that monster lore is a huge mark against the book, for me. When I was reading that Volo book, some of the monster lore made me regret the money I spent on the book.
Yeah some of it didn't fit the FR lore and some did, it was like it didn't know if it wanted to be FR lore or generic D&D lore. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 16:00:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Both Volo's Guide to Monsters and Xanathar's Guide to Everything were excellent. Volo's in particular is the highest rated 5E book (and 6th highest rated RPG book) on ENWorld, http://www.enworld.org/forum/productforums.php?do=criticalhits&sort=rating. The Monster lore in the front section really raises the bar, especially for monsters that hadn't seen that kind of attention in D&D before (looking at you goblinoids) or how they tweaked some things for the way better (looking at you beholders who now reproduce by dreaming of themselves).
Honestly, that monster lore is a huge mark against the book, for me. When I was reading that Volo book, some of the monster lore made me regret the money I spent on the book.
Yeah some of it didn't fit the FR lore and some did, it was like it didn't know if it wanted to be FR lore or generic D&D lore.
It wasn't the Core/FR issue for me... It was the fact that beholders literally popping out of dreams and hyenas spontaneously becoming gnolls was entirely out of left field.
Sure, there's a resemblance between gnolls and hyenas... But, IIRC, the book said that a hyena could eat from something a gnoll killed and then more gnolls would spawn from that hyena. Yeah, this is a fantasy setting, but we've had numerous write-ups of gnolls going back most of 40 years -- and so far as I know, this is something entirely new. It also makes gnolls different from every other humanoid race, since the rest rely on standard issue nookie for reproduction. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 17:06:37
|
The gnoll thing looks like that went to African folklore for some inspiration (they got oddball stuff like that - oddball to US, from a Euro-centric PoV). As I am doing my Katashaka book, some of the monsters I love (I have to say, they're very creative), and others I am like, "what are the smoking over there?' 
Like the Aigamucha - basically an ogre who's eyes are on the bottoms of his feet. I mean, whats the party supposed to do? Laugh themselves to death? I am going to have to completely respin that. But the gnoll sounds like some of the stuff I've read about their hyena-men (Not to be confused with a Hyena-Man, which is completely different sort of monster... and REAL).
The Beholder thing... just NO. That literally sounds to me like something a Kindergartner came up with. Refrigerator-artwork and all.
Too bad I like Firbolgs so much I'm still tempted... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 14 Feb 2018 17:07:11 |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 17:22:54
|
| -Over the years, I think the ball was dropped regarding Gnolls. They're a cool looking race, I think there's enough to differentiate them from generic goblins, orcs, ogres, etc., and there's enough open lore to do something with them over the years (they're one of the oldest races in existence in the Forgotten Realms, going all the way back to -30,400 DR at the very least), but nothing was ever really done with them. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2447 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 18:07:19
|
| 4e did a lot for gnolls, transforming them from mind-slaves of Yeenoghu to a fleshed out race (at least, it was true for the 4e core gnolls). However, somehow 5e devolved them into mind-slaves of Yeenoghu who spring up from hyenas (I guess this is 5e new) because reasons. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
|
|
|
Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 18:43:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The gnoll thing looks like that went to African folklore for some inspiration (they got oddball stuff like that - oddball to US, from a Euro-centric PoV). As I am doing my Katashaka book, some of the monsters I love (I have to say, they're very creative), and others I am like, "what are the smoking over there?'
Like the Aigamucha - basically an ogre who's eyes are on the bottoms of his feet. I mean, whats the party supposed to do? Laugh themselves to death? I am going to have to completely respin that. But the gnoll sounds like some of the stuff I've read about their hyena-men (Not to be confused with a Hyena-Man, which is completely different sort of monster... and REAL).
The Beholder thing... just NO. That literally sounds to me like something a Kindergartner came up with. Refrigerator-artwork and all.
Too bad I like Firbolgs so much I'm still tempted...
Their Firbolgs look nothing like traditional FR Firbolgs, they look like giant rejects from fraggle rock. The mechanics were cool, but I hated the retcon. |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2018 : 19:58:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
4e did a lot for gnolls, transforming them from mind-slaves of Yeenoghu to a fleshed out race (at least, it was true for the 4e core gnolls). However, somehow 5e devolved them into mind-slaves of Yeenoghu who spring up from hyenas (I guess this is 5e new) because reasons.
-I'm talking about Forgotten Realms specifically. There there, they've been there basically the whole time, but they're hardly there. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1487 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2018 : 08:06:25
|
| Wait, when were gnolls the mind-slaves of Yeenoghu? They have their own racial god; Captain Fuzzybritches' usurpation of Gorellik is because the gnolls are turning to him over the hyena-god. |
|
|
|
Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2447 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2018 : 09:21:29
|
In 5e, it seems.
EDIT: Wow, over 1000 posts! And I feel I'm only spamming here  |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 15 Feb 2018 09:22:20 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2018 : 23:07:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
4e did a lot for gnolls, transforming them from mind-slaves of Yeenoghu to a fleshed out race (at least, it was true for the 4e core gnolls). However, somehow 5e devolved them into mind-slaves of Yeenoghu who spring up from hyenas (I guess this is 5e new) because reasons.
-I'm talking about Forgotten Realms specifically. There there, they've been there basically the whole time, but they're hardly there.
Yeah, other than Thay, they don't feature much elsewhere other than "yeah, there's gnolls there". I must say that I wanted to do something with them in Katashaka, as in portraying several different variations of dog men and defining their cultural differences. I haven't done it though. I am picturing though a standard hyena-man race... a "greyhound"/"Doberman" looking race with sleek fur and pointed ears (lawful, loyal traits) ..... a shaggy/vicious "german shepherd" or wolf looking race... a collie / fox looking race (both red and grey) that are "fun loving"... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
|
|
TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2018 : 00:45:37
|
| I actually find the gnoll lore pretty awesome. Gorellik is easily explained as the true interloper, though the reverse was originally proposed. Perhaps Gorellik is just a cover for one of the Bugbear god brothers or someone else not quite as insane as Yeenoghu. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 03:24:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
you know what, that mordenkainen's book might actually have the scro in it too.....
That would surprise me, since the scro are a Spelljammer race, and they've done their best to shunt anything Spelljammer to the side... They were so determined to kick it to the curb that in 3E, they made groundling neogi -- and explicitly stated that the neogi were known for flying ships, but those were going to be ignored for straight groundling ones. In other words, "we've taken the coolest aspect of this race and removed it to make them fit into a niche they don't belong in."
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 Feb 2018 03:25:06 |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 05:20:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The gnoll thing looks like that went to African folklore for some inspiration (they got oddball stuff like that - oddball to US, from a Euro-centric PoV). As I am doing my Katashaka book, some of the monsters I love (I have to say, they're very creative), and others I am like, "what are the smoking over there?'
Like the Aigamucha - basically an ogre who's eyes are on the bottoms of his feet. I mean, whats the party supposed to do? Laugh themselves to death? I am going to have to completely respin that. But the gnoll sounds like some of the stuff I've read about their hyena-men (Not to be confused with a Hyena-Man, which is completely different sort of monster... and REAL).
The Beholder thing... just NO. That literally sounds to me like something a Kindergartner came up with. Refrigerator-artwork and all.
Too bad I like Firbolgs so much I'm still tempted...
Their Firbolgs look nothing like traditional FR Firbolgs, they look like giant rejects from fraggle rock. The mechanics were cool, but I hated the retcon.
***UGH!*** 
They literally turned the Firbolg's into Wheel of Time's Ogier!!! WTH?
I LOVED that they look like really big vikings (or very small Frost Giants.. or extremely tall dwarves LOL).
Thats not a design-decision... that's idiocy. The Goliaths are what the damn Firbolgs should have been (sans that dumb mottled skin coloration... and maybe some damn hair), and rather than fix that all (they could have just said the Goliaths were an extremely ugly offshoot), they go and turn my beloved Firbolgs in muppets.
How is it Pathfinder keeps getting things right, and D&D keeps getting things wrong? 
I simply can't map settings where Firbolgs look like that. Hell, I even like the Warcraft Furbolgs better! (They're bear-people.) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 17 Feb 2018 05:24:17 |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 22:21:00
|
| The Fibolgs from the Symphony of Ages are more like the original Firbolgs. In fact, that series was the first time I encountered firbolgs lol (I hadn't started reading Realms at that point). |
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Shadar Kai are now elves
