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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 02:16:27
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That's the way it should have been done. But now never will be. At least not by WotC.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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EltonRobb
Seeker
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 03:32:11
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
That's the way it should have been done. But now never will be. At least not by WotC.
-- George Krashos
I guess the fans have to fill the void. |
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 03:34:14
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| Indeed. I like the vision but I don't know how practical it is as a large scale community project. |
Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
Portfolio |
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EltonRobb
Seeker
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 03:42:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva
Indeed. I like the vision but I don't know how practical it is as a large scale community project.
Well, it can be done. We just need someone with the vision and someone with business sense. I'm skeptical.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 04:07:32
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EDIT2: I seem to have missed a few posts - seems like EltonRobb has said pretty-much a lot of the same things I have (and Dazzlerdal as well). My bad. 
quote:
Originally posted by EltonRobb
quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva
Indeed. I like the vision but I don't know how practical it is as a large scale community project.
Well, it can be done. We just need someone with the vision and someone with business sense. I'm skeptical.
Or perhaps an organization that is already (mostly) intimately familiar with The Forgotten Realms, has the creative resources (including many FR designers) at their disposal, and is already involved in such publishing ventures?
You know... like TEGG. 
Put some teams together, appoint a 'traffic cop', work on the main areas of interest first, and then start filling in the rest. I would make sure there was at least 6-10 ready to roll-out before initial release (so people don't think they're 'investing' in a dead-end scheme). I know of two regions that are about 70% 'ready to roll-out' right now (he'd just have to update the stuff for 5e). Cover art is a bear, and good luck finding anyone willing to 'work cheap', so I would suggest line art for the covers, or maybe the maps themselves... hmmmm... this is starting to sound eerily familiar..., with bare minimum of interior art as well. Art sells books, but its also the biggest expense up-front. Or recycle old (WotC) art. If it looks like its 'taking off', 2nd editions could be made with better art.
EDIT:
In a 'Volo's guide' style, of course. At least for the primary 'tour' books. AP's (with the finer detail) could simply be omnipotent 3rd person. Not necessarily Volo himself - we have a precedent - the Elminster's Ecologies books were done that way, using 'local guides'. I'd be using Volo's grandaughter, Volarra... or as she is derisively known in low places, 'Volotramp'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Dec 2016 04:27:15 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 13:37:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think I may have accidentally voted 'yes', even though I'm mostly a 'no'. I hit the 'see the results' button without voting, and now its not letting me vote (so I have no idea which way my vote may have went).
Anyhow, I would like to see 'something', but I don't think they should do a normal FRCG/CS. I don't think it would be something at least half the fanbase wants, and I don't think it would be all that useful to the folks running games in 5e (because their current line of AP's is adequate for that). And then we have the fact the FR fanbase is actually rather small, compared to the greater D&D/TT-RPG gamers. So we are talking about them doing a book for a subsection of a subsection of a niche hobby. Not much money in that... not enough for a large corporation, at any rate.
What I think would work is the Gazeteer-like approach, but using a digital format - $1 updates for different regions. In some cases countries (obviously Cormyr), but in others - like The Shaar - we might be able to do a 'regional' thing. Have EACH ONE done by someone who is an 'expert' on that area - like Ed (or Brian Cortijo) for Cormyr, Krash for Impiltur, Eric Boyd for The High Forest (and the Shining Vales), Steven Schend for the Lands of Intrigue (with each being done separately, of course -too much to cover, otherwise). That sort of approach could work, because the 'price tag' is negligible - people might not be willing to shell-out $50 for a FRCG, but most folks would spend $1 for individual, regional 'articles', and wind-up spending MORE in the long run. It would also keep all the relevant information (for a campaign) in one place. Perhaps a wee bit more for the 'thicker' articles (maybe two tiers - 30 & 60 pages, and maybe just have the 'crunchy bits' available as Web-Enhancements). Possibly even charge an additional $99 for a map... maybe.
And now I'm thinking... MAP. I want to see how many 'regions' would actually need to be done. I'll get right on that. 
EDIT:
P.S. - And I think we would windup with a MUCH larger 'book' when we are done - there would be NO 'cutting room floor'. There would be no need to trim them down. Quite the contrary, actually. And if someone wanted printed copies, that could be 'on-demand'.
This is essentially what I said earlier. I foresee them possibly doing this, and then after they've hit the highpoints, maybe making a collective work that's the campaign setting and tries to draw a world narrative.
On the map thing... I'm just literally looking for a confirmed map shape of the various landmasses that exist. Are we back to the scholar's view of Abeir-Toril? Did any lands NOT go back to Abeir (for instance we know that Akanul didn't and possibly parts of Tymanther didn't)? Did any lands shift (like how I was saying it might be neat to shift Laerakond elsewhere and keep it)? Is that huge land mass that a lot of us referred to as Osse still existing? What about Katashaka? Anchorome? What about the islands in the crowded sea south of Zakhara? I mean we were told that for the most part Faerun is back the way it was, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world, and as long as Maztica itself comes back, I don't see a lot of people complaining a whole lot if they modify some of the areas that didn't get any real coverage previously.
oh, and by THEY in the above, I don't necessarily mean WotC. It could be a group of fans. It could be something else entirely (like WotC possibly losing/selling the brand to another 3rd party). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 09 Dec 2016 13:52:58 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 13:43:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I had a similar idea for 4e, but with physical splat-books. We actually have far more freedom with a digital format, and can be more 'focused'. I've grouped stuff together more by what I thought would be actual content, rather than just 'geography', as has been done in the past. Some regions would be pretty sparse even with combining them, and others would be overly full (nothing really can done about Cormyr), but I think with the 'lighter' ones, I would prefer to see them get MORE treatment - more than we've had ever before. For example, I could have easily combined Murghôm & Semphar, but I'd rather see more detail, and more focus, and the two really are distinct cultures (although we've never truly seen why).
Others could be split-apart, like Chondath and Chessenta, but I'm just not seeing it - they have a shared history and culture. I wound-up with 53. but it would be fairly simple to tweak-it and get exactly 50 (or get even more, by further splitting stuff - Cormyr as one big book, or split into two smaller ones - 'Cormy proper', and the 'marches'). So basically, this is just a very rough idea, and as I said, more based-upon the amount of material I think each 'zone' would fill in a book. This is also based partially on an idea Eric Boyd and I had for moving forward with the High Forest/Shining Vale projects - we had laid-out several regions for 'future development': With the DM's guild thingie, this may actually see the light of day (and may be why TEGG has contacted me again... one can only hope). I'm picturing a 2 tier approach - 30 pages for smaller regions at 99¢, and a larger, 60+ pg. booklet for $1.99. I 'may' be WAY under-estimating the sizes here - they may {probably} need to double. I know Eric can fill a 30 pg. booklet on Evereska alone. 
Gazaeteer-Style concept map.
Map Key:
1. The Frozenfar & Icewind Dale
2. The North
3. The Illuskan Lands
4. Neverwinter Region
5. Silver Marches
6. Waterdeep Environs
7. The High Forest
8. Loudwater Vale
9. The Shining Vale
10. The Moonshaes
11. The Sea of Swords
12. Sunset Vale & The Sword Coast
13. The High Moor (& Serpent Hills)
14. The Broken Lands (Fallen Lands, etc)
15. The Fell Lands (Stonelands, Goblin Marches, Tun Lands, HoLS & Battle of Bones)
16. Cormyr
17. The Dragon Coast (including Ulthmere)
18. Anauroch
19. Sembia (+ Prespur & Scardale)
20. The Dalelands & Cormanthor
21. The Moonsea North
22. The Bloodstone Lands (Vassa & Damara)
23. Impiltur & The Vast
24. The Wild Lands (The Great Dale, Thesk, and Narfell)
25. Rashemen & the Raumvari (would include history of Raumathar)
26. Aglarond (and Altumbel)
27. Thay (& The Priador)
28. Amn
29. Tethyr
30. The Nelanther & The Dragon's Head
31. Calimshan
32. Erlkazar & The Shining Planes
33. The Vilhon Reach (Turmish and Sespech)
34. The Blade Lands (Chondath, Chessenta, Akanul, and the Blade Kingdoms)
35. Unther (& Threskel)
36. Mulhorand (& The Great Salt Marsh)
37. Murghôm
38. The Raurin (would include complete history of Imaskar, including ruins)
39. Semphar
40. The Endless Wastes (& The Great Ice Sea, Yal Tengri)
41. Lantan (would include the Whale Flukes and 'Mother of Mists' islands)
42. Chult
43. The Savage Lands (Mhair Jungles, Samarach, Tashalar, & Lapaliiya)
44. Elsir Vale (includes Channath Vale, Shaareach, Tharsult & The Bandit Wastes.
45. The Lake of Steam (would include The Border Kingdoms)
46. Halruaa (would include the Great Swamp Rethild)
47. The (Eastern) Shaar (includes the Great Rift)
48. Dambrath (would include the forest of Amtar, the Swagdar, & The Gnollwatch Mts.)
49. Luiren (might want to merge The Five Shires here, just to fill-it-out a bit)
50. The Golden Waters (Estagund, Var the Golden, Durpur, Veldorn, & fallen Thommar)
51. The Utter East (includes Ulgarth, Edenvale, Doegan, Konigheim, etc)
52. The Great Glacier & Sossal
53. Nimbral (would include 'The Beacon rocks')
We could just write-up every single country separately, and they'd get more money that way. I already separated some that perhaps shouldn't have been (it would have been easy to do a 'Shining South' treatment of Dambrath & Luiren, for example). But I was considering a LOT of things, including 'interest'. Would someone buy separate books on Turmish or Sespech? I doubt it... but a 'Vilhon Reach' book sounds pretty good. Same goes for Chondath & Chessenta (although we also could have given Chesenta to the Unther book, and had Chondath in the Vilhon book, or fleshed-it-out further and give it its own book). So, like I said, I factored-in many things here, including keeping similar 'flavors' together (or separate, as I did with Luiren and Dambrath).
Larger booklets could even have a small adventure, or better yet, have a related Adventure Path also available for download around the same time. Gazeteer + AP + Map = $3... not too shabby, given the size of the potential customer-base.
On this, I'll disagree a bit. I'd rather see broader scope but possibly less particulars on the current countries. That way we get a rough idea of the things happening in the regions and it can be seen as intertwined. I don't think we need to get into the nitty gritty on all the countries all over again. Including it with an adventure that visits the 5 or 6 countries involved makes it useful immediately as well to DM's. Later, once the regions are kind of fleshed again, we could have the more specific delvings... or those things could be done through other sorts of books (such as something similar to cloak and dagger or prayers of the faithful or the cult of the dragon, etc...). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 17:31:35
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Still not getting the shear SIZE of FR, are you? Krynn's main continent could fit in 'The North'. The entirety of the Dark Sun setting could fit in the Raurin Desert. Mystara is roughly the same size, if we count all the regions outside of the main campaign area (main continent, which also includes the Red Steel campaign setting, amongst other things). Same goes for Greyhawk - the Flanaess are roughly the size of Faerûn, but the main campaign region (detailed area) is about 2/3 the size. Nentir Vale - THE 4e setting - could squeeze between the High Forest and the High Moor. And in regards to FR itself, I am only counting Faerûn, not the other 5 settings on Toril.
Despite the presence of 'High Magic', FR is still roughly a 'medieval' setting, and countries are thousands of miles apart. It makes perfect sense that an AP would take place in one, maybe two, countries. About half of all Paizo's (large, detailed) AP's take place in Varisia, which is only about 1½ times the size of Aglarond.
As I said above, I had factored-in several different things into the way I cut-up the map. A few could have been combined for brevity, but I felt they were better-served keeping them separate, for various reasons (for example, although the people of Murghôm & Semphar are racially similar, both their cultures have had very different influences over the centuries, and Murghôm is ruled by dragons now, which is pretty darned nifty). I also was thinking about 'usefulness', and 'desirability' - as I said above, I just don't see someone buying a separate 'Sespech' booklet (unless someone were to make Sespech amazing).
I'm talking about a 4-5 page 'whirlwind tour' of each 'zone'. AP's can cross these zones, and the maps can cover larger (or smaller) areas, or even have multiple maps... but those are the AP's. For this, I was thinking in terms of taking the 3e FRCS book and cutting it up into bite-sized chunks. Some areas warrant more information, some don't. I'm trying to find the 'sweet spot'; for Cormyr, 5 pages wouldn't even give you enough room for one or two sentences about each village. For Sembia, you'd be hard-pressed to find enough info to fill five pages. Thats where the creative part comes in - we'd have to scale-down the info on the really detailed areas (it is only a CG, after all), but we'd have to add some for other areas, to make them seem more interesting (ie, have people stop thinking of Impiltur as "that other Cormyr"). We really don't want to go back to the old way of thinking that some areas are 'better' than others to play in. Thats what got us the endless repetition of splats on some regions, and zero on others.
Also, we want to keep the price-point VERY low. I don't think these really should 'make money' (not 'a killing', anyway). This is the 'bait' (or 'chum' as I said above) - these little, 'read while you are waiting for your dentist appt.' booklets are just to suck people in. Interesting, short, and to-the-point. The money to be made is after a larger fanbase is established, and you can sell decent numbers of 5e Adventure paths. In fact, I have a nifty idea now how to do the maps and covers - my colored maps could be the covers (and YES, a lot of it would get obscured and lost, but thats the idea), and then have a novel-type B&W map as the back cover. I wish I had one finished already, so I could do a mock-up of that. Hmmmm... maybe I can, if I 'cheat'.
If I wasn't so busy on maps right now, I'd whip-up one of these booklets myself. It should be fairly simple - just reference all the older regional info and update it. Let the 3e FRCS be your guide. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 19:14:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Still not getting the shear SIZE of FR, are you? Krynn's main continent could fit in 'The North'. The entirety of the Dark Sun setting could fit in the Raurin Desert. Mystara is roughly the same size, if we count all the regions outside of the main campaign area (main continent, which also includes the Red Steel campaign setting, amongst other things). Same goes for Greyhawk - the Flanaess are roughly the size of Faerûn, but the main campaign region (detailed area) is about 2/3 the size. Nentir Vale - THE 4e setting - could squeeze between the High Forest and the High Moor. And in regards to FR itself, I am only counting Faerûn, not the other 5 settings on Toril.
Despite the presence of 'High Magic', FR is still roughly a 'medieval' setting, and countries are thousands of miles apart. It makes perfect sense that an AP would take place in one, maybe two, countries. About half of all Paizo's (large, detailed) AP's take place in Varisia, which is only about 1½ times the size of Aglarond.
As I said above, I had factored-in several different things into the way I cut-up the map. A few could have been combined for brevity, but I felt they were better-served keeping them separate, for various reasons (for example, although the people of Murghôm & Semphar are racially similar, both their cultures have had very different influences over the centuries, and Murghôm is ruled by dragons now, which is pretty darned nifty). I also was thinking about 'usefulness', and 'desirability' - as I said above, I just don't see someone buying a separate 'Sespech' booklet (unless someone were to make Sespech amazing).
I'm talking about a 4-5 page 'whirlwind tour' of each 'zone'. AP's can cross these zones, and the maps can cover larger (or smaller) areas, or even have multiple maps... but those are the AP's. For this, I was thinking in terms of taking the 3e FRCS book and cutting it up into bite-sized chunks. Some areas warrant more information, some don't. I'm trying to find the 'sweet spot'; for Cormyr, 5 pages wouldn't even give you enough room for one or two sentences about each village. For Sembia, you'd be hard-pressed to find enough info to fill five pages. Thats where the creative part comes in - we'd have to scale-down the info on the really detailed areas (it is only a CG, after all), but we'd have to add some for other areas, to make them seem more interesting (ie, have people stop thinking of Impiltur as "that other Cormyr"). We really don't want to go back to the old way of thinking that some areas are 'better' than others to play in. Thats what got us the endless repetition of splats on some regions, and zero on others.
Also, we want to keep the price-point VERY low. I don't think these really should 'make money' (not 'a killing', anyway). This is the 'bait' (or 'chum' as I said above) - these little, 'read while you are waiting for your dentist appt.' booklets are just to suck people in. Interesting, short, and to-the-point. The money to be made is after a larger fanbase is established, and you can sell decent numbers of 5e Adventure paths. In fact, I have a nifty idea now how to do the maps and covers - my colored maps could be the covers (and YES, a lot of it would get obscured and lost, but thats the idea), and then have a novel-type B&W map as the back cover. I wish I had one finished already, so I could do a mock-up of that. Hmmmm... maybe I can, if I 'cheat'.
If I wasn't so busy on maps right now, I'd whip-up one of these booklets myself. It should be fairly simple - just reference all the older regional info and update it. Let the 3e FRCS be your guide.
Semphar is actually ruled by Dragons as well, or it was in 4e.
But yeah FR is huge. For Contients you have a Supercontient with Faerun, Kara Tur, and Zakahara on it
You have Katashaka, Osse, Archome, Maztica, some others. You have a parrell world of Abeir. Within its Solar System is planets like Glyth. And each of these is reflected in the Feywild, Shadowfell, Border Elemental Planes, and the Border Ethereal.
Then their are the various outer planes within which are layers and with in that are dominions of Gods and all it has a finite material and immaterial purely spirit infinite part, Elemental Chaos, Demiplanes, Energy Planes which are at the farthest reaches of the Planes. Then their are far realms which are possibly laired like Onions.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 19:41:01
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I know Murghôm still is in 5e, but I thought Semphar no longer was (which I'd prefer, given that there is no need to make them the same).
Did a fast mock-up of a Cover for a theoretical Cormyr 'tour guide' for 5e. I used an old 2e map, but you get the idea - I would use one of my (or some other artist's) real ones.
Cormyr FRCG Booklet cover
And you know you are a geek/fantasy nerd/FR fan when you can type all the 'ô' and 'û' characters without looking them up. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 19:58:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And you know you are a geek/fantasy nerd/FR fan when you can type all the 'ô' and 'û' characters without looking them up.
My keyboard on my home desktop is set to US-International so I can easily type those characters, but for my work machines, I have the keyboard combos for û, ñ, and é memorized. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 20:21:30
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EDIT:Another reason why I divided things up the way I did was for the history; for example, the Illuskan lands. That would not only cover Luskan and their 'sea holdings', but also provide a history of the Illuskan (Northmen) people themselves. That way, in a Moonshaes booklet, we could just reference the Illuskan one for info on the Northmen themselves.
And now I am thinking we may need books on non-human races as well...
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I like everything about it except the edition/era.
I love the author name as well.
Its meant to 'appeal to all eras'. Hence the 'old school' FR logo and the 5e D&D emblem.
I figure at least the first two pages have to be history, and cover everything (in brief) from 1355 to the current date. Fortunately, there isn't much we have to put in for 4e, so its just a synopsis of 1e/2e/3e and then the 5e update. As I've said earlier, Cormyr would have to be 10-16 pages, just because of all the settlements and the history.
And I am now thinking on EltonRobb's '8 pgs. per dollar'. Perhaps the 99¢ booklets could be around eight pages, and the $1.99 ones could be around 16. Also, it would be possible to further sub-divide some of the better known areas, as I have already done with The North. Maybe divide Cormyr into TWO separate books - the settled lands, and the 'frontier'. That way, we could just keep a single pricing (and they'd save a penny!)
Also, people aren't going to be expecting much - if any - art at those page counts. Just a front and back cover (and as you can see by what I did there, thats a simple fix as well).
I purposely put a fake name on it, because people always find the stuff I post through searches, and I don't want anyone thinking thats a real book and asking about it (for example, if I put my own name on that, I would have gotten PMs about it for the next century). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Dec 2016 20:29:51 |
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 20:45:56
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| But then you also flood the market with the smaller projects - an effect your already fighting to be noticed amongst the background of. People will only find these booklets by specific link or by searching directly for one. Best way to sell a product on the DMsGuild is through keeping it on the front page for as long as possible - and if not, you want something easier to find which means fewer links to different projects. Either way, the long term goal works better with a single product. |
Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
Portfolio |
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Bravesteel
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 21:24:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva
But then you also flood the market with the smaller projects - an effect your already fighting to be noticed amongst the background of. People will only find these booklets by specific link or by searching directly for one. Best way to sell a product on the DMsGuild is through keeping it on the front page for as long as possible - and if not, you want something easier to find which means fewer links to different projects. Either way, the long term goal works better with a single product.
On the other hand there is something to be said for the "series effect" where sheer volume of production brings a large amount of notice, as long as the quality is maintained.
I think this is a great idea, we could set up an oversight board and publish the minutes in the forums. In my mind any profit should go into the upkeep of Candlekeep itself.
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I loved to read and to write, but then something happened. As I made my way through school, I kept getting handed books to read that didn't excite me and didn't even remotely connect to the realities of my life.- R. A. Salvatore
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Edited by - Bravesteel on 09 Dec 2016 21:30:07 |
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EltonRobb
Seeker
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2016 : 22:39:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Bravesteel
On the other hand there is something to be said for the "series effect" where sheer volume of production brings a large amount of notice, as long as the quality is maintained.
I think this is a great idea, we could set up an oversight board and publish the minutes in the forums. In my mind any profit should go into the upkeep of Candlekeep itself.
Only thing worthwhile for the money is that it works for the upkeep.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And I am now thinking on EltonRobb's '8 pgs. per dollar'. Perhaps the 99¢ booklets could be around eight pages, and the $1.99 ones could be around 16. Also, it would be possible to further sub-divide some of the better known areas, as I have already done with The North. Maybe divide Cormyr into TWO separate books - the settled lands, and the 'frontier'. That way, we could just keep a single pricing (and they'd save a penny!)
I'm sure I didn't think of that. I'm sure it was Alexander Clark that brought our attention to eight (8) pages per dollar. I'm only saying that it could work as smaller books around Alexander Clark's page count. |
Edited by - EltonRobb on 09 Dec 2016 22:40:08 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2016 : 18:29:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva
But then you also flood the market with the smaller projects - an effect your already fighting to be noticed amongst the background of. People will only find these booklets by specific link or by searching directly for one. Best way to sell a product on the DMsGuild is through keeping it on the front page for as long as possible - and if not, you want something easier to find which means fewer links to different projects. Either way, the long term goal works better with a single product.
Not sure how the DM's Guild algorithms work, but its a fairly simple fix. If we could put some sort of broad-spectrum label on all of them, or - better yet - have TEGG involved, so that their banner gets slapped on it, which would give the whole thing far more clout
I was never thinking in terms of 'homebrew', or even a 'community project', I was always thinking in terms of WotC themselves (or a licensee) doing it, and it all being official. Not sure how that would work - I am completely unfamiliar with the rules of the DM's Guild. I may just prefer to avoid that path altogether, if it 'lessens' the acceptability of the work. This all started out as an alternative to a FRCG book, so I never meant for it to be a 'fan work'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2016 : 19:42:23
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My recommendation for a broad spectrum label would be that of the in-realm organization of "the Heralds", especially if the goal is to record Realms history.
As far as getting TEGG involved - that would be fun. You'd have to run the ideas by more people but it also means you can try bartering with the artists for work-trades regarding the other settings. The traditional ROI is pretty low with the DMsGuild, but I can tell you I personally would love to illustrate FR especially if that meant x, y or z would be taken care of or whatever the case may be. In theory, it would open up more options to get around the low ROI. |
Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
Portfolio |
Edited by - Adhriva on 10 Dec 2016 20:00:15 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2016 : 20:52:11
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Or keep it in house as the Candlekeep Compendium...
The unwashed masses was why WotC nuked the Realms in the first place.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 10 Dec 2016 20:53:19 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2016 : 03:25:49
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Brimstone... you just gave me an idea! 
What if... the Candlekeep Compendium became something we did collectively for the DM's Guild? I think that removes all the reasons why we had for not pursuing a new one in years.
And then CK can keep all the proceeds for 'maintenance' (lord knows this place needs a facelift). What say ye, oh mods on high?
BTW, NOT talking about a 'Tour of the Realms' project here, but rather, the same old CKC's that were done in the past. Now, if we could figure out a way of combining the two - say, do one updated region per CKC, that might work.
And if they re-did the older issues and released them on the DM's guild as well ('pay what you want') that would be awesome. I'd love to go back into my one article and re-write certain bits (those names are gawd-awful, in hindsight). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Dec 2016 02:59:43 |
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Bravesteel
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2016 : 23:44:26
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| What if the CKC was revived for the DM'S Guild and then, separately, there was a series for going into detail about regions, something along the lines of Candlekeep Compendium Presents: Cormyr. I don't feel like burying an extensive region-by-region project in the CKC is a good idea. |
I loved to read and to write, but then something happened. As I made my way through school, I kept getting handed books to read that didn't excite me and didn't even remotely connect to the realities of my life.- R. A. Salvatore
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Edited by - Bravesteel on 11 Dec 2016 23:46:28 |
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2016 : 23:45:53
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| You'd still have to find and get permission from all the attributing authors of those articles. |
Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
Portfolio |
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Bravesteel
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2016 : 23:48:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva
You'd still have to find and get permission from all the attributing authors of those articles.
Only if we wanted to put the old CKC up. I think it would be smart to simply revamp it from the ground floor and any authors that want to refresh their old CKC articles for the new version could do so. |
I loved to read and to write, but then something happened. As I made my way through school, I kept getting handed books to read that didn't excite me and didn't even remotely connect to the realities of my life.- R. A. Salvatore
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EltonRobb
Seeker
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2016 : 00:37:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Bravesteel
quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva
You'd still have to find and get permission from all the attributing authors of those articles.
Only if we wanted to put the old CKC up. I think it would be smart to simply revamp it from the ground floor and any authors that want to refresh their old CKC articles for the new version could do so.
This could work. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2016 : 03:06:26
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| I'm always up for more and more FR Lore. I've been very pleased with WotC using FR as the core setting making sure to have loto of familiart things which leads in to the upcoming movie better (like with characters for Marvel movies) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2016 : 03:11:07
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Yeah, I really like this - get the CKC running again. Maybe produce a 'best of' volume first, to test the waters, which would really be us just taking whatever articles we can find the authors for and maybe slapping a fresh coat of paint on them.
Maybe have 2-3 returning 'columns', that we could start in this one - "Current Clack", "Eyes on..." , etc, that would be brand new.
quote:
Originally posted by Bravesteel
What if the CKC was revived for the DM'S Guild and then, separately, there was a series for going into detail about regions, something along the lines of Candlekeep Compendium Presents: Cormyr. I don't feel like burying an extensive region-by-region project in the CKC is a good idea.
As I said above, I would prefer the gazeteer-style treatment of The Realms (in lieu of an actual FRCG) to be done by WotC themselves, or at least, more fully backed by them than the DM's Guild, and that could possibly be achieved through TEGG, if they were willing. Their resources may already be stretched a bit thin, though. I don't want such a thing being done here, as 'fan work', because the whole point would be lost (an OFFICIAL update/CG of FR for 5e).
And, of course, we could feature short stories (in a CKC) as well, by some of our known authors, but that would have to be a separate 'deal', because they may not want to provide material that would only benefit the operation of Candlekeep. So long as each volume has its share of 'crunchy bits', it might be a way of slipping that stuff into the DM's Guild. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Dec 2016 03:15:59 |
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Bravesteel
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2016 : 04:04:33
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkustayAs I said above, I would prefer the gazeteer-style treatment of The Realms (in lieu of an actual FRCG) to be done by WotC themselves, or at least, more fully backed by them than the DM's Guild, and that could possibly be achieved through TEGG, if they were willing. Their resources may already be stretched a bit thin, though. I don't want such a thing being done here, as 'fan work', because the whole point would be lost (an OFFICIAL update/CG of FR for 5e).
I suppose I understand where you are coming from, unfortunately the only "Official" update would have to come from WotC which puts us all right back to where we were when this thread went slightly off-topic. I feel like an "official" update would pale in comparison to a well organized fan-update to the Realms. Just my opinion.
Edit: I, of course, understand that TEGG doing something would be as close to official as possible, but why leave it there? Since the original grey box first came out the Realms has belonged to all of us (in spirit if not IP rights). |
I loved to read and to write, but then something happened. As I made my way through school, I kept getting handed books to read that didn't excite me and didn't even remotely connect to the realities of my life.- R. A. Salvatore
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Edited by - Bravesteel on 12 Dec 2016 04:07:27 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2016 : 09:02:27
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| I voted No. I'm happy with the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide and don't see a need for a Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. Of course, guides for other regions would be welcome. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2016 : 15:29:59
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| I voted yes but I'm well aware of the fact that getting one for the whole setting just isn't profitable for them right now. WotC's release schedule is very specific and tailored to their Adventure Paths. Storm King's Thunder, Prince of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, etc. ALL are adventures for players that are set in the Realms that all have regional information and that's intentional because they WANT you to use their books, their rules, their stuff and not just take a regional thing (devoid of edition-based rules) and switch to Pathfinder or RIFTS or even an earlier version like 4e, 3e, or a TSR version. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2016 : 16:16:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I voted yes but I'm well aware of the fact that getting one for the whole setting just isn't profitable for them right now. WotC's release schedule is very specific and tailored to their Adventure Paths. Storm King's Thunder, Prince of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, etc. ALL are adventures for players that are set in the Realms that all have regional information and that's intentional because they WANT you to use their books, their rules, their stuff and not just take a regional thing (devoid of edition-based rules) and switch to Pathfinder or RIFTS or even an earlier version like 4e, 3e, or a TSR version.
That goodsir, is a very telling point. I even moreso understand why they're doing this as adventures that contain regional info, and I think that's their method moving forward, until they've done enough regions to consolidate data into a campaign guide later. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Do you want a 5e FRGC
