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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Oct 2016 : 22:35:02
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AuldDragon - that final quote is of Sleyvas, not me. 
I'm personally leaning toward the even weirder connection of the Aesir actually being the Assura of Vedic traditions. I think that some time in the DISTANT past there were two technologically advanced cultures that warred on each other, and probably wiped each other out (and if you think that can't happen, than you haven't been reading the news lately). There are multiple parallels between their mythology, taken from opposite viewpoints. Either other, less-evolved human cultures bore witness to that conflict and kept a verbal record of it, or the survivors did (after 'nuking' themselves back into the stone-age). Although all of this is part of a rather obscure offshoot of RW 'ancient aliens' theory, I think there is a grain of truth behind it - I study many different mythos and I find a LOT of connections and nigh-unbelievable coincidences between specific myths.
Heres one page that discusses some of this. This page avoids the 'ancient astronaut' portions of it, though, and concentrates more on the more conventional links between the two.
So we strip-away the techno-trappings behind some of that (reminscent of the Stargate series), and apply it to D&D and mythology, and just say we have two 'families' (pantheons) of deities that have been fighting with one another on multiple worlds for dominance. It actually makes more sense within the magical, D&D framework.
In other musings of mine, I've connected some of the Vedic traditions to those of the Celts (and Elves, by extension), and have also connected a bit of Norse mythology to the Orcish Pantheon ('fierce barbarian raiders' culture), and we have a definite (D&D) juxtaposition of the Elf & Orc (Goblinoid) pantheons, which all leads me back to some antideluvian* 'War of the Gods' that eventually drew in ALL of the pantheons, taking sides (much like our modern 'World Wars'). In my 'Theory of Everything' I have it where it all started with a conflict between the (Planer) Giants and their 'offspring', the Dwarves and Dragons (Dragons were created from Dwarves, as per some old, RW folklore). As the war progressed, and parts of the 'First World' (Midgard) was destroyed, other Powers were sucked into the conflict. In fact, many of today's 'pantheons' may be whats left of those early deific factions. BTW, those early (proto-)dwarves were all size-changers, and also based loosely upon the dwarves in the movie Time Bandits (The Titans were building the world, using the dwarves for the 'delicate' work, and the dragons as 'construction equipment').
As for the N'asr being Jergal - I'd have to agree (or some other 'ebil god' we don't now about). I've found other, anachronistic entries like that in other stuff. It seems some designers who worked on very specific 2e splats didn't bother to actually study FR history - I've found ancient mentions of 'Cyric' in K-T stuff as well, which isn't possible. Someone just looked at the current pantheon (at that time), and ported-in whatever gods fit, not understanding the ToT or anything else, for that matter. There are other, non-divine examples of this sort of slip-shod writing/designing as well (the Ring of Winter portrays 1000-year old Cormyr as being EXACTLY like 1e/2e Cormyr, which is utterly ridiculous - the book should be retconned to 'a century ago'). But I digress...
I only pointed-out the interesting (auditory) similarity between 'Kalevala' and 'Valhalla' because both are the places where 'the good guys/gods' came from in their respective religions, both fighting against 'ebil dark forces' from outside (and I have another theory/connection between crones & Giants, so that all works out splendidly, from my point of view). So that wasn't so much as a "I think RW that the two are connected', as my own musings (homebrew) as part of my 'Theory of Everything'. In some of my earliest work, I had two groups around the Great Ice Sea -one reminiscent of the Finns, and the other, the Norse. I dropped that when i learned FR's Northmen are from 'elsewhere', but now I'm leaning that way again. I might be able to revive that lore somehow, shunting some of it back into my 'proto-world' (Midgard) stuff. I can imagine a 'City of the Gods' called Kale's Valha (Kale's Hall), that broke into two separate pantheons after a disagreement (Which side to take in the Giant War?) And in case you haven't all noticed, a LOT of what I do are 'mental exercises', and I've abandoned many of these 'thought trains' over the years. I just like to see where some of them take me. 
*I am not using the term 'antideluvian' here in the 'Biblical' sense, but rather, as more of a term indicating 'before our world began' thing. Probably even before time, and definitely before death came into the world. So I suppose I AM sort-of referring to it in the Biblical - if not literal - sense, in that I am referring to that 'First world' that existed before the new one replaced it after a cataclysm (and now that i think about it, it would be quite easy to spin all of that to work within MY own mythos - the 'primal seas' (Maelstrom) rushed-in when the First World was destroyed). It also happens to fit FR's 'Sundering', as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Oct 2016 22:43:32 |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2016 : 08:34:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
AuldDragon - that final quote is of Sleyvas, not me.
I'm personally leaning toward the even weirder connection of the Aesir actually being the Assura of Vedic traditions.
Whoops, sorry, my cutting-and-pasting-without-double-checking got the better of me! :) I corrected the post.
As for the Aesir and Asuras, they are indeed etymologically connected. Anyway, my comment was just about clearing up real-world misconceptions. I hope I didn't come across as dictating what you should or should not connect in-game. :)
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2016 : 10:11:10
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Nope, absolutely not. I just wanted to make sure the proper person was credited for whatever was said.
And as long as we are tossing-about gods and pantheons willy-nilly, Hermes is especially interesting - he has been in most pantheons (including several African) under one guise or another. His following even survived into the Middle Ages, despite the best attempts of the church to squash it (and may yet survive today). I find stuff like that fascinating. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Starshade
Learned Scribe
Norway
279 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 16:51:22
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| I think Markustay could be correct in connecting norse Aesir and Asura from the Vedic religion, but I prefer to expain it with the religious study of Proto-Indo European religion, and the work done in comparative linguistic of god names in prehistoric religion. The split in two god fractions who battled could well be ancestral to some mythological and religious core group, and its even "possible" the Finnish Uralic/Finno Ugric Language tree branched off from an ancestral language long before proto Indo European, but ALL of this is highly theoretical, and the last one, probably the weakest theory I listed. |
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Chessentan Language
