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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Aug 2016 : 03:37:30
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If you're a fan of Thay, particularly prior to the Spellplague, and you're looking for more in-depth fun in the region, I would like to invite you to my blog. I've run an evil campaign there for a few years, which led me to create a good deal of material I wanted to share with others. It's also compelled me to explore it from the street-level view to the greater overview.
It goes beyond the canon and doesn't attempt to keep up with everything that's been established about Thay thus far, but I'm having fun with it and hope it is fun to read. You can start with the "introduction" category if it helps. Happy gaming! =)
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Kismet's Dungeons & Dragons * World of Darkness * Gamer Gathering |
Edited by - KismetRose on 13 Aug 2016 03:47:27
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2016 : 16:21:07
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| Thank you for your work on Thay. There are many fans out there who appreciate this kind of detail that we can use in our own work. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2016 : 15:39:43
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| I liked your designing evil blog. It so much speaks to me of how they ruined Thay in 4th edition by making it the epitome of just such awful evil that I can't picture any living person wanting to stay there. You have to make a place evil, but not despicable. There should be some shining aspects to it (which is why I always focused on the "Freedom in Research" and just general "Freedom" aspect of Thay... of course, this Freedom is only for those who can take and hold it). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2016 : 21:02:58
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I'm glad you've read it and found something that stood out for you! I have very different aims in designing evil than official outlets tend to, but I find it helps to have a variety of viewpoints available for a game, so I try to share other ways to look at things. But I don't take canon as the last word but as a jumping off point, and I look for aspects that could use more detail.
It seemed like Thay was being developed in a more fruitful direction for a little while, especially since it quit trying to throw undead armies at its neighbors repeatedly (and failing each and every time). There were the enclaves. There were the efforts to funnel resources into the Unther/Mulhorand conflict. There appeared to be some real strategizing going on. But then it seemed like they didn't know what to do next, and couldn't allow Thay to be at all unified. The country was too structured and powerful and - well, successful - for that state of affairs to continue. Because it relied on evil means, it had to implode and be torn apart, if not to provide drama then to reinforce the punishment of evil. (The same thing was done to Luskan.) These were just my impressions of what I've read over the years.
Since I started my own game in Thay when it was at its height and fell in love with creating things for it, I had no use for the more recent plot changes in official materials and didn't use them. But that's how many games turn out. I have had a great deal of fun writing for the blog and would like to provide an alternative and some rich details to work from, no matter which version of Thay you're running. |
Kismet's Dungeons & Dragons * World of Darkness * Gamer Gathering |
Edited by - KismetRose on 07 Sep 2016 16:51:42 |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2016 : 17:27:34
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Yeah, I fell in love with Thay when it first came out. Then when they developed the Old Empires, it just made that area "spark" for me. Here were the slaver lands, and they were unapologetic about it.
Personally, with Unther back, I've got it in my head that they will also again be a slaver country (and they probably were in Abeir... and may have brought over many "broken" slaves from other races upon their return), unlike Mulhorand which has developed a case of "slaver's guilt" over their recent rulership by the High Imaskari.
By the way, while I love Thay and my first instinct when the DM's Guild came out was to dive in and try to fix all its problems (and I still want to, but I don't want to do it a disservice), I've also come to realize I need to get back into the practice of writing up complete designs like I used to do back in 2nd and early 3rd edition. Ten+ years of doing the odd piece of crunch here and there has left me a little rusty. So, rather than trying to fix Thay itself, I've decided to take a stab at fixing "remote Thay". Basically, I'm positing that there were enclaves of Thay that actually transited to Abeir (and where this happened, the places were left in ruins on Toril). We definitely know that two such enclaves are documented in Cimbar and Soorenar (and Soorenar is a near and dear place in my heart when it comes to Thay and Velsharoon). I've also posited that up near Fort Flame in Anchorome, the beleaguered mercenaries allowed the red wizards to plant an enclave (because A- they couldn't stop them and B- having a nearby settlement of wizards can prove helpful when you're being assaulted by natives). So, since we don't have any references of the "Returned Abeir"/Laerakond continent being near any other landmasses like Anchorome (which was connected to Maztica physically and theoretically could be called the same continent) or Katashaka.... I'm assuming that both areas transferred to Abeir during the spellplague as well. I'm throwing in a bunch of other stuff, and I don't want to reveal too much, as its changing in my head still. But, in the end, I hope that maybe there's a way to shoehorn in another remote version of Thay that may be somewhat true to its general principles, but with a new face. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2016 : 19:21:07
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I started working on my own vision for Thay in 2009 when I finally had the chance to run a game there and I loved it, but found issues and silences I wished to rectify, at least for my own purposes. I understood and respected that the official materials had their own aims for Thay, and it's their property, but one of the great things about gaming is that each DM or group can develop their own version of a setting. I had a feeling that other folks might enjoy where my urges tend to go in regard to the nation, and hoped to provide more possibilities.
It's taken me a long time because of other things in real life continually interrupting me, but this blog has allowed me to get more done in short bursts, not just for a game session but in a wider view. I no longer try to match up with the canon or with what other folks develop unless it strikes me as the right thing to do. There's no way for me to keep up with it all, and in the end there's little need. For as calculating as the blog can be, I follow my instincts, guiding philosophy, and guiding themes in design like this. I strive for internal continuity if nothing else, and for nuance in everything, including the portrayal of evil. |
Kismet's Dungeons & Dragons * World of Darkness * Gamer Gathering |
Edited by - KismetRose on 07 Sep 2016 19:21:55 |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2016 : 14:19:35
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Kismet,
There is one thing that I can also recommend for development that hasn't seen the light of day. There was some kind of "artifact" that "extended power to those pledged to the red wizards". It became dormant following the events of the Time of Troubles. Originally I had thought to make it something like what was done with Glantri and its power source, but I realized later that this was some kind of cheap copy. Later, I came up with other ideas.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_printer_friendly.asp?TOPIC_ID=19411
What kind of things can you think of to either tweak and/or improve upon this idea? One of the things that came to my mind was the idea of pact magic users actually linking to this "artifact" long ago. Possibly this "black star" isn't an avatar of Azuth at all, but possibly some Primordial entrapped in Thay.
This entry from the 2e Forgotten Realms Adventures page 127
"Prior to the Time of Troubles, the Red Wizards wielded greater magical power than they do now. This was due in part to a magical artifact operating within the
depths of Amruthar that extended power to those pledged to the Red Wizards (this artifact became just one more pawn in the massive human chess games engaged in
by the Zulkirs and Tharchions). During the magical chaos of the Godswar the device was either deactivated, stolen, or destroyed; in any event, its benefits to the
Red Wizards were lost. The Red Wizards in the post-Avatar Realms are treated as normal mages with no special powers (or specialist mages if they belong to a particular school). This sudden reduction in power to mere human levels has badly rattled the rulership of Thay, but has also led them to redouble their devotion to
wheeling, dealing, scheming, and plotting. " |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2016 : 18:13:36
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Kismet,
There is one thing that I can also recommend for development that hasn't seen the light of day. There was some kind of "artifact" that "extended power to those pledged to the red wizards". It became dormant following the events of the Time of Troubles. Originally I had thought to make it something like what was done with Glantri and its power source, but I realized later that this was some kind of cheap copy. Later, I came up with other ideas.
What kind of things can you think of to either tweak and/or improve upon this idea? One of the things that came to my mind was the idea of pact magic users actually linking to this "artifact" long ago. Possibly this "black star" isn't an avatar of Azuth at all, but possibly some Primordial entrapped in Thay.
Thanks for pointing this out! I hadn't bumped into it before and I'll have to think it over before I know what I'd like to do with it, if anything. It seems like a way to build the Red Wizards up only to take them down a few pegs yet again, rather than a fully realized plot device. I'll throw it in my mental Crock Pot and let it stew. |
Kismet's Dungeons & Dragons * World of Darkness * Gamer Gathering |
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Lamora
Seeker
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2016 : 19:09:50
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| Hey, Kismet. Have you ever written a proper write-up of your Thayan campaign? I would love to read it if so. Reading some of the stuff on your blog has just whetted my appetite. |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2016 : 23:33:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Lamora
Hey, Kismet. Have you ever written a proper write-up of your Thayan campaign? I would love to read it if so. Reading some of the stuff on your blog has just whetted my appetite.
I'm not sure how proper it is, but what I have written up about it is on my main site, and I hope it's fun to read: http://www.dnd.kismetrose.com/ThayCampaign.html
The blog is a way to get a broader overview than just the stuff I've managed to do during our Thay campaigns. If you have any questions or suggestions for things you'd like to know about, please let me know. =) |
Kismet's Dungeons & Dragons * World of Darkness * Gamer Gathering |
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redking
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2016 : 17:33:19
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| KismetRose... the name sounded familiar... and then it hit me. I've seen some of your VtM stuff, and I liked it. Your Thay stuff is very good too. Thanks! |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2016 : 18:31:32
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quote:
Originally posted by redking
KismetRose... the name sounded familiar... and then it hit me. I've seen some of your VtM stuff, and I liked it. Your Thay stuff is very good too. Thanks!
I've been around and about for a good while now. I keep my sites up as resources for others, and I'm glad you've enjoyed what you found enough to recall it! Thanks for reading the new Thay blog, as well!  |
Kismet's Dungeons & Dragons * World of Darkness * Gamer Gathering |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2016 : 02:05:19
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| I like that you put a link in there to Handsome Rob's DMs Guild map. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2016 : 02:27:51
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and a very well done article. It really showed the path of a slave marching into Thay in a way I'd never pictured before.
If you're up for ideas for articles.... I'd noted at one time when looking at Rob's map that Sulriana and Cidas would appear to be pirate cities, based on the below from spellbound as well.
"A few small pirate settlements dot Thazalhar's coastline, home to corsairs who prey on seaborne trade. The tharchion of Thazalhar sends his forces on occasional raids against the pirates, but these are invariably gone by the time the Thayans arrive."
What do you think these pirates would be like? I'm picturing slaver/pirates.... possibly working mostly against Mulhorandi forces, and using the border as a means to protect themselves... so possibly somewhat in the pocket of the Thayans (and possibly the reason they're always gone is they get the heads up from paying off the local authorities).
Do you see these two cities in competition? Working together? Or maybe you see these as fortified cities and the pirates actually hole up on the outskirts of these. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2016 : 03:02:40
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I like that you put a link in there to Handsome Rob's DMs Guild map.
Oh, yes! I love that map. I won't be using everything on it but I will be referring to and incorporating aspects of it. (Rather than the sheer proliferation of towns, I'll be turning some into waystations, natural features, etc.) It's fabulous and I want other folks to know about it. =) |
Kismet's Dungeons & Dragons * World of Darkness * Gamer Gathering |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2016 : 03:16:19
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
and a very well done article. It really showed the path of a slave marching into Thay in a way I'd never pictured before.
If you're up for ideas for articles.... I'd noted at one time when looking at Rob's map that Sulriana and Cidas would appear to be pirate cities, based on the below from spellbound as well.
"A few small pirate settlements dot Thazalhar's coastline, home to corsairs who prey on seaborne trade. The tharchion of Thazalhar sends his forces on occasional raids against the pirates, but these are invariably gone by the time the Thayans arrive."
What do you think these pirates would be like? I'm picturing slaver/pirates.... possibly working mostly against Mulhorandi forces, and using the border as a means to protect themselves... so possibly somewhat in the pocket of the Thayans (and possibly the reason they're always gone is they get the heads up from paying off the local authorities).
Do you see these two cities in competition? Working together? Or maybe you see these as fortified cities and the pirates actually hole up on the outskirts of these.
I'll let that percolate for a bit before I dig in. Thank you for the topic! I have some thoughts saved for a future post, and our first adventure in Thay involved their careful piracy and slave-taking, so it's not like I'll be at square one when I get around to it. Right now Real LifeTM is rather demanding, so I'm shooting for one post a week. We'll see how long I can keep that up.
Constructive suggestions are always welcome! =) |
Kismet's Dungeons & Dragons * World of Darkness * Gamer Gathering |
Edited by - KismetRose on 22 Sep 2016 03:16:48 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2016 : 13:53:13
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quote:
Originally posted by KismetRose
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
and a very well done article. It really showed the path of a slave marching into Thay in a way I'd never pictured before.
If you're up for ideas for articles.... I'd noted at one time when looking at Rob's map that Sulriana and Cidas would appear to be pirate cities, based on the below from spellbound as well.
"A few small pirate settlements dot Thazalhar's coastline, home to corsairs who prey on seaborne trade. The tharchion of Thazalhar sends his forces on occasional raids against the pirates, but these are invariably gone by the time the Thayans arrive."
What do you think these pirates would be like? I'm picturing slaver/pirates.... possibly working mostly against Mulhorandi forces, and using the border as a means to protect themselves... so possibly somewhat in the pocket of the Thayans (and possibly the reason they're always gone is they get the heads up from paying off the local authorities).
Do you see these two cities in competition? Working together? Or maybe you see these as fortified cities and the pirates actually hole up on the outskirts of these.
I'll let that percolate for a bit before I dig in. Thank you for the topic! I have some thoughts saved for a future post, and our first adventure in Thay involved their careful piracy and slave-taking, so it's not like I'll be at square one when I get around to it. Right now Real LifeTM is rather demanding, so I'm shooting for one post a week. We'll see how long I can keep that up.
Constructive suggestions are always welcome! =)
I'm just intrigued to find someone else who loves Thay as much as me, and I like to see your twists on things. BTW, on your slave road article, I do note one thing that is very different from my version of Thay (and your own from your weathernet article). When I first read it, I was like "yeah, that picture is great", but it also doesn't mesh with the idea that much of Thay is basically a garden. The section I'm talking about is Delabbar to Mophur, and its one section where you say its a sandy dirt. The same concept of giant sized bones, but with lush greenery all around its base would fit well... in fact, it might be seen as providing a bone meal to the soil.
I really liked the idea of these statues of local Thayan heroes along the slave road as well. After thinking about it, a good add as well is that over time many of these statues have either been replaced or upgraded by lesser golems (for instance the Thayan golems which are archers, or simple caryatid golems, or just simple animated armor and flying swords in the hands of the statues, or occasionally a helmed horror/runic guardian, etc...)
Oh, and just a little twist from our world.... every once in a while, little signs along the road that say "This section of the High Road maintained by <insert name of a wizard, guild, school of magic, etc...>". Also, have the slaves periodically passing apprentices who are sent out to cast bluesteel/anti-rust/mending/waterproofing enchantments on those statues by the aforementioned, who also have slaves keeping down the greenery and gnolls/orcs/centaurs/ogres/minotaurs with whips watching over them. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 22 Sep 2016 14:03:29 |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2020 : 05:07:05
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Seeker KismetRose,
First of all, thank you for your contributions! They are well received, and quite enjoyable to read!
I wanted to know if you've done any work on identifying by mapping, or otherwise, tax stations throughout Thay? I am working on economic development of Thay, in a formal sense, and no point in reinventing the wheel on State income if I can access something well done to date.
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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KismetRose
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2020 : 20:24:19
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Hello Robert! I'm very glad you've enjoyed what I've done for Thay.
I can't say that I have mapped out tax stations, since that hasn't been a focal point of my game. I suggest that you get HandsomeRob's map of Thay: https://www.dmsguild.com/product/181402/Map-of-Thay. You can turn some of its new locations into tax stations, since he added many that are not in the official books, so they're up for grabs as far as development goes. It's also a way to save some labor.
I hope to see what you come up with! |
Kismet's Dungeons & Dragons * World of Darkness * Gamer Gathering |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2020 : 03:45:32
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| Yeah that map is the BEST I've seen for Thay. I wish the entire Realms had been done in that much detail. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2020 : 06:48:57
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Seeker KismetRose,
First of all, thank you for the response! :)
Second of all: I am shocked at the profound awesomeness of HandsomeRob's map of Thay. I am buying that right now!!!!
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by KismetRose
Hello Robert! I'm very glad you've enjoyed what I've done for Thay.
I can't say that I have mapped out tax stations, since that hasn't been a focal point of my game. I suggest that you get HandsomeRob's map of Thay: https://www.dmsguild.com/product/181402/Map-of-Thay. You can turn some of its new locations into tax stations, since he added many that are not in the official books, so they're up for grabs as far as development goes. It's also a way to save some labor.
I hope to see what you come up with!
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Kismet's Guide to Thay
