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Lurkwood
Acolyte
2 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jun 2016 : 01:16:54
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Hello FR sages,
Long time lurker here, but with the advent of 5th Edition (enjoying the game changes) I have been motivated and writing an adventure for Forgotten Realms. Specifically the a trek starting North East of Longsaddle/East of Griffons Nest, moving north through the eastern 1/3 of Lurkwood and straight on up to the Mirabar River area. I could use some direction and advice specifically in the lore/info for this region.
The goal is an outdoor/wilderness themed adventure, growing up in the sub artic, I want to do justice to the wild Taiga forests, Tundra and Bogs (even the mosquitoes). Ideally it would be quality enough to be worth publishing on DM's Guild and so am modeling the formats/styles to match officially published modules. Regardless for my personal edification I would like to have a well written/lore accurate adventure for my group.
Additionally it seems both a blessing and a curse that this section of the Savage Frontier map has sparse details in the few sources I do have (1e FR5 - Savage Frontier). I tried the FR wikia which had some info but was really hoping to find the name(s) of some purchasable primary source books that would have specific and most up to date (closest to 5th Ed) info.
The adventure focuses on a small caravan traversing through Lurkwood to bypass the long road, dealing with the standard wilderness beasts and north land monsters (orcs/ettins/trolls, typical stuff). I also understand it is supposed to be filled with Bog's (I can personally attest black spruce bogs are horrific), what kind of other native creatures (e.g. snow cats?) inhabit the Lurkwood forest and bogs? What kind of old ruins/forgotten kingdoms were there?
More challenging, I have found absolutely nothing on the the land between Lurkwood and the Mirabar river, east of Mirabar itself. I presume its typical sub-arctic hills/moors/grassland. What is the Mirabar river valley really like?
Would there be any settlements (besides Orcs) out there, maybe a dwarf/barbarian/human mining settlement? Where exactly is the Valley of Khedrun, is it north of the Mirabar River nestled against the Spine of the Word, or does it span the south side of the river?
Any advice or direction would be most appreciated. Despite this being a first post, I have enjoyed the quality of posters and information available on these boards for some time now.
Gratefully,
A Fellow DM.
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2016 : 14:25:08
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The only source you're going to find on Mirabar and the other areas you're mentioning in 5e is of course the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. I looked through that, and it covers Mirabar, although not much around it. (Which is pretty typical, the SCAG is very sketchy in a lot of ways.)
So, back to other sources. None of the 4e sourcebooks touch on that area either. The closest the FR Campaign Guide, Player's Guide, and the Neverwinter Campaign Setting get is Luskan, and that's not much help.
Back even further. The 3e FRCS notes that the Lurkwood teems with orcs, and Encounters in the Realms agrees with it. That was 1372 DR. Silver Marches has a bit on the Lurkwood - it's thick with orcs, ettins, giants, and other monsters coming down from the Spine of the World. The souther edge was safe enough to be logged and hunted by people from Mirabar, Longsaddle, and Nesmé. Uthgardt tribes also roam the forest - the Elk, Griffon, and Sky Pony tribes in the west, and the lycanthropic Gray Wolves in great numbers in the eastern half.
There's the 2e The North box set, which provides more details on Grunwald and Xantharl's Keep, two settlements along the Long Road between Mirabar and the edge of the Evermoors. (Grunwald is also in your copy of the Savage Frontier.) Both of those settlements are given better writeups in Volo's Guide to the North, so I'd look there first. The Lurkwood is just given the same writeup in the North as it is in the Savage Frontier, and unless I'm missing something, it's not touched on at all in Volo's Guide to the North.
There is one major site noted in the Lurkwood - the Dungeon of Death, which had its own module of the same name in 2e. That module just deals with the Dungeon itself and not its surrounding areas, however. That module did update the Dungeon of Death as a troll lair, in contrast to the hag and nabassu found in the Savage Frontier. It also notes that the Dungeon of Death was a dwarfhold from the old Gharraghaur kingdom, which fell to orcs, bugbears, and other creatures in -3611 DR. The Grand History of the Realms builds on that in turn - Gharraghaur was founded in -4819 DR by the royal house Helm near present-day Mirabar. Mirabar itself was founded in 626 DR on the ruins of Gharraghaur's capital. So in terms of ruins, you have a lot of old abandoned dwarfworks - the Dungeon of Death notes that Gharraghaur stretched from the beginnings of the Dessarin River east through the foothills of the Spine of the World north of the Lurkwood, south to the edge of modern-day Neverwinter, and west to the edge of the Savage Frontier (so at least to the Ice Lakes, I'd say.) That geography doesn't make much sense looking at it - the Dessarin is included in that area, but it makes no sense to have it as an end point. I think it means the entirety of the modern-day Lurkwood and the valley north of it are included, and then west to the edge of the Savage Frontier, and south and west to Neverwinter, giving it a wedge-shape across the North that follows the line of the Dessarin River as its southeastern border, with the Frost Hills its northeastern border.
Speaking of the valley north of the Lurkwood, that is the Valley of Khedrun. It's on your map in the Savage Frontier, and also shows up in the same place in the maps in the North. The North suggests it heads farther north, and indeed cuts into the Spine of the World, ascribing to it the mythic qualities associated with the lands beyond the Spine of the World. It has to be huge, no matter what, which is easiest to explain if you look at the map in the SCAG. See that valley area east of Mirabar? That's where the Valley of Khedrun is. See that little spur of river above the northwestern corner of the Lurkwood? That's the River Khedrun (noted on the maps in the North), which the valley must contain. It is also noted to contain the Great Worm Cavern, which is way to the east, still above the Lurkwood. I don't know what the name of that main river running through the Valley of Khedrun is, but it sure looks big. Comparatively, that's a HUGE space - it's more likely a valley when it narrows to the north and cuts into the mountains of the Spine of the World, but it looks like most of that is hilly lowlands. Like you said, there's not a lot of detail for this region, so you could spin the Valley any number of ways if you'd like. It's a good Realms design nut to crack, which is always fun. The SCAG map seems to have an extra line running along side the western edge of the River Khedrun at the left, which suggests an especially large rise there. Maybe the "valley" is the larger, flatter part hidden beyond that rise and the Lurkwood, to which the only entrance is that river flowing down into the Mirar? (Note that 5e placed Gauntlgrym near Neverwinter, so you wouldn't want to say Gauntlgrym is there for what you do with the valley, but you could certainly say the rumours are of another dwarf settlement therein, possibly something tied to Gharrahgaur as noted above.)
Oh wait, here's a wrench in the works. Lost Empires of Faerun says Gauntlgrym was founded in the Crags next to the Valley of Khedrun. But the Valley doesn't go anywhere near that far south. The SCAG map places Gauntlgrym firmly under the ridge of Mount Hotenow, and not underneath the arm of the Crags reaching towards Mirabar. So either LEoF (with the caveat that LEoF's design team didn't see the Neverwinter products placing Gauntlgrym so far south a few years later) is wrong somehow or the Valley of Khedrun stretches even farther south beyond Mirabar, possibly into the flat-land between Longsaddle and the Crags or into the Crags themselves. The other oddity is that that same LEoF entry implies the Valley of Khedrun as being south of Mirabar and the Great Worm Cavern is far away to the north, when the Great Worm Cavern is supposed to be part of the valley. Blast I thought 3e books were supposed to solve those issues, not make more.
Oh why did I go look at that. Okay, I just made it even more complicated. Dwarves Deep has about a page on Gharraghaur, which gives us better borders. So north of Port Llast to Mount Hotenow, down the River Neverwinter until it splits (probably the Gibdraw, looking at the 4e Neverwinter area map), then east along Berun's River until Berun's Hill, northeast to the River Shining, wending north through the Lurkwood and then on into the VALE of Khedrun. A Vale makes much more sense for the geographic features north of the Lurkwood, and Dwarves Deep says that the vale was named after Khedrun in honour of him. Contrast that to the entries about the Valley of Khedrun which say he discovered that area when hewing out a safe place for dwarves in the north. So let's cut this the way George likes to - the Valley and the Vale are two separate things, and the Valley is what Khedrun originally discovered when he opened a place for dwarves in the North. That valley lies somewhere around Mount Hotenow and the Crags, possibly allowing a safe hidden passage for dwarves into the interior and the safe areas along the River Mirar, where Gharraghaur eventually flourished. Then Gharraghaur named the River Khedrun and the Vale of Khedrun in honour of him, in the lands north of the Lurkwood. I think that actually works! No wait, it doesn't - the Vale is described as flanking the River Mirar on both sides. Well, that means that entry does answer your question about what flanks the River Mirar in some way, at least. You do definitely want Dwarves Deep for this information though - it talks a lot about the geography of the area of the River Mirar, and what can be found there, including some sites I'm not seeing mentioned anywhere else.
So I'd say your best additional sources are Volo's Guide to the North for information on Xantharl's Keep, Mirabar, and Grunwald, Silver Marches for information on the Lurkwood itself, Dwarves Deep for the information on Gharraghaur and the River Mirar, and maybe the North if you want to puzzle out Khedrun's Valley and put your own stamp on it.
Maybe someone else will have an insight as to the mess of the Vale/Valley of Khedrun. I've done as much thinking as I can on one cup of tea so far. |
Edited by - Arivia on 12 Jun 2016 14:25:46 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2016 : 15:42:12
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Been nosing the lore of this area so I do know that the taiga Lurkwood and the surrounding grassy Khedrun valley area is known by hunters for its antlers and dandelions, so the it's teeming with giant elk, deer and moose. I'd add a smattering of dire wolverines and badgers, sabretooth and snow tigers; foxes, winter wolves and dire wolves; grizzlies, cave and dire bears. From the mountains, dire eagles, rocs, dragons and drakes make their flights over the Lurkwoods frigid bogs and shanut pines.
There used to be several dwarfholds in the area south from the river Khedrun flowing through the Valley of Khedrun, the river that formed the northern border of the Delzoun dwarven kingdom of the North. Citadels and mining outposts such as ancient Gharraghaur (Mirabar), Ironstar (at the three peaks of the Spine north of the river Surbrin) and Mithral Hall chased after the norths prodigious amounts of mineral wealth (huge gem caves, mithral and gold deposits) trapped in its earthy layers.
The are some human made towers there, most are fallen watchtowers build by Illuskan Grand Princes or bandit lords bent on conquering Mirabar while some are surviving till the present day (such as Xantharl's Keep and Nesmé). For other constructed sites and camps I placed a tribe of shamanistic white haired gnolls following Gorelik in the eastern side of the Lurkwood, and several goblin, bugbear and hobgoblin outposts from the Khedrun vale have been erected south of the Khedrun riverbank. The tops of some hills in the center of the Lurkwood are used as butcheries by the numerous mountain orc hunters hailing from the fecund tribes in the Spine of the World.
More supernatural threats are will'o'wisps, peat-mummies and specters in the bogs; trolls and wyverns in the southern parts connecting to the Evermoors. The gnomish Castle of Illusion is rumored to be somewhere between the peaks near Ironstar and Mithral Hall and somewhere in the eastern Fell Pass. It used to be controlled by an evil human archconjurer that reinforced the castles environs with fiendish servants. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Lurkwood
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2016 : 07:20:24
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Wow, Arivia & Bladewind I am so very grateful for the wealth of information and sources you have provided, it was so much more then I could have hoped. Thank you!
Also glad to know I am not the only one feeling that there is some confusion on the geography of the Mirar river area and the Valley of Khedrun specifically. Just bought the Dwarves Deep, good snag it does have a bit of detail Gharraghaur, and if a large Gharraghaur surface fortress named Halanaskarr was just to the south of Lurkwood at the headwaters of shining creek there could be pocketed dwarfholds all in between. I do love the idea of hidden dwarf outposts of the ruined Gharraghaur kingdom, it will have to be added 
It also seems to indicate that the Khedrun Vale is indeed north of Mirar river, but details from the various sources are so sparse almost on purpose, and as Arivia so thoroughly pointed out, very difficult to piece together and maybe a bit contradictory. Makes me wish I had Greenwood on speed dial.
I am going to just play off the region north of Lurkwood as it always seems to be treated, goblin/barbarian/orc/monster territory rich in dwarven ruins filled with treasure/gems for those able to persevere.
Were there any Elven kingdoms of old in this area? I think Eaerlann borders didn't extend out to Lurkwood but maybe an outpost or isolated community lived in the forest?
Thanks Bladewind for the comprehensive list of creatures broken down by area, I will incorporate them in the adventure. Will O Wisps and Bogs is iconic in my mind but adding peat-mummies is a snappy idea. Perhaps Goblin/Orc used to perform ritual sacrifices and leave the corpses in bogs, only to rise later and most inconveniently to the players. Love bogs, always something nasty ready crawl out.
Gratefully,
Lurkwood. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2016 : 12:52:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Lurkwood
It also seems to indicate that the Khedrun Vale is indeed north of Mirar river, but details from the various sources are so sparse almost on purpose, and as Arivia so thoroughly pointed out, very difficult to piece together and maybe a bit contradictory. Makes me wish I had Greenwood on speed dial.
One on the things I love the most about the older Realms, is the mysterious, often contradictory lore we would get.
I believe that every Scribe here would love to have a "Ed Greenwood" phone. I would be willing to bet that he would give mysterious, and often contradictory answers to any questions posed!
Welcome to Candlekeep Lurk! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Lurkwood traversing adventure - questions
