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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jan 2019 : 20:39:10
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Half of the monsters in D&D -- including dragons and many forms of undead -- are stolen from real world legends. Another good chunk are stolen from other fiction -- illithids are clearly mini-Cthulhus.
Why accept everything else, but drawn the line at faeries? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2019 : 14:18:38
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Adding in a few magic items for Moray. I've got a few already and I'm tempted to have the mugs of plenty be from Moray.
The big thing is that there aren't really any wizards or spellcasters on Moray (In fact I'm intending on the wizard council of callidyrr to be the only overt spellcasters In the Moonshaes isles). So conventional magic item creation is out the window.
Now I've been experimenting with rules for alternative means of magic item creation and I'm looking at two alternatives.
First is using magical reagents in place of spells. So the gizzard of a red Dragon or the horn of a unicorn. Any creature that inherently possesses a magical quality can pass that quality onto a specially prepared item.
Second is advancement through experience. So a sword used in a thousand battles will eventually become magical and gain a quality that represents it's common usage.
Now I figure the druids are users of magic but not overtly so. I see them more as wise caretakers of the Islands who help through herblore. But there is no reason why they can't make magic using the first method.
The splintered sword (a made up item) could be crafted from the heartwood of a centuries old rose bush, dipped into the blood of rock troll and frozen in the ice of the tallest mountain on Moray.
Whereas the Sword of Moray could be made magical after a hundred years of conflict with a ffomorean and northmen raiders, giving it a magical property that improves the defence of its wielder.
Mugs of plenty are a tricky one though. The Morayans seem most likely of the ffolk to possess them (being hard drinkers like the northmen). But how would such items be created (there are more than one) without spellcasting, they could have been the original mugs of the clan hall of the MacArtth and after a thousand years of use in nightly revels the mugs will never empty of the ale known as Moray Black.
Any weird magic items people have created for the Moonshaes Isles that they don't mind me appropriating. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2019 : 17:59:46
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| I don't get the issues with Leprechauns, but if you wanted to make them different... perhaps their gold isn't standard gold. Much as how the warlock knights of Vaasa use Felliron, maybe leprechauns use some kind of fairy gold that they mine. Maybe it has specific uses. Maybe it also has some ties to radiance (and thus rainbows). Maybe these leprechauns are also protectors of "celestial stairways", charged with hiding them using magic by deities such as Leira (noting she's CN, not evil). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2019 : 19:17:29
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I've got fairies, I even gave them a ffolkish name.
Leprechauns are just a little bit too ridiculous to fit into a quasi realistic version of the realms (I like it to be lifelike and immersive).
I could go down the route of a redcap and make them murderous but that isn't what Dagdar implies
Giant flying lizards that spit fire or lightning, dead people getting up and walking around (even without muscles and tendons!), and creating any variety of effects by wiggling your fingers and saying a few words is lifelike and immersive?
I really can't understand how something like skeletons functioning the same as live people is more believable than a really short guy with some gold. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 31 Jan 2019 19:18:39 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2019 : 19:51:30
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I suppose I'm aiming for a low magic high fantasy approach.
I'm fine with dragons existing. They evolved from a wyvern like ancestor, evolved quickly due to the magic suffusing everything on Toril, and became what they are today by tying themselves to the Weave (like sarrukh, and elves).
I'm fine with undead existing, they are skeletons animated by negative which is associated with undeath.
I'm fine with leprechauns existing, but what I'm not okay with is fitting them into the Moonshaes. I get that they are associated with celtic mythology and that the Moonshaes are derived and influenced from celtic mythology but the Moonshaes are not exact analogues of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales.
Leprechauns came about in irish mythology for specific reasons and cultural beliefs that do not exist in Moray and so there is no reason for the leprechauns to exist in Moray.
I'm all about localizing magical or unique creatures. A unicorn in the Moonshae Isles may look like other unicorns elsewhere and may have similar abilities so that to the untrained eye they are indistinguishable but that does not mean they have the same origin (I got the idea from mountains orcs and grey orcs, similar races but different origins).
So fomorians in the Moonshae I've made different to fomorians elsewhere. Moonshae fomorians are actually firbolgs that have been twisted and mutated by the touch of Kazgoroth. They look the same as fomorians and have similar abilities but have a Moonshae specific origin tied to a particular event and person. Kamerynn the unicorn looks like other unicorns but was birthed by the Earthmother (which is the islands themselves). There is a hag in the Korinn Archipelago that looks like other hags and has similar abilities but is actually a cursed leshay.
So leprechauns are pretty magical and unique. I could just have them be fey sprites but what would be their purpose other than to be mischevious and horde other peoples gold (a relatively arbitrary placement without any other tie to events, people or places on Moray). Ideally I'd like something that causes the creation of leprechaun like creatures, or something that gives reason for their existence and appearance only on Moray (they are mentioned nowhere else).
Given the nature focused location I was thinking more along the lines of a water, forest or grassy type of fey that merely mimics human voice to drive them away from certain places. If its water based I could easily give the mimicry and ventriloquism abilities to the water sprites of the River Shannyth and have them use the voices to drive humans away from the river (because they hate the humans for polluting the waters and slaying Shannyth the River Queen).
But I'm always open to ideas.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2019 : 03:30:52
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Again, a lot of monsters in D&D are from real world legends and myths. So they're from cultures and mythologies which don't exist in the Realms -- yet the critters are still there.
And that includes dragons and the most common forms of the undead.
So if leprechauns are being tossed out for being tied to real world cultures, why are you keeping everything else? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2019 : 09:37:42
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Last alternative is they originate on Moray but again I can't think of any event or accident that might result in little men with personalities like leprechauns.
There can be a number of possibilities you are easily discounting. The most straightforward that comes to mind is that they are the offsprings of ensorcelled humans and fey and are seen as imperfect from the fey and outcast from human society (especially if the human in question is a northmen) and for some mysterious turn of fate they breed true with anything (human-like trait). They got the prankster attitude of the fey, human appearance, kind of a cynic attitude towards humans because they were rejected (the fey are too chaotic and flighty to actively hate/reject them) and in virtue of the fact they're some kind of crossbreed they have no problems handling metals (something the fey can't do) and so their treasure may very well be gold but any metal can do, heck there could even be a famous leprechaun blacksmith (or a team!) creating wonderful weapons or armors and then enchanting them with fey magic.
There are a lot of critters that appear in some area of Faerun with no clear explanation why they couldn't be found in other areas that have the same climate/geography so I don't see any problems in leprechauns being found only in Moray. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2019 : 10:48:42
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| See? There you go, just keep the ball spinning and some nice ideas will come, there are really a few things that can't be salvaged in the Realms. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2019 : 15:52:32
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On the idea of leprechauns being a cross-breed, while halfling do have the look, it might be better to go with forest or rock gnome instead. You could also have it that they cross-bred with some kind of even smaller fey, for instance brownies. Or in an odd twist, halfling/gnome crossbreeds with the gnomes coming from Faerie. This might fit with the beard imagery, etc... On the idea of having them be crafters with gold, I'd shy away from weapons and armor. What about musical instruments? Jewelry in the form of rings, crowns, necklaces, earrings, bracelets, etc..? What about leather working in the form of shoe making?
Or in another twist, perhaps these are gnomes or halflings that were twisted by the power of the black gem that affected the Queen of Air and Darkness. Maybe they guard a rainbow bridge/celestial stairway to that realm (or Brokenstone Vale... see below as well). Maybe they mine fairy gold in that realm and black gems with ties to the black gem, and they make jewelry/musical instruments which corrupt those who use them.
Or maybe these items don't corrupt individuals, but simply serve as spying points into the world for the QoA&D and the unseelie court. When other fey find these items they try to get them to perform scrying in reverse, to see into the unseelie court.
For that matter, it might be worth linking some myths of the isle of Moray. For instance, there's the myth of the maiden of Highpeak, who lives in a castle of glass, which none can find. Her sons left across "a drawbridge of glass" (I'm thinking celestial stairway... rainbow bridge). After crossing, they couldn't find the way back (portal close), until a savage winter storm (hmm, QoA&D related to cold). So, I'm picturing a castle made of black glass, with a banshee, in a land of perpetual darkness and cold. Maybe the leprechauns know this path and try and keep people from finding it for their own safety. The castle may also be filled with beings such as hags, and perhaps the "sons" which came into the world were actually hagspawn. Maybe these sons were lyncanthropes instead from Brokenstone Vale, and the wailing heard is the "howls" of the lyncanthropes of Brokenstone Vale. The banshee itself may have also been a hag rather than an elf, one who hid behind a façade of beauty to corrupt mortals.... or even a lyncathrope such as a foxwoman who misses her dead sons and transformed into a banshee of sorts.
Later lore (Dungeon #196, Backdrop Moonshae Isles) also has a contingent of the "people of the black blood" being on this island. It may be that the children who left the Maiden of Highpeak were themselves cursed. Maybe they were lycanthropes. Maybe the castle of glass exists in the feywild location known as Brokenstone Vale. This could work as it also mixes in the eladrin court of the stars, and might help mixing in some of the moonwell concepts.
From FR2 Moonshae Isles
'Tis the maiden of Highpeak, it is,' he announced. 'Crying for the lost souls of her children.' Upon my gentle questioning, he elaborated. The maid, according to legend, dwells in a beautiful castle of glass high in the Orcskull Range. Her castle is surrounded by a grove of enchanted fruit, fruit so blessed that none who eat of it need ever fear disease or death. The castle is separated from the surrounding mountains by wide chasms, Here the maid lived in peace, raising many fine sons.
But the sons grew restless in their isolated home, and they built a drawbridge of glass to extend to a nearby mountain. Then the sons left the castle, over the drawbridge, to explore the world. But they found that as soon as they left the castle, it disappeared behind them, and they could see neither bridge nor castle, even on the clearest of days. And so they wandered the world. They were fine, strong men, and soon found employment in the armies that fought back and forth among the surrounding lands. One by one, they died in battle, until only one, the oldest, remained alive.
Despairing for the grief that had come upon his family, he made a final effort to return to the home of his mother. At last, in the height of a winter storm, he saw the castle before him, with long bridge of glass leading toward it. Rejoicing, he set across the drawbridge, but it was slippery with ice, and he could not retain his footing. He slipped, and tumbled to his death upon the jagged rocks below.
Now, the king explained, on days of wondrous summer warmth or savage winter cold, the mother mourns for her children in a long, keening wail that carries plainly to the fields beyond the mountains. No mortal, it is said, has ever seen the glass castle or its slender bridge. But perhaps one day, say the legends, a young man or woman who is a descendant of the maid in the castle will enter the Orcskull Range, see the castle of glass, and cross the drawbridge to relieve the suffering of the mother who has grown old with the pain of her sorrow.
From the looks of the retainers, who had listened, enraptured, to the king#146;s tale, I felt certain that each was wondering if he might be the descendant who would discover the castle and bring proof to the tale. I myself was strangely touched. When the strange cry was repeated later in the night, I found myself wondering about the poor mother. I devoutly hoped that she would one day find her peace.
From Dungeon 196
The Black Blood Tribe: Although not as mighty or as organized as other power groups, another force exerts a great deal of destructive influence in the Moonshae region. A group of Malar-revering lycanthropes holds sway over the island of Moray. This group, called the Black Blood Tribe, is composed of Faerûn-born lycanthropes and those who have traveled from the Feywild region of Brokenstone Vale, a lycanthrope-infested nightmare realm. The Black Bloods attack any civilized community or group on the island, and they perform gruesome rituals aimed at bringing a divine servant of Malar to the Moonshaes to lead them. When the Black Bloods succeed
at that goal, they intend to turn the beast’s savagegaze toward the civilized islands.
from Heroes of the Feywild on Brokenstone Vale
Brokenstone Vale Deep in the shadows of a mountain pass lies Brokenstone Vale, a haven for werebeasts and shapechangers that was conceded to them by the eladrin after years of brutal warfare. According to an ancient pact between the shape changers and the Court of Stars, no creature can set foot in Brokenstone Vale without the lycanthropes' permission. If any careless traveler does so, his life is as good as forfeit. This pact also works the other way; lycanthropes that hunt beyond the vale can be slain by the Maiden of the Moon, an archfey who keeps her wary eye on them.
You come from the forested mountains above Brokenstone. By day, you hunt in the woods, farm the lower mountain slopes, or practice your trade. In their humanoid forms, the lycanthropes can be
useful (if intimidating) trading partners, and many seem good-natured and genuine. However, others eye you when you pass by as if you were nothing more than a potential meal. It is the cries of these predators that seem the strongest when the vale fills with a chorus of feral howls beneath the light of the moon. During these times when the monsters are on the hunt, painting a silver stripe across the door to your dwelling tells the shapechangers that you have silver and the protection of the Maiden of the Moon. Even the most bloodthirsty of their kind heed the sign of the stripe.
You also know that the lycanthropes will not touch the wolfsbane that grows on the slopes of Brokenstone Vale. It is said that a touch of the plant, when properly applied, transforms a werecreature into its humanoid form and prevents it from changing again until the next moon rises. Displaying wolfsbane around your dwelling usually deters lycanthropes, but use of the plant can enrage them and single you out as a target. Wolfsbane is often dangerous to obtain because aside from its toxic nature, hags and witches collect the plant for use in their charms and spells. These creatures flit like black shadows across the face of the moon while the terrible howls fill the night from below.
<snip>
This forested valley and the mine-riddled mountains that surround it are the province of were beasts of all kinds, given free range by an ancient pact with the Court of Stars. In tiny hamlets on the boundaries of this realm, civilized lycanthropes can trade with merchants under the watchful eye of werewolflord Viktor Mazan. Underneath Brokenstone Vale lies an entrance to the fomorian kingdom of Harrowhame. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 01 Feb 2019 16:01:22 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2019 : 17:36:15
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Lycanthropes I've accounted for at least in the traditional werewolf manner and the weredog and wereseals. I'm steering clear of huge armies of lycanthropes as it seems like one of those kewl ideas of 4e and I much prefer the personal and unique touch that a stalking werewolf can bring.
Leprechauns as crafters is not a bad idea. I've got music tied in heavily to the leshay and theur magic, it is how kazgoroth is imprisoned and awakened on the Moonshaes isles. The leprechaun could possibly craft musical instruments as punishment for what the first one stole. When a new leprechaun is made he must fashion his own instrument, the old one that cursed him becomes a beautiful but inert item.
Through the leprechauns I can add the bone flutes and other natural material derived instruments
If you're going for the more macabre crafting for them, what about ties to shoe making from the flesh of those they've slain. Perhaps such shoes can have one purpose and a hidden purpose. For instance, maybe they can work like boots of silence or boots of invisbility, but when a leprechaun speaks a command word maybe they can inflict the wearer with Otto's Irresistible Dance. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2019 : 03:34:18
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The moonshaes and the northern sword coast cultures pretty directly reflect the real-world areas of the British Isles and Scandinavia. The cultures are similar as well - the northment of the Moonshaes resemble the Scotts whereas Illuskans resemble viking cultures. Their interactions mirror those of real history as well, with the Scandinavians raiding on the island.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2019 : 11:28:35
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The northmen of Gnarhelm, being horse riders, remind me of the Rohirrim.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 04 Feb 2019 11:30:02 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2019 : 14:54:32
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Moving on to Norland.
I have noticed a complete lack of organization for the northmen, and they are even harder to think up than the ffolk.
The northmen appear to follow the rule of might is right. They go whaling to gain renown. They go raiding to gain renown (and a bit of money). They spend the rest of the time drinking and brawling while the weak and the slaves do the agriculture and the fishing. This type of society does not lead to longstanding organisations because anything created by a strong leader will inevitably fail when that leader dies and it is claimed by others attempting to succeed him.
I've got a Cult of Tempos, which is the remnants of the old religion that the northmen used to follow (a precursor to the church of Tempus that glorified raiding and sacrifice).
I've found details about the Knights of the Storm, a band of insurgents that follow the Storm Knight (identity unknown) who have agents on the Moonshae Isles (I figure Norheim). These guys seem like people who want to overthrow the established order and spread chaos wherever they go so that they can grow rich and have fun in the anarchy that follows. I'm betting the Knights of the Storm would find more than a few northmen willing to follow a strong leader that wants to slay the kings of the ffolk.
Anyone have any northmen organizations they have created?
As far as gods, I'd stick Valkur, Tyr, and Helm amongst them as prominent. Tyr might not have much of a following, but I would think the northmen would appreciate things like keeping honor/oaths, etc... If not Tyr, Hoar the Doombringer could also fit. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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All Things Moonshae
