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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 15:59:51
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I'm doing some research for my "home" Realms campaign and i'm trying to gather all canon on this elven subrace and it's society and culture. So far i've identified as sources the 3E sourcebook Unapproachable East, the 3E adventure Twilight Tomb, the novel Stardeep and the good old GHotR for chronological purposes.
The novel is just weird and doesn't mix well with all the rest of the lore sources, i've taken a break reading it because i couldn't find much Star Elven lore and i can't shake off the sci-fi feeling of that weird golem AI (plus why aboleths when the nilshai were right there?).
The adventure was surprisingly useful if you dig a bit, and gives a lot of examples of architecture and internal organization of public buildings plus it gives more than hints on Star Elven magic specialties (gem magic and cristalline costructs) and even insight on burial/funeral rites (albeit with a small hiccup).
The sourcebook is good and gives a lot of other clues, as many of you know, and points to the third and probably last specialty of Star Elven magic: song/sonic magic.
Putting all the pieces together i can pull off something believable except for the last bit of elusive knowledge: Star Elven religion.
Now, while Unapproachable East says clearly that the Star Elves worship the Seldarine and Corellon in particular i couldn't find any reference to any elven god in the other sources: not in the novel were it isn't (so far) well explained who posted this Star Elves with improbable office names in this prison, not in the adventure descriptions of the vast magical library of the ruined school of wizardry, not even in the burial/funeral rites passages of the adventure.
Furthermore the various 3E passages that deal with the encroaching nilshai threat specifically say that Sildeyuir is isolated and it's carefully thinking about making contact with Toril for assistance and that's something that would be really puzzling if in Sildeyuir were present clerics/acolytes/faithful of the Seldarine since i suppose the Seldarine would move their Toril based forces to help their beleaguered Sildeyuir worshippers. I'm not talking about skyships and armies from Evermeet, but even token forces of elven adventurers sponsored by Corellon or other of the Seldarine would surely be dispatched to look into the matter. Instead we get a picture of an isolated Sildeyuir with ethereal horrors going on a rampage.
To muck things more we know of the existence of the Yuir gods, worshiped by the ancient Yuir human tribesmen and by the green/wild elves that composed (with the Star Elves) the realm of Yuireshanyaar.
So, onto my questions:
- Are there more sources on the Star Elves people/culture/society?
- What gives regarding Star Elven religion? Do they still worship the Seldarine? Did they ever worshiped the Yuir gods?
- If they still worship the Seldarine, why aren't the frigging tree huggers moving their cute butts to help their beleaguered brethrens? Don't the Seldarine care for an almost extinct branch of the family (that isn't involved in any particular fratricide past catastrophe)?
- If they don't worship the Seldarine, may they have evolved into an "atheist"/faithless society were there are no clerics, just wizards, High Mages, bards and more mundane individuals with no divine influence?
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 17:31:49
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Another place to look is the novel Windwalker. It came out before Unapproachable East (which formally introduced the star elves), but Elaine has confirmed that the third elven woman that joins up with Liriel, whose name I've forgotten but is the one who isn't the lythari, is a star elf.
I know there's another 3e novel that has the main characters actually traveling into the demiplane, fighting the nilshai, and talking with the star elves, but for the life of me I can't remember what it is.
Regarding the gods, I would say that the gods are respecting their worshippers' wishes. Remember, everyone involved is chaotic good. The elven gods aren't much for enforcing their will on the elves, or picking a path for and mandating that the elves walk it. They didn't intervene in the Crown Wars until the elves asked them to, for instance.
So I'd think that the star elves are definitely still Seldarine worshippers, and that the gods are waiting for the star elves to make up their minds on how they want to proceed (and protecting the star elves' desired privacy). |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 18:08:21
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Yeah i know about Sharlarra, problem is in Windwalker she doesn't even know she is a Star Elf and later in Answered Prayers she knows but there is not much else written (as it's not really important for that short story). Sharlarra is the main reason i started researching Star Elves.
And yes, it can be as you say regarding the gods, but since the Star Elves seem bent on asking foreigners for help (like random adventurers, Aglarond, ecc...) they could send a prayer or two to their patrons. But maybe they're weird like that, or maybe i'm missing something obvious. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 18:13:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I know there's another 3e novel that has the main characters actually traveling into the demiplane, fighting the nilshai, and talking with the star elves, but for the life of me I can't remember what it is.
I'm reading it now, but I'm hazarding a guess and say book two of the Last Mythal trilogy. At the point I'm reading in Farthest Reach, they are on their way to visit the Star Elves. If I find any relevant lore, I'll try and remember to post it here.  |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 19:53:23
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| That would be the one. I was trying to remember if it was one of the Last Mythal books. It jived with what I remembered (mostly elves, high level wizard in the party), but that book is in storage somewhere, so I couldn't check. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 20:34:13
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| Given that Star Elves have more of a tendency towards being bards, I'd make that a focus for their religion. So, for instance, I'd have Sehanine Moonbow, Hanali Celanil, and Erevan Ilesere as the primary gods after Corellon. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 21:59:55
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Ah, Mithril Elves of the Realms, living in that weird demiplanar extension of some forest near Aglarond.
Their origin is somehow linked to the Imperial Elven Armada of 2E Spelljammer lore, yes?
[Edit]
Magical specialties involving gems and crystals suggests these elves might be (or at least might have once been) masters of fashioning things like sentient telkira stones.
They are called Mithril elves, I think, to just fit into the colloquial naming scheme which gives us Gold, Silver, and Copper (and, some would say, Adamantine) elves. It might just be superficial label on their cosmetic colouring and appearance - it might even be a more substantive commentary about their light and flexible temperaments or intellect or something. But the name may refer to some association with mithril craft, perhaps also with lunar aspects which are mystically associated with mithril. There seems to be no evidence that Star elves mine and forge (and enchant) mithril in any quantity, but maybe they do. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 12 Oct 2014 22:12:44 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2014 : 22:57:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Ah, Mithril Elves of the Realms, living in that weird demiplanar extension of some forest near Aglarond.
Their origin is somehow linked to the Imperial Elven Armada of 2E Spelljammer lore, yes?
[Edit]
Magical specialties involving gems and crystals suggests these elves might be (or at least might have once been) masters of fashioning things like sentient telkira stones.
They are called Mithril elves, I think, to just fit into the colloquial naming scheme which gives us Gold, Silver, and Copper (and, some would say, Adamantine) elves. It might just be superficial label on their cosmetic colouring and appearance - it might even be a more substantive commentary about their light and flexible temperaments or intellect or something. But the name may refer to some association with mithril craft, perhaps also with lunar aspects which are mystically associated with mithril. There seems to be no evidence that Star elves mine and forge (and enchant) mithril in any quantity, but maybe they do.
To my knowledge, there's no linkage between the "Star Elves" and spelljamming (although if there were such a linkage, it might explain their name). From GhotR we know that
-9800 DR Yuirwood is settled by small numbers of green elves in the aftermath of the Crown Wars.
–6950 DR
Star elves begin to gather in the Yuirwood, leaving the other elf nations behind.
–6600 DR
Yuireshanyaar is founded by star elves and green elves.
–1250 DR
Unther battles Yuireshanyaar for control of the southern Aglarondan coast. The star elves are driven back into the woods. Further Untheric expansion near the Great Rift [–6000, 316] brings this nation into conflict with the gold dwarves of the Deep Realms.
–900 DR to –600 DR
Star elves of Yuireshanyaar, foreseeing disaster, begin construction of the extraplanar refuge of Sildëyuir.
–699 DR Year of Moon Blades Clashing
The star elves abandon Yuireshanyaar for Sildëyuir. Many green elves choose to remain in the Yuirwood.
So, the original Yuir elves were the Green elves. They probably worshipped the Yuir deities and some of the Seldarine. Then, 3 thousand years later, a population of new and very civilized in comparison elves arrive from SOMEWHERE and mix in with these Green Elves. The fact that it says "leaving the other elf nations behind" makes me think they were a faction from the other elf nations. Except for their hair and eye colors, they physically resemble moon elves, so perhaps they're simply an offshoot of that race. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2014 : 04:28:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Another place to look is the novel Windwalker. It came out before Unapproachable East (which formally introduced the star elves), but Elaine has confirmed that the third elven woman that joins up with Liriel, whose name I've forgotten but is the one who isn't the lythari, is a star elf.
Aye.
Shalarra, from Elaine Cunningham's novel Windwalker, is a star elf, but she was never exclusively named as such.
Star elves were first introduced in 3e FR, namely the Unapproachable East tome. However, Elaine tells us that she obtained a copy of the manuscript for the tome from WotC and read it for continuity. Also, Elaine wanted to research ways in which she could to tie the novel more closely with the new lore on the star elves.
So to put it simply... star elves may have had a place in the Realms "before" the official release of UE, but it wasn't until the tome was available to the public that readers could finally recognise what Shalarra was when they read the entry about the star elves in the sourcebook. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2014 : 18:15:17
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| Personally, I always figured star elves actually were moon elves. It never made much sense otherwise. A few thousand years isolated on another plane is more than enough explanation for a few cosmetic changes. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2014 : 22:50:22
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| A few thousand years is less than a dozen generations, in elven terms. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 14:54:08
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Uhm well the Star Elves were identified as Star Elves already in -6950 and they were living inside the sun and moon elves community of wider Faerun (since it's said that they left the other elven nations behind). It's only in -699 DR that they segregated themselves into Sildeyuir.
I think there is something amiss either in the Yuirwood or with the Star Elves themselves since their appearance (although Unapproachable East says they are mostly similar to moon elves) seems to vary a lot between what a sun elf and what a moon elf looks like (with Sharlarra being commonly mistaken for a sun elf for example). So they seem to be kind of inbetween the two big elven families.
Also i recall reading somewhere (anyone got a reference? I'm at a loss) that the Cha-Tel'Quessir of Aglarond breed true among themselves, something that tells them apart from any other half-elf on Faerun.
May it be a Star Elven quirk? May the Star Elves be a true breeding moon-sun elves crossbreed from a time of unity among the elven subraces (before the Crown Wars).
Also there was another maybe moon maybe sun elf lass in the canon Realms that had an odd mix of apperance and race, Ashemmi, could she be another Star Elf in disguise? [blasphemy! oh well, just throwing ideas around here] |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 15:58:19
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| It's possible they were once a different breed of elves, and used High Magic to become a new breed -- we've had regular, land elves use that to become sea elves. |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 17:18:30
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Uhm yeah their coordination do makes me wonder, paired with the fact that they seem to have moved in bulk in the Yuirwood and then into Sildeyuir, it shows a unity of purpose over an entire race that's really surprising in chaotic elves. It's true that with their appearance there could be an unspecified number of them living on in Faerun and posing as sun or moon elves and then their line would end due to their relative scarcity and the "mechanics" of elven interbreeding (only one parent subrace survives).
It's also true that they sported enough High Mages to build a demiplane the size of a forest and shield it and the forest from any divination attempt permanently.
And they lived near a sarrukh stronghold (Thaymount) and sarrukh could create true breeding races (albeit only Scaled Ones) so maybe the true breeding Cha-Tel'Quessir are a product of elven sperimentation with sarrukh enchantments, maybe made to ensure their brethren green elves had a fighting chance (by interbreeding with the colonizing humans without losing completely their elven identity) against the monsters of the area (trolls, orcs, drow). After all, the monsters were kept in check and almost eradicated only when the humans arrived in the area, the green elves left to fend for themselves were losing the war(s) (as indicated by the little we know of Zandilar and her merge with Bast). |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 22:02:28
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All half-elves breed true. The child of two half-elves will be another half-elf. That's been true since 1e.
And actually 6000 years would be at least twenty generations, probably a bit more. Of course, the fact that elves can have children when they're 400 makes calculating just how long a "generation" actually is, but most would probably have children somewhere before reaching 300, which was what I was using for a ballpark number. If those generations are spent in an area that is both magic-rich and unstable, that would probably be enough to cause cosmetic changes.
This is of course applying genetics and mutations to a divinely-created and fixed race. Which means it's most likely nonsense, and I return to my assertion that "star elves" are actually just moon elves that went WAY east to get away from the Crown Wars. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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kysus
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 22:22:58
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| Some thoughts came to mind while reading this, but I was thinking that maybe the name star elf is a derivative of their original kingdom in Aglrond kinda like the Miyeritari being a reference to their kingdom. It could have started out as something like them being known as Sildeyuiri which could have translated into common as people of the kingdom of twinkling stars or something like that to being corrupted over time to star elves. And as far as the cosmetic changes that could have been a side effect of the demiplane that they may have used high magic to make. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 22:23:32
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I thought Zandilar's subsumption by Bast was a last ditch effort to save her from Vhaeraun's hostile takeover/seduction.
I wonder what was to stop him from doing the same to Bast. Obviously now she was forewarned, but I did not think she was all that powerful to begin with. |
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Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
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Edited by - Fellfire on 15 Oct 2014 22:27:31 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2388 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 06:55:57
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quote:
Originally posted by kysus
Some thoughts came to mind while reading this, but I was thinking that maybe the name star elf is a derivative of their original kingdom in Aglrond kinda like the Miyeritari being a reference to their kingdom.
Maybe, but it looks more like extension of the existing naming schemes: "Sun" - "Moon" - "Star". "Gold" - "Silver" - "Mithral". |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 14:29:44
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@ Hoondatha: regarding half-elven true breeding it seems i put too much weight into Lauzoril's thoughts in The Simbul's Gift where its said that: "Lauzoril had heard that the Aglarondan mongrels bred true in the Yuirwood, but elsewhere in Faerun, the mongrels reverted to ancestral type."
I don't know where you get your 6000 years estimate, the Yuirwood it's not an unstable place (i sincerely don't know about the scrying shield, if it was there before the coming of the Star Elves), it's just a forest. Sildeyuir has a much shorter lifespan at 2000 years (thus 1/3 of the generations you calculated).
Furthermore Star Elves differ from Moon Elves not just in appearance, and it would be a rare occurence for a completely different breed of elves to spawn into being only due to geographical considerations (heck, even the drow were magically altered). It's like saying that green elves in the High Forest and green elves of the Waeldath should have different racial adjustments and abilities because they're thousands of miles apart.
@ kysus: it seems they were called Star Elves before migrating en masse in the Yuirwood.
@ Fellfire: Well actually it's kind of the reverse, Zandilar attempted to seduce Vhaeraun into helping the Yuir elves and instead was trapped, then Bast came along and successfully "distracted" Vhaeraun long enough to let Zandilar escape. At this point Zandilar was too weakened to survive as an indipendent deity and merged with Bast out of gratitude and necessity. The new merged goddess was "strong enough to help the Yuir elves drive off the drow forces for a time" probably thanks to Bast martial background as the leutenant of Anhur. (quoted text from Powers & Pantheons) |
Edited by - Demzer on 16 Oct 2014 22:18:51 |
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eeorey
Seeker
Bulgaria
96 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 22:43:49
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| To me star elves seem far more connected to the Llewyrr, they both build cities of crystal, they are both described as having the pale skin more akin to moon elves, but also blond and red hair that is common to the gold elves. They are both highly isolationist and have a high reliance on magic. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 23:01:08
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Another possibility -
Subjective timeflow between the Realms and this extraplanar forested demiplace of the Star elves may not be synchronized. Star elves might have been around for *only* a few thousand years on the Realms yet may have also existed for countless millennia in their special little forest.
Such temporal considerations affect many planes and Primes, at least when measured against the Ethereal and Astral and (why not?) even Ravenloft. |
[/Ayrik] |
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eeorey
Seeker
Bulgaria
96 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 23:11:48
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| Not a possibility but reality, in the Unapproachable East sourcebook it is stated that "Two days on the Material Plane equal one day in Sildëyuir." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 23:16:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Another possibility -
Subjective timeflow between the Realms and this extraplanar forested demiplace of the Star elves may not be synchronized. Star elves might have been around for *only* a few thousand years on the Realms yet may have also existed for countless millennia in their special little forest.
Such temporal considerations affect many planes and Primes, at least when measured against the Ethereal and Astral and (why not?) even Ravenloft.
Back in 2E, time in all of the linked settings flowed at the same rate... That may or may not still be the case, since at least a couple of the (formerly?) linked settings have advanced by decades or more.
Other than that quibble, good point, and a nifty suggestion. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 23:20:13
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And yet another possibility -
The drow have been changed through some combination of (Corellon and Seldarine) divine decree, the mysterious magical radiations of the Underdark, and perhaps also by Lolths fiendish manipulations.
So, too, have the Star elves been changed.
By the peculiar properties of their extraplanar domain. Perhaps theres even just a never-been-revealed mythal active on the other side which accelerates such change?
Perhaps - probably - some divine power has taken an interest in these elves. I realize a primary purpose of this scroll is to determine exactly which deity this might be. Why not nominate cliche old Mystra or Selune (acting through a Chosen agent like the Simbul?) or even one of the underrated Seldarine?
Or why not an extraplanar interloper with some elven agenda? A powerful celestial (like the Planescape-era Eladrin, not the 4E PC race but the true elven angel sort) or even an outcast Fey Lord sort of being? Or - yes - some Neutralish power, some minor Fiend Lordling, whatever.
For all I know, the Star elves might have deliberately stood outside the Realms for some higher mission, and they might have been bred to the task just as the Feyri/Daemonfey were bred to theirs. They are a good contender for the mysterious temporal guardians referred to passingly in the 2E Chronomancer supplement. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2014 : 02:39:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Uhm well the Star Elves were identified as Star Elves already in -6950 and they were living inside the sun and moon elves community of wider Faerun (since it's said that they left the other elven nations behind). It's only in -699 DR that they segregated themselves into Sildeyuir.
I think there is something amiss either in the Yuirwood or with the Star Elves themselves since their appearance (although Unapproachable East says they are mostly similar to moon elves) seems to vary a lot between what a sun elf and what a moon elf looks like (with Sharlarra being commonly mistaken for a sun elf for example). So they seem to be kind of inbetween the two big elven families.
Also i recall reading somewhere (anyone got a reference? I'm at a loss) that the Cha-Tel'Quessir of Aglarond breed true among themselves, something that tells them apart from any other half-elf on Faerun.
May it be a Star Elven quirk? May the Star Elves be a true breeding moon-sun elves crossbreed from a time of unity among the elven subraces (before the Crown Wars).
Also there was another maybe moon maybe sun elf lass in the canon Realms that had an odd mix of apperance and race, Ashemmi, could she be another Star Elf in disguise? [blasphemy! oh well, just throwing ideas around here]
Actually, except for the fact that they both have golden blonde hair, and one is known for copper hair and the other red hair... there's very little that makes them like sun elves. The sun elves have eyes of green or gold. The Star elves have eyes of gray or violet, with occasional gold flecks (the occasional gold flecks seems to come from the moon elves). The Star elves also occasionally have "silver white" hair, which is a moon elf trait. Given the eye color and the occasional white hair, one could even throw in some illythiiri/dark elves blood into the Star Elves. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2014 : 02:50:07
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Uhm well the Star Elves were identified as Star Elves already in -6950 and they were living inside the sun and moon elves community of wider Faerun (since it's said that they left the other elven nations behind). It's only in -699 DR that they segregated themselves into Sildeyuir.
I think there is something amiss either in the Yuirwood or with the Star Elves themselves since their appearance (although Unapproachable East says they are mostly similar to moon elves) seems to vary a lot between what a sun elf and what a moon elf looks like (with Sharlarra being commonly mistaken for a sun elf for example). So they seem to be kind of inbetween the two big elven families.
Also i recall reading somewhere (anyone got a reference? I'm at a loss) that the Cha-Tel'Quessir of Aglarond breed true among themselves, something that tells them apart from any other half-elf on Faerun.
May it be a Star Elven quirk? May the Star Elves be a true breeding moon-sun elves crossbreed from a time of unity among the elven subraces (before the Crown Wars).
Also there was another maybe moon maybe sun elf lass in the canon Realms that had an odd mix of apperance and race, Ashemmi, could she be another Star Elf in disguise? [blasphemy! oh well, just throwing ideas around here]
Actually, except for the fact that they both have golden blonde hair, and one is known for copper hair and the other red hair... there's very little that makes them like sun elves. The sun elves have eyes of green or gold. The Star elves have eyes of gray or violet, with occasional gold flecks (the occasional gold flecks seems to come from the moon elves). The Star elves also occasionally have "silver white" hair, which is a moon elf trait. Given the eye color and the occasional white hair, one could even throw in some illythiiri/dark elves blood into the Star Elves.
Oh, and on all this, given that the elves are a true breeding race, this obviously would cause problems. A lot of the features could easily be attributed to Avariels as well (minus the wings of course). However, it does of course raise the question.... when did elves become "true breeding"? Was there some high magic ritual in the past that sealed the elves to always breed true.... and was this similar to how Asmodeus made the tieflings breed true? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2014 : 17:23:11
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| I don't think that a definitive answer to that was ever given. However, considering that all elves are supposed to have come from Corellon's blood and Sehannie's tears, I'd say that they've always been true breeding. That's the way their gods want them to be. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2014 : 17:48:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I don't think that a definitive answer to that was ever given. However, considering that all elves are supposed to have come from Corellon's blood and Sehannie's tears, I'd say that they've always been true breeding. That's the way their gods want them to be.
The thing is, though, that with elves breeding true to their race -- or to just a single race of one of their parents -- then we wind up with trying to explain how we have multiple elven races.
So the first, god-born elves should have continued breeding the same. But we've got a lot of other flavors, so the question comes about of how and why these other elven races arose.
Given the many flavors of elf we have in the Realms, I now find myself wondering if *any* of the current races is the same as the first, god-born elves.
Me, I think the High Magic ritual for changing the race is a ready explanation for some of the elven races. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 02:22:37
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The primary elven subtypes of the Realms have virtually identical counterparts on Oerth, Krynn, across numerous other spheres and worlds, even spanning multiple planes. Some sources (like the 2E PHBR8: Complete Handbook of Elves) use a simplified taxonomy to explain that the specifics of each elven subtype are fairly constant. Little variations occur, usually cosmetic things like hair and eye colouring, general complexion and build, etc. Few exceptions exists - like the Grugach and Valley elves of Oerth - but these are explained as more extreme variations from common subspecies stock who were altered by extraordinary supernatural manipulations.
The only elven subtype which is entirely isolated from the rest (as of 2E, anyhow) was found on Athas and given a special explanation for how they came to be.
Little differences in appearance, even little differences in typical temperament or magical proficiency are hardly valid reasons to turn elven origins upside down, methinks. Humans, dwarves, even orcs have large physical variations yet few would disagree about their origins or claim this-or-that particular population must indicate an entirely new explanation for the genesis of all populations.
Star elves have some hair colour or whatnot which is distinctive of another elven group - cool, but I dont see why its a big deal. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Star Elves
