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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 08:48:04
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Poll Question:
In 5e/D&Dnext, would you like to see more attention and development given to the world of Toril beyond the continent of Faerun?
Kara-Tur, Zakhara, Maztica, Anchorome, Katashaka, and Osse; should they be given some attention? Should they get their own books, or one big book for all of them? Should they be explored from the Faerunian perspective or from their own perspective?
Or should they be left off the edge of the map as far off lands our faerunian characters have only ever heard of as stories, their very existence in doubt, or as blank slates for DM's to develop freely?
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"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 10:52:50
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I would love some novels set in new and unexplored surroundings.
Enough of the Sword Coast or Cormyr. |
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Lunarbeams
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 14:11:06
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| I think it will be good for gaming if we move away from Dalelands, Sword Coast, and Cormyr. Or other overused areas to let the imaginations grow. |
"Software are easy to solve because they do not have egos. " |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 15:18:50
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Leave Corymyr and the Sword Coast, but not Faerun entirely. There are still a lot unexplored/under-exposed realms in Faerun; no need to jump to a different continent yet. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 15:27:17
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I recall in the old WotC forums KnightErrantJR had started a topic, and a "far lands" sourcebook for the various other continents was in it as something most Realms fans wanted (along with updates to other regions as well. It was a long list but it was a lot of lore, not so much rules that we wanted.
As far as 5e/D&D Next, I want to see more lore on the areas so neglected. I'd love a Zakkhara/Kara-Tur/Maztica (and even returned Abeir, especially if they move it to match one of MarkusTay's maps or turn it into Anchorome) sourcebook. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 15:57:52
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I would like to see a Kara-Tur, Zakhara, and Maztica sourcebook, in that order. Perhaps a setting-specific guide to go with a new splat on rules for those regions (Oriental Adventures, Arabian Advetures, etc). I would only like to see more on those regions (beyond the initial setting guides) if they prove popular enough for them to do so, otherwise just one book updating each is fine.
As for the other areas... it depends. I personally use Xendrik for Katashaka simply because it is excellent. Unfortunately, they can't make Xendrik canon for two different settings, and I think it would be a waste of valuable resources for them to develop two separate 'tropical, Africanesque settings' for D&D. The best solution may be what I suggested a long time ago (based on the opinions of many others, including designers) - BUY the Nyambe book from its owner and make it FR canon. Unfortunately, I would still probably use Xendrik in place of it because Xendrik is so darn good.
I think that boils down a sentiment I have had for awhile now - no company can produce more then one setting in any extensive way without their other settings suffering for it. Can you imagine how much better FR would be if Eberron was never born? Now neither of those settings - nor any of the other official ones - can ever reach their potential. Too much redundancy. We can never have a great Katashaka because it will always be compared to Xendrik on some level.
What I would like to see moving forward is the sources - ALL of them (including novels) - to make mention of the fact that the rest of the world exists. Have you any idea how close Zakhara is to the southern coast of Faerūn, and yet, it gets no mention in the Shining South books (that I can recall)? Too much FR lore is 'written in a vacuum', and ignores everything around it. Hartsvale is probably the WORST example of this... it might as well not even exist. On a planet with airships, archmages that can teleport (amongst other things), intelligent creatures that can fly vast distances, and a presence in space(!), why is it no-one bothers to talk about any place beyond the horizon?
You know who mentioned folk from 'far away and exotic lands'? Ed Greenwood, in the OGB. Thats what the Realms need to feel like again... not another Menzoberranzan Vol.25. If 5e looks once again like Planet Drow I'm walking away. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Dec 2012 15:58:58 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 16:16:42
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This poll needs a "Hell Yes" option  |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 17:13:17
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| I have been waiting for them to detail the other continents since I purchased the 3e FRCG (my first RP book I ever bought). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 17:34:35
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In my opinion, we don't necessarily need a full write-up on each continent... But a two-page spread on each one would give us a lot more than we currently have. 5 or 10 pages each would be great!  |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 18:30:49
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| Zakhara has a bunch of great info printed in the 2E books/boxed sets that were released, but I would LOVE to see some updated/current lore published. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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vorpalanvil
Seeker
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 22:20:16
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| The developers of the more recent versions of dnd seem to have the opposite of Midas' Touch; everything they come into contact with turns into crap. |
"I'm a busy man! I got places to go, monsters to kill!" attributed to 1st level bard |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 22:24:01
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quote:
Originally posted by vorpalanvil
The developers of the more recent versions of dnd seem to have the opposite of Midas' Touch; everything they come into contact with turns into crap.
Perhaps we could stick a little more closely to the topic? |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 23:17:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think it would be a waste of valuable resources for them to develop two separate 'tropical, Africanesque settings' for D&D.
Why? They already come up with a different pseudo-european continent every time they make a new setting.
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2012 : 23:25:46
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I would be interested in seeing more of Zakhara, as some kind of nearby adventure excursion location from Faerun.
But I voted the option to not develop other continents in general terms, as I feel that we need more of non-Sword Coast, non-Cormyr etc stuff from Fearun. There are that many areas that could be developped further still... |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2012 : 01:26:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In my opinion, we don't necessarily need a full write-up on each continent... But a two-page spread on each one would give us a lot more than we currently have. 5 or 10 pages each would be great!
Or, at the very least, utilise those two-page spreads as introductory descriptions of the continents -- while later providing extra coverage for them through the DDI.
Not only would it be a great way to ensure greater detail on each locale, but it would allow for additional material about Faerūn in the campaign setting/guide itself. |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2012 : 08:32:40
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| Yes, develop these other continents |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2012 : 12:00:59
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
I would be interested in seeing more of Zakhara, as some kind of nearby adventure excursion location from Faerun.
But I voted the option to not develop other continents in general terms, as I feel that we need more of non-Sword Coast, non-Cormyr etc stuff from Fearun. There are that many areas that could be developped further still...
To me, it's not an either/or proposition, then again I hardly know the ins and outs of the business. What I do know is that they have plenty of writers eager to write for them and more material than they publish anyway. Just divide some of that attention between Faerun and the rest of the world.
Then again, personally I'm of the opinion that Faerun is, if anything, overdeveloped. I wouldn't want to see any of the other continents receive anywhere near the same level of detail. Just give me enough to go on so I can tell my own stories there without having to build it from scratch.
On the other hand, I am always pushing for story progression. Faerunian expansion, focus on well established intercontinental trade and travel, these might just be the next step for the Forgotten Realms story; we already touched on first contact back in 2e, maybe it's time to move up to the full-blown colonization stage. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2012 : 14:01:43
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Really, the only ONLY sourcebook I want is one that heavily details Returned Abier. That way I can't be mad when they replace it with FR-Mexico again and I can continue to keep the Realms as I see fit with as much lore and information as possible.
But I agree that it would be nice to see other aspects of Toril outside of Faerūn. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2012 : 15:42:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by vorpalanvil
The developers of the more recent versions of dnd seem to have the opposite of Midas' Touch; everything they come into contact with turns into crap.
Perhaps we could stick a little more closely to the topic?
While vorpalanvil was a little insulting in his estimation, he did make a valid point.
Right now, I like the old Zakhara material (as-is). I also like the K-T material, although it really could use a facelift (a little TOO derivative). I like the concept of Maztica, I just think they went so deep into RW derivation that it was a bit boring. WE got what we asked for with Maztica - something new. Nobody really liked everything that entailed. What if they do start detailing the rest of the world and its gawd-awful?
I keep having to ask myself, do we really want 'new' FR material? We got a face full of it in 4e, and we all saw how that worked out.
Just playing devil's advocate here - you know, the whole "Be careful what you wish for" thing. Maybe they should just stick to Faerūn for the time being, and lets see how that pans-out before we start asking for other things. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Dec 2012 15:43:19 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2012 : 23:10:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Really, the only ONLY sourcebook I want is one that heavily details Returned Abier. That way I can't be mad when they replace it with FR-Mexico again and I can continue to keep the Realms as I see fit with as much lore and information as possible.
But I agree that it would be nice to see other aspects of Toril outside of Faerūn.
I'll jump on the Returned Abeir bandwagon. In truth, I think a tome no smaller than Menzoberranzan detailing the entire world of Abeir and how...uh...Returned-Returned-Abeir (say that five times fast) has affected the planet. Elves, a wholly Torillian phenomena, are a curiosity on this world, and I am sure there are other parts of this planet that could be developed. I would lay out the funds for a book such as this.
Kara-Tur, Maztica, and Zakhara have all, if I'm not mistaken, all have extensive material on them, boxed sets and/or softcover books stretching back to AD&D, so in my opinion, small adventure-book sized updates would likely suffice (assuming reprints of the originals are possible). Katashaka, Anchorome, and Osse are tabula rasa, as far as I'm aware. Osse would be the only one of the three I'd be tempted to follow a real-world flow like they did with Maztica (have the Sword Coast cities dumping undesirables there, and so forth), but I'd be interested to see what all three could look like.
- OMH
Edit: I would lay out funds for printed material. DDI-only material is an annoying concept. |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 18 Dec 2012 23:11:35 |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2012 : 23:20:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Edit: I would lay out funds for printed material. DDI-only material is an annoying concept.
I would also second the idea for printed and/or PDF material. What would be nice is if the print material were enough for a quick overview (think Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, the smaller one, or one of the nation books from Paizo) that would allow a player to join and have a good overview in 20-30 pages. Then, the pdf material could go up to, say, 80-pages or so, being more in depth and more focused on a greater understanding.
Mind you, many may not like this idea, but I don't know that they'd print a 110-120-page sourcebook just to appease me for all the information in one book. Mind you, that would be per REGION. I could certainly see campaign-sized books for the overviews, but the smaller books for each "nation." that would get really dicey given how many nations you're talking (at least the main nations per region, so Shou Lung, Wa, Kozakura, Cormyr, Sword Coast, Dalelands, Thay, Lantan, Maztica as a whole...)
I, frankly, stopped all subscriptions when Dungeon and Dragon both went to DDI only. While I love Paizo, my wallet did not like me so much (and my wife "convinced" me ) |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
Edited by - Darkmeer on 18 Dec 2012 23:25:28 |
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2012 : 23:27:27
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| I would like to see some material for places like the Border Kingdoms, the Shaar, Lapaliiya, Tashalar, Chult and Tharsult before we get stuff on other continents, though isnt Zakhara on the same continent, just a long way to the south? |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2012 : 05:25:02
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I will say that my biggest problem with Maztica and Kara-tur is that they read less like fantasy worlds based off meso-america and the orient respectively and more like actual meso-america and the orient, only with all the myths and magic being real. So further development on these locales, along with the as of yet untouched continents, would preferably be more dressed up than "here's a real world culture with a different name".
Incidentally , that was the same reason I had problems with Mulhorand and Unther.
I'd also love to see a full book on Abier/Returned Abeir, as I've stated before.
I do get the skepticism regarding the quality of new lore- I've said myself that a part of me really hopes they don't give too much further development into Many-Arrows out of fear of them ruining it- but in this case I put my natural cynicism aside and hope for the best. By and large, I'm a fan of most of what 4e brought to the table for the realms- granted, I'm pretty much the only one, but I've never let that hold me back before- so I'm not too worried about what future development will bring, especially for the virtually untouched Anchorome, Osse, and Katashaka. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2012 : 23:29:26
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Ed convinced me. Kara-Tur, Maztica and the other real world culture locales need some serious tweaking. Perhaps even exision from the Realms.
Trying to delve further into the realm of fantasy for those realms beyond fearun is daunting, as its -a lot- more work but also because finding the right tone to fit into the Forgotten Realms flavor might be hard.
I am quite content if they give me more detail from Fearun proper, there are many regional sourcebooks that can have more useful content for years to come if they define the many characteristics of them thoroughly. I think lower scaled, localised sourcebooks would be better products for it aswell.
I must confess that I do like the way Zahkara was done, still an excellent product dispite the obvious arabian influences. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2012 : 23:49:33
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Bladewind: The hordelands were redone just before the end of Dragon Magazine, although I can't recall the issue, adding significantly more lore and helping to fit them to the realms that much better.
I think a treatment given to each of the far lands similar to that and adding proper lore behind it would help to make the whole thing better. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2012 : 00:07:15
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Perhaps the Spellplague and the time jump might be of use after all. Giving the 'Realms Yonder' a sufficient twist to their flavour and details can be done somewhat easier with the time for change to have occured and the planar turmoil Mystras assassination caused.
I fear washing the historic analogies away would conflict with earlier material a tad too much though. |
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Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2012 : 02:37:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Perhaps the Spellplague and the time jump might be of use after all. Giving the 'Realms Yonder' a sufficient twist to their flavour and details can be done somewhat easier with the time for change to have occured and the planar turmoil Mystras assassination caused.
I fear washing the historic analogies away would conflict with earlier material a tad too much though.
Not necessarily; this is where that century time skip can be seen as a blessing. It's more than enough time for the culture to have diverged and changed into something more than the historical analogue it was before, especially in the case of Maztica- what affect did a century on another planet have for that continent? |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
237 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2012 : 15:27:35
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Personally I would love if the other continents were more Realmsified as well as further detailed. Otherwise they are inaccessible for me, as a Forgotten Realms fan.
One thing I like about Pathfinder is that they've managed to make practically every continent in it, interesting and unique. With original fantasy concepts as well as concepts that take the role of an equivalent RW culture.
Would also love to see more detail on areas of Faerun that aren't that well-detailed. The Northlander Isles of the Trackless Sea (not the Moonshae ones, but Ruathym, Gundarlun, Tuern, etc), Raurin, Sossal, the Nelanther Isles, the Utter East, the Hordelands, Murghom and Semphar, come to mind. |
Edited by - deserk on 20 Dec 2012 15:29:34 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2012 : 17:48:11
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I'd probably take some minor issue with the 'originality' of Pathfinder cultures, but I was very impressed by the way they handled "the rest of the world". Much better, IMHO, then any edition of FR has done.
Not only does the rest of the world get a good-sized nod in the campaign guide, but Golarion also manages to slip-in small bits of those cultures right in the main campaign setting. In that way, even if the DM doesn't want to bother with those areas, players can still have the option of running PCs from those regions with minimal fuss (with DM permission, of course).
I think the 4e team tried to do something similar with 'Shou towns', and also some obscure bits they tried to tie into other areas (the GHotR entries concerning Mazticans in Faerūn, and the vingette connecting the Utter East to Zakhara).
This is why I advocated for a Shou-takeover of Semphar (even though I like Semphar), because I wanted the Shou to have access to the Sea of Fallen Stars (without the need for the gate, which probably doesn't even work post-Spellplague). Along with that, I want to see active trading with Zakhara and points further away. Even if we don't get the details about those other continents (some) of us want, at least let us know they are there. It seems odd to just keep ignoring them. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Dec 2012 17:50:15 |
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Aryalómė
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2012 : 18:37:07
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| I think a very in-depth sourcebook for these lands would be great, but leave the main info on Faerun. Like others have said, it still has vastly underdeveloped places that have yet to be explored. |
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Beyond Faerun
