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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 04:37:18
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Mystryl, mystra, or a complete MYstra.
however too dont want The Goddess Midnight back in the realms.
as was said back in the early days of 4e, the death of mystra is a realms cliche.
its also poor form to use her death to explain rule changes.
all one has to do is explain the weave out of existance and that that form of Art was done as a limitation until such time that either the weave was fully repaired or was no longer needed to cast magic.
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 15:47:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
My view at this time is that Mystra should be there as a goddess of magic. However, she should not have total and complete control of the weave. She should be the "lady of mysteries" as she was before, and she should represent magic in all of its varied majesties (whether wizard, priest, binder, incarnum wielder, etc...). There then should be OTHER gods of magic, but those gods should be representing aspects of "magic". For instance, Auppenser as a god of the psionic arts, Azuth as a god of transmutation and defensive magics, Leira as a goddess of illusions and nefarious enchantments, Savras as a god of research and divination magic, Malyk (Talos alias) as a god of wild and destructive magics, Shar as a goddess of darkness/shadow magic. These shouldn't be separate weaves, nor should any of these deities have ultimate control over their field of magic. However, perhaps they can bestow their favor upon those who call upon them when performing works in their name, etc....
I had an idea like this a couple years ago; I thought that if they were going to make a new god of magic they needed to go in the opposite direction and make multiple gods of magic; I think the two I spitballed at the time were a LN god who's dogma could be summed up as magical supremacy; that wizards should be the rulers of the world, the people in power in governments. The other one was what basically amounted to a god of the spellplague, a patron for the Order of Blue Fire that wanted to see the world covered in wild magic.
I later dropped the idea as it's unnecessary. Thanks partly to influence to a certain dragon magazine article covering heresy and heretical cults of gods, and also due to my own research into how followers of RL religions will take the message and twist it to their own ends, it occurred to me that more gods aren't needed, we have all the ones we need and no one needs or should have dominion over magic specifically.
So you can have a necromancer who reveres Shar or Yurtrus or a wizard supremacist who reveres Amaunator or Bane or an illusionist who reveres Garl Glittergold or Lolth. Because it's not about magic. Magic is just the tool these people use. It's about their philosophy, their personality, their world view. You don't need a magic-specific deity for that.
The main thing I see with all these other "gods of specific kinds of magic" is that each should have another focus. For instance, Leira as having some ties to illusionists wouldn't be the defacto goddess for all those who worship illusions, however, she would still be the goddess of lies and deceptions, and thus she draws in those who have those focuses which might include a lot of illusionists. Similarly with Malyk/Talos, he wouldn't be the defacto god of invokers, but those invokers who have a tendency to just want to cause destruction might find him the right fit.
So, the question comes down as this.... why have all these other "deities of magic"? Maybe there is something to choosing a deity as a non-priest? Maybe you actually gain some kind of benefit as a result of their favor as long as you have been true to their ethos. Maybe making offerings to a deity which is not your chosen deity does have actual effects for a short term. These bonuses should be extremely minor (I'm thinking things like +1 to the save DC on a spell once a week, maybe +1 on a skill check like profession (sailing) or craft weapon, maybe a +1 caster level bonus on a temporary item like a potion, scroll, etc...) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 16:58:55
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I voted "I want Mystra at any cost: Bring back Mystra, but NOT as the Goddess of all Magic". That's not precisely what I want, but it was the closest to it.
I don't understand why people voted 64% for the first one - that situation NEVER existed in FR. I guess people want the setting to change then. 
I am starting to feel people don't really care about what 'old FR' was, but rather, what THEY thought it was.
At no point in time was Mystra ever the 'Goddess of ALL magic". That is merely how people chose to read it. Not only was there magic that fell outside her purview all along, but we've had numerous other deities with aspects of magic in their portfolios. The Weave was NOT the only way to perform magic - Ed has even said that.
As for my preference, I'd love to see Midnight (as MIDNIGHT) brought back as a Hecate-like 'Lady of Mysteries'. I think the name 'Mystra' now has too much baggage and polarizes the fanbase. A goddess of magic - perhaps a popular one - but NOT 'the only game in town'.
I think part of the problem may be the D&D rules themselves - certain core concepts may be out-dated. If we simply throw out the concept that divine magic is something different then 'regular magic', it may solve a lot of problems. Is a priest of Mystra a wizard, or a Cleric? If both, why? Why aren't they simply Maji? If I am an illusionist who worships Liira, then am I a priest or not? If not, why not?
It doesn't matter what you call it (spells, miracles, powers, etc) - magic is magic. Weather you are pulling it out of the ground or beseeching a powerful entity, it should work the same. As it is now (or was), if a Wizard worships Cyric, he is contributing to Mystra's portfolio more then his own deity - isn't that a bit counter-intuitive? It makes Mystra far too powerful.
Mystra needs to be a means to an end, not the end itself. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Oct 2012 16:59:41 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 17:24:09
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My apologies for ostensibly wording the responses in a "biased" way--I was trying to be cute and clear, rather than biased. Nor did I intend folks to read too much into the "Goddess of ALL Magic" thing--what I meant was "restore Mystra as she was." I will remove the descriptors.
The poll is basically supposed to offer these options:
Yes Mystra, Yes Goddess of Magic
Yes Mystra, No Goddess of Magic
Maybe Mystra, Yes God/Goddess of Magic
No Mystra, Yes God/Goddess of Magic
No Mystra, No God/Goddess of Magic
No opinion
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 17:28:32
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Well, when Mystra is kind of ressurrected, then it would be nice, if there simultaneously could be answers to questions like
why do magic work outside Faerun in much the same way (kara-tur, al-quadim, the planes etc) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 17:33:23
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My own feelings on the subject of reviving Mystra and what form she takes get boiled down in this point: "Let Ed do it the way he wants to." That said, my own feelings fall into #3: I like there being a god/goddess of magic (preferably multiple gods of different kinds of magic), and Mystra (in some form) can/should be included there.
The point about Mystra being a goddess of magic but not THE goddess of ALL magic is a good point, and I like what MT is saying about wizards vs. priests. My personal preference in fantasy is to have no functional difference between wizards and priests--it's mainly a question of flavor. A wizard is all about personal research and raw power, while a priest serves a deity. To me, priest should be a profession, not a class. I'm happy with "cleric" being a class, defined by garnering power from a divine being.
When it comes to it, the "fighter = melee combat, rogue = skill/sneaky, mage = assault/indirect magic, cleric = healing/defense magic" construct is an iconic paradigm that is an inherent thing in D&D. I would stick with those terms and definitions, and let "warrior," "thief," "wizard," or "priest" define a character's profession/role, rather than class. And indeed, D&D-Next has made overtures to handling it this way.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 18:11:18
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I say bring Mystra back...but as a Guardian of Magic and not of magic itself.
The Unicorn is now the embodiment of magic for me after reading Elminster's Forgotten Realms and having read many things related to Lurue. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 21:02:08
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
My view at this time is that Mystra should be there as a goddess of magic. However, she should not have total and complete control of the weave. She should be the "lady of mysteries" as she was before, and she should represent magic in all of its varied majesties (whether wizard, priest, binder, incarnum wielder, etc...). There then should be OTHER gods of magic, but those gods should be representing aspects of "magic". For instance, Auppenser as a god of the psionic arts, Azuth as a god of transmutation and defensive magics, Leira as a goddess of illusions and nefarious enchantments, Savras as a god of research and divination magic, Malyk (Talos alias) as a god of wild and destructive magics, Shar as a goddess of darkness/shadow magic. These shouldn't be separate weaves, nor should any of these deities have ultimate control over their field of magic. However, perhaps they can bestow their favor upon those who call upon them when performing works in their name, etc....
I had an idea like this a couple years ago; I thought that if they were going to make a new god of magic they needed to go in the opposite direction and make multiple gods of magic; I think the two I spitballed at the time were a LN god who's dogma could be summed up as magical supremacy; that wizards should be the rulers of the world, the people in power in governments. The other one was what basically amounted to a god of the spellplague, a patron for the Order of Blue Fire that wanted to see the world covered in wild magic.
I later dropped the idea as it's unnecessary. Thanks partly to influence to a certain dragon magazine article covering heresy and heretical cults of gods, and also due to my own research into how followers of RL religions will take the message and twist it to their own ends, it occurred to me that more gods aren't needed, we have all the ones we need and no one needs or should have dominion over magic specifically.
So you can have a necromancer who reveres Shar or Yurtrus or a wizard supremacist who reveres Amaunator or Bane or an illusionist who reveres Garl Glittergold or Lolth. Because it's not about magic. Magic is just the tool these people use. It's about their philosophy, their personality, their world view. You don't need a magic-specific deity for that.
The main thing I see with all these other "gods of specific kinds of magic" is that each should have another focus. For instance, Leira as having some ties to illusionists wouldn't be the defacto goddess for all those who worship illusions, however, she would still be the goddess of lies and deceptions, and thus she draws in those who have those focuses which might include a lot of illusionists. Similarly with Malyk/Talos, he wouldn't be the defacto god of invokers, but those invokers who have a tendency to just want to cause destruction might find him the right fit.
So, the question comes down as this.... why have all these other "deities of magic"? Maybe there is something to choosing a deity as a non-priest? Maybe you actually gain some kind of benefit as a result of their favor as long as you have been true to their ethos. Maybe making offerings to a deity which is not your chosen deity does have actual effects for a short term. These bonuses should be extremely minor (I'm thinking things like +1 to the save DC on a spell once a week, maybe +1 on a skill check like profession (sailing) or craft weapon, maybe a +1 caster level bonus on a temporary item like a potion, scroll, etc...)
Now that is something that just doesn't interest me at all.
As I've said, I prefer the separation of the arcane and the divine. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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MaskedOne
Acolyte
42 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 03:34:42
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Bring Mystra back and give her back her post as Lady Magic. That said, she didn't have a perfect monopoly before and doesn't need one now. I wouldn't necessarily mind alterations to what the position of Goddess of Magic means in FR. We don't necessarily need Mystra to be just as she was in 3.5 or even before that. It's a different world with some sizable changes, Mystra will have to adapt a bit to it but Mystra (in some form) as Goddess of Magic has always been a defining aspect of the Realms for me.
I'm going to be more than a little peeved if early Midnight (she stopped in large part for her own reasons) era mistakes get re-introduced or Mystra is slated to get executed AGAIN when you shift the rules. Rules change = kill Mystra lost its charm the first time, QUIT DOING IT! |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 03:55:05
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I still say that having a god of magic is unnecessary. Why would anyone other than a wizard worship her? Why would wizards worship her; she's got no core philosophy or dogma other than use magic. A wizard focused on the accumulation of magical knowledge could just worship Oghma.
If they do go with a god of magic, Mystra or otherwise, what I would like to see is a countermeasure. Not a god of magic and a god of evil magic, that's a terrible idea. I mean a god of magic and a god of anti-magic. I'd like to see a god dedicated to containing, regulating, controlling, slowing the spread of it. Maybe just as a temporary thing, but I would like to see someone who is actively against the use of magic in the realms. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 04:08:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I still say that having a god of magic is unnecessary. Why would anyone other than a wizard worship her? Why would wizards worship her; she's got no core philosophy or dogma other than use magic. A wizard focused on the accumulation of magical knowledge could just worship Oghma.
If they do go with a god of magic, Mystra or otherwise, what I would like to see is a countermeasure. Not a god of magic and a god of evil magic, that's a terrible idea. I mean a god of magic and a god of anti-magic. I'd like to see a god dedicated to containing, regulating, controlling, slowing the spread of it. Maybe just as a temporary thing, but I would like to see someone who is actively against the use of magic in the realms.
I had a character that was doing this with science. Even had an afective railroad and telegraph line in the underdark. Then a follower of Mystra killed me. The train still working, but the telegraph lines all got cut. Although a group of mind flayers were thinking about fixing them. Ah, good times. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 05:24:33
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| I voted for having Mystra back but not as the goddess of magic, but really, I'm of mixed feelings. I think the god/goddess of magic needs to be nuetral, not good or evil. I want her back for the same reason I want all the gods back that died in 4e (no more killing deities), but maybe make her less involved. Her main responsibilty is to govern the Weave. Of course she can have Chosen (any deity should be able to), but maybe make them a little less powerful. They can still be gifted individuals of course. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 06:03:50
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Yes bring Mystra back, but please let's have less direct divine interaction between her and her mortal servants (i.e. Chosen).
Instead, let her be the Lady of Mysteries. This includes her Chosen not always knowing what she wants or desires. Instead they, like priests, followers, magic users and lay people, have to mostly figure things out on their own, with only the briefest of all hints (if any) that the Mother of All Magic is pleased.
Don't even indicate her alignment.
Please bring deities like Azuth and Velsharoon (or their 5E equivalents) and the demi-human deities of magic to the forefront. I feel like Mystra has too long overshadowed these other deities, making them redundant. I'd like to learn more about them (or, again, their 5E equivalents) in relation to magic and hope they can have a more prominent place vis-a-vis magic in the 5E Realms..
Lastly, for the 5E Realms, please explore (through lore, if not game mechanics) all the varieties of magic in the Realms. Show us how different forms of magic have their roots in mysteries that Mystra (or her mortal servants) have inspired others to explore and unravel. Then show us new forms of magic that are being explored (maybe tie these in with 5E rules?).
To the point: put the Mystery back in Mystra. She's been far too exposed, for too long.
That said, if she's to be depicted in artwork, make it awesome artwork. Like the artwork for Wee Jas in the 3E Deities and Demigods and not the execrable artwork for Mystra in Faiths and Pantheons. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 06:17:53
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Insert {clapping smiley}
Kinda what I said (I just like 'Midnight' as a new name for her, but thats certainly no deal-breaker... I can call her whatever I want IMG).
1e/2e was filled with mysteries. 3e/4e is more like 'cold, hard facts'. When I think of The Forgotten Realms, I think of the saying, "It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma." Or like Shrek Ogres, FR has layers. You peel one back and simply find more layers. Theres nothing fun about having all the answers in front of you in B&W. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 06:34:03
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Of course she can have Chosen (any deity should be able to), but maybe make them a little less powerful. They can still be gifted individuals of course.
Interestingly enough, Ed disagrees with you on that point. I recall he once said that originally, Mystra was the only deity who could have chosen and it wasn't until later authors got their hands on the setting that chosen of other gods showed up.
Personally I see this as one of the instances where going in the opposite direction Ed had planned worked out for the better. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 08:53:02
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| I would say yes, bring Mystra back as the goddess of magic. While the aspect of her being "an overpower without her Chosen" could be downplayed, and perhaps room given to alternative methods of accessing magic (which would also help shed light on some of those alternate systems as a whole, and expand the lore of the setting), I do think that FR needs Mystra (it just isn't the same without her), and that there needs to be a god/goddess of magic. It's too big and potentially dangerous a portfolio to not have a steward watching over it. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 15:09:24
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The Realms need a Mystra in some form. But Midnight was awful in far too many ways. She was shown as inexperienced, yet overbearing. She had a failed romance with Kelemvor, abused her authority/portfolio, and decided to let Cyric and Shar on her home plane.
Still, the WotC authors have pretty much made all the gods look like idiots over the past 20+ years. Cyric is the most useless and irritating god they've ever conceived. Tyr just decides to give up his power and die? The god-drama that felt like a bad Spanish telenovela? Eilistraee making the incomprehensible decisions she made, resulting in her death (or removal from the game)?
If they bring back Mystra, they need to have her stop being an idiot. But the same goes for the other gods. It's not just her, it's the whole monocular vision thing with poor planning and thinking that needs to be addressed - with all the gods.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 17:28:17
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| The realms needs Mystra and her chosen in some form, stewards who promote, protect and inspire magic. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 18:54:44
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@CoA: haha really? Well, Ed is a genius and I thank him for creating this wonderful world, but yes, I think other gods should have Chosen (or the equivelant thereof)too. Only fair.
@Therise: I was saddened by her failed relationship with Kelemvor, but I'm a sap, so. When I read the Avatar series, I got the impression that Cyric--at least before he became a god--had affections for Midnight. Maybe jealousy was part of the whole downward spiral. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 22:38:15
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What I 'think' Ed meant was that only Mystra/Mystryl should have Chosen. However, other deities could have 'agents' (with their own titles) that have been 'chosen' by their god. Not the small letter 'c'.
So you can be chosen, but only Mystra should have Chosen (as they are written-up in the Seven Sisters tome). Cyric's agent is called "the seraph of Lies" - thats perfect. Another example: Ilmater has 'Saints'.
They could all be exarchs, but they shouldn't all be Chosen. Thats how I interpret what Ed has said regarding them.
And if THO reads this hopefully she will correct me if I'm wrong (or support my conclusion.. either way...) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Oct 2012 22:41:41 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 22:52:39
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
@CoA: haha really? Well, Ed is a genius and I thank him for creating this wonderful world, but yes, I think other gods should have Chosen (or the equivelant thereof)too. Only fair.
It has nothing to do with being fair. Mystra has Chosen as a way of limiting her power, and also as a way to help with the Weave. Mystra is the most powerful deity of the setting, and her Chosen are a sort of balance on her power.
I have no objection with other deities having some sort of special divine servants, but they shouldn't be called Chosen, and they shouldn't have near the power level as those elevated servants of the most powerful deity in the setting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 22:56:46
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I don't know, the way I remember it(and I could be wrong so don't hold me to this, and if THO is reading please correct me), the way he put it seemed to be that only Mystra could empower agents the way Chosen are empowered. Another god might have agents on the mortal plane but they wouldn't have any powers bestowed on them by the deity in question. I recall him specifically mentioning that as the goddess of magic, Mystra was special that way, and that her chosen specifically were supposed to be why the forces of evil hadn't already overran the world.
Which is one of the reasons I don't like Mystra or her chosen- no offense or disrespect to Ed, but I'm not a fan of beings who's soul purpose is to maintain the status quo.
Anyway, in the 5e thread I was getting into a debate regarding whether or not people used magic as a tool or for it's own sake. The use as a tool was labeled "cold blooded" by someone; I don't look at it like that. I think the reason someone pursues something with the dedication required to master magic is because they love it- if it was all about power there'd be nothing but wizards. Someone pursues swordsmanship because they are passionate about it, just as someone pursues the Art because they are passionate about spellcraft.
But that passion still comes secondary to their goals, their philosophies, and their outlooks. Those things are what I think define a person's choice of deity. Mystra's "use magic for magic's sake" is such a narrow philosophy that I don't see her rising above the rank of lesser deity, if that. Even then I think that would be mostly covered by Oghma- the study of magic is just the acquisition of knowledge, really, or Sune or Corellon, as magic is just another expression of art or poetry.
That's why I just don't see the need for a goddess of magic itself. Every potential use of magic is covered by another deity; a goddess of the thing itself is just far too niche. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 02:45:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
The realms needs Mystra and her chosen in some form, stewards who promote, protect and inspire magic.
And a Magister, too. Keep it all as simple as possible.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 02:52:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I still say that having a god of magic is unnecessary. Why would anyone other than a wizard worship her? Why would wizards worship her; she's got no core philosophy or dogma other than use magic. A wizard focused on the accumulation of magical knowledge could just worship Oghma.
If they do go with a god of magic, Mystra or otherwise, what I would like to see is a countermeasure. Not a god of magic and a god of evil magic, that's a terrible idea. I mean a god of magic and a god of anti-magic. I'd like to see a god dedicated to containing, regulating, controlling, slowing the spread of it. Maybe just as a temporary thing, but I would like to see someone who is actively against the use of magic in the realms.
As to who would worship Mystra as a generic goddess of the mysteries of magic, I pointed out several scenarios in another thread. Those people that study multiple methodologies of magic (i.e. anima mages, metaminds, ultimate magi, mystic theurges, eldritch theurges, etc....) would definitely be the kind of person whose focus would mesh with Mystra's. However, that being said, there would be others who might just like Mystra for her broad magical appeal rather than a focus on an aspect of magic.
As to someone against the use of magic... you had it... Entropy. I think I was one of the few people to actually do anything with it. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 03:05:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
But that passion still comes secondary to their goals, their philosophies, and their outlooks. Those things are what I think define a person's choice of deity. Mystra's "use magic for magic's sake" is such a narrow philosophy that I don't see her rising above the rank of lesser deity, if that. Even then I think that would be mostly covered by Oghma- the study of magic is just the acquisition of knowledge, really, or Sune or Corellon, as magic is just another expression of art or poetry.
You're right in that Mystra CAN be worshipped as a researcher would worship Oghma. However, Mystra's worshippers, as I see it have a love of the magic itself.... much as how Oghmanites love obscure facts and discovering those obscure facts. Mystra's worshippers might simply relish the feel of magic carrying them up into the night sky in a dance upon the winds... but at the same time, they relish that they learned to do the ritual that enabled them to harness the magic energy to perform the night sky dance spell. Its the feeling of joy in being able to do things which are supernatural, mixed with the pride in their work, and the mystery that surrounds everything that is magic. Oghma isn't quite that.... not saying some wizards wouldn't worship him.... but there's a place for Mystra. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 04:11:06
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| Mystra's clergy would also be the chaplain of choice for magical academies and they run sick houses for those handicapped permanently by magic. Their mission is to encourage the growth of arcane lore throughout Faerun. Also, Spell plague provides them with a magical disaster of epic proportions to spend their time cleaning up. Also, arcane magic users in FR land are in need of a PR manager due to the changing attitudes toward magic over the past 100 years. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 11:34:54
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Gods make people lazy.
Inept Wizard tried to cast a levitation spell. After a month, he only managed to lift himself an inch from the ground, at exactly 2 seconds. Frustrated, he prayed: O Lady of Mysteries, help me master this simple spell! You know I've tried so hard.
Mystra: O you poor boy. Of course, I will.
Poof! Inept Wizard levitated a thousand feet above the ground. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 11:54:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Gods make people lazy.
Inept Wizard tried to cast a levitation spell. After a month, he only managed to lift himself an inch from the ground, at exactly 2 seconds. Frustrated, he prayed: O Lady of Mysteries, help me master this simple spell! You know I've tried so hard.
Mystra: O you poor boy. Of course, I will.
Poof! Inept Wizard levitated a thousand feet above the ground.
You have any canon examples of this? |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 Oct 2012 11:55:10 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 12:19:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
@CoA: haha really? Well, Ed is a genius and I thank him for creating this wonderful world, but yes, I think other gods should have Chosen (or the equivelant thereof)too. Only fair.
It has nothing to do with being fair. Mystra has Chosen as a way of limiting her power, and also as a way to help with the Weave. Mystra is the most powerful deity of the setting, and her Chosen are a sort of balance on her power.
I have no objection with other deities having some sort of special divine servants, but they shouldn't be called Chosen, and they shouldn't have near the power level as those elevated servants of the most powerful deity in the setting.
Which is one of the reasons I've enjoyed the time she's been gone. I don't feel the need for one of the greater deities to be so much more powerful than the others, nor do I feel the need for there to be several powerful agents of said uberdeity roaming around the world. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 13:11:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
@CoA: haha really? Well, Ed is a genius and I thank him for creating this wonderful world, but yes, I think other gods should have Chosen (or the equivelant thereof)too. Only fair.
It has nothing to do with being fair. Mystra has Chosen as a way of limiting her power, and also as a way to help with the Weave. Mystra is the most powerful deity of the setting, and her Chosen are a sort of balance on her power.
I have no objection with other deities having some sort of special divine servants, but they shouldn't be called Chosen, and they shouldn't have near the power level as those elevated servants of the most powerful deity in the setting.
Which is one of the reasons I've enjoyed the time she's been gone. I don't feel the need for one of the greater deities to be so much more powerful than the others, nor do I feel the need for there to be several powerful agents of said uberdeity roaming around the world.
Why not? It makes perfect sense that the deity of magic in a high magic world would be more powerful than the rest... |
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Do we need a god/dess of magic?
