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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Sep 2012 : 10:14:12
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A question in my mind for long time.
When a dragon loses, with poison or spell, or other source a lot of str is he then still able to fly??
Or is the dragons flxing ability anyway sourced by magic alone?
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2012 : 12:31:29
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| I would say the any dragon require only 1 STR to fly at full speed. The wings for creatures this size make no sense no begin with, so I don't think their wing muscles make that much of a difference. |
Edited by - Kilvan on 26 Sep 2012 15:20:38 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2012 : 12:47:13
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| I don't think we can look at this issue from a biological standpoint because (as noted above) an animal that size would never be able to fly with wings like that. There is a reason we don't see giant flying animals on our own planet. The largest flying dinosaurs were small compared to dragons and they were clumsy gliders at best. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2012 : 14:36:52
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| Dragon flying is like merFolk swimming, an innate ability. Stat needs to be 0 in order not to do something is my opinion. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2012 : 15:08:20
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sounds plausible, some dragons have really tiny wings indeed.
thx guys |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2012 : 23:07:19
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The great book of dragons, the Draconomicon, mentions that a set of 4 hyperstrong muscles control the wingmotion of a dragon. They're located at the base of the neck and wings, the shoulders and the chest of the beast. And yes, the power of these muscles, a dragons relative light weight, and their wingspan allow dragons their flight (no supernatural things involved except for the dragons supercharged metabolism).
They do need proper speed to take flight (i.e. a grounded red dragon that takes off needs at least 40ft or 8 squares of movement in the air to avoid falling to the ground). Hampering a dragons fly speed somehow is the most effective means of preventing its flight. Everything that halves its movement is a good first step. Could be done thorugh exhaustion, entanglement, being slowed or being blinded. Apply two of those conditions on a dragon and it cant fly :)
Giving direct movement penalties is more tricky... I need to think on how that can be accomplished. Special huge sized adamantine caltrops? |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2012 : 15:58:40
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Even if STR/muscles are required for a proper dragon flight, I wouldn't recommend any DM to consider STR loss for flight speed. They do need their wings to flap in order to fly, so a wing clip or a severe wing injury would prevent or hinder it.
Note that a Dracolich's flight becomes supernatural upon transformation, so it is clear that it wasn't before (look under Dracolich entry in the Draconomicon 3.X, under speed).
Seriously, just the idea of managing STR loss into a speed loss is making my nose bleed  |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2012 : 00:32:41
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| Not biologically sound? Not so fast- bumblebees should not realistically be able to fly either- yet tehy can and do. Also, I will add that the largest flying dinosaurs (not actually dinosaurs, but pterosaurs, which are a seperate branch) were the size of a small single-prop plane! The largest one found to date measured over 40 feet, so theoretically, yes, a dragon COULD fly. |
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"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
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http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2012 : 02:23:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Not biologically sound? Not so fast- bumblebees should not realistically be able to fly either- yet tehy can and do. Also, I will add that the largest flying dinosaurs (not actually dinosaurs, but pterosaurs, which are a seperate branch) were the size of a small single-prop plane! The largest one found to date measured over 40 feet, so theoretically, yes, a dragon COULD fly.
Myth, a graduate student made the statement about bees, however messed up the math, missed one component of wing structure.that can fly, dragons are magical in nature to start with.Something like biologically sound in many ways should not be a controlling factor, something of maybe 25 percent in stead.
Setting aside bees |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2012 : 20:52:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Not biologically sound? Not so fast- bumblebees should not realistically be able to fly either- yet tehy can and do.
Bumblebee flight has since been explained. It did appear, at one point, that their flight was not mechanically feasible -- but that was because of an imperfect understanding of what all goes on when bumblebees fly. This has since been re-examined and explained. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Sep 2012 20:52:57 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2012 : 02:51:30
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Why are people trying to argue that a bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly? I hope it's not because a bumble bee's wings are not gigantic in proportion to it's body. Everything insects do is MUCH more efficient because of their small size. Larger animals can't even come close to the same type of efficiency. Just look at what an ant can lift for a great example.  |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 01 Oct 2012 02:51:47 |
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Dragons need str for their flight?
