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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
 Posted - 09 May 2012 : 19:01:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Why is this so shocking? Seriously... like Elminster hasn't been a drow before?
He's been a woman, he polymorphs into different men ALL THE TIME (old, young)... hasn't he even been a dragon?
This strikes me as one of the more typical things I'd expect of him, not even remotely shocking.
-There's also a big difference between knowing something theoretically exists (child abuse) and seeing it happen right in front of your eyes (someone beats the crap out of a kid with you standing there). The former doesn't have the 'intimacy' that the latter has, which makes it more shocking, even though you know it happens. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 20:45:04
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Wow.
And I thought I made some truly bizarre comparisons. 
Lets put it this way - if he had changed into ANYTHING else (aside from an Aboleth), I could just hand-wave it, but this is a bit too much of an obvious 'theatrical' device for me.
However, what I want and what I like shouldn't matter one whit, and if this is what it will take to grow the IP, then so be it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 21:41:25
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Note: Elminster hasn't changed or transformed into anything. Nor can he, these days.
He's (living) ash. That's it.
Thus far he's occupied and rode willing minds/bodies.
I'm curious if the "fallen dark elf" is barely alive or perhaps newly dead. If the former, will Elminster have to strike an accord with the dark elf? If the later...well I'm curious how that will work out. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 22:23:13
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@Markus
Of course this is no coincidence and has to do something (all?) with Rise of the Underdark. It's playing in the same timeframe and it seems it really will be a huge campaign by the drow.
At least this time we don't have to ask "Why isn't Elminster doing something about it? -Because he is busy doing something else far more importing blabla..."  |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 23:52:36
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| Does anyone feel like El is on a trip like the Sorcerer Supreme? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 01:11:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Does anyone feel like El is on a trip like the Sorcerer Supreme?
I don't think Stephen Strange was ever reduced to living as arcanely-powered ash.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 02:02:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Does anyone feel like El is on a trip like the Sorcerer Supreme?
I don't think Stephen Strange was ever reduced to living as arcanely-powered ash.
Very true...but he did have to fight for the title/position of Sorcerer Supreme. El is doing something similar now, he isn't the greatest spellcaster any longer...but it may be something he can "win back" maybe? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 02:12:49
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On the face of it, I’m slightly annoyed, because it might be more in praise of elves. I’m starting to feel like they get entirely too much praise in this system. That’s just me though, and I’ll admit, there are other factors biasing my opinion.
And no, they have nothing to do with my liking of orcs, goblins, giants, etc, etc.
Still, I’ve not been disappointed by Mr. Greenwood yet, so perhaps what he does will be entertaining in it’s own right.
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We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 03:01:39
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| Does this mean that the drow in the pointy hat driving the wagon on the cover of the upcoming Ed Greenwood's Realms could be none other than the Old Sage? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 10 May 2012 03:03:15 |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 03:15:21
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
I don't see the problem here. The drow are getting artifacts for Lolth, Elminster has to get them back from them. How can he do this better than in the body of a drow?
And though the last I read about him was Elminster must die! I am very interestet in the events leading to this
Wait a minute... they killed Elmenster?
Like Superman?
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We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 03:41:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Does this mean that the drow in the pointy hat driving the wagon on the cover of the upcoming Ed Greenwood's Realms could be none other than the Old Sage?
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 04:11:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Sightless
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
I don't see the problem here. The drow are getting artifacts for Lolth, Elminster has to get them back from them. How can he do this better than in the body of a drow?
And though the last I read about him was Elminster must die! I am very interestet in the events leading to this
Wait a minute... they killed Elmenster?
Like Superman?
Without spoiling too much, I suggest you read Ed Greenwood's Elminster Must Die. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 05:16:37
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I'd love to, but scanning a hard copy is nigh impossible. Well, getting it to come out in an understandable format that is. And since They haven't even brailed the temptation yet, I'll have to wait for a while.
I didn't hear it in an E-book format either, but did check. Hince, my rather impertenant question. Yes, I have the good sense tosee it as such. Well, I'll go back to the relm of not knowing. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 05:47:45
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Wolverine once regenerated from a single drop of blood, so maybe Chosen have a Wolvie-class healing factor. He also beat the vampire curse, which is kinda weird, since Marvel treats vampirism as a magical ailment, not a virus. I suppose chosen are immune to vampirism as well (silver fire won't let it happen).
Maybe Wolverine is really a Chosen of Malar.
What were we talking about again?
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Does this mean that the drow in the pointy hat driving the wagon on the cover of the upcoming Ed Greenwood's Realms could be none other than the Old Sage?
We need a 'hit-the-bullseye' smiley.
Nice catch.
I guess he's gonna stay a drow. 
{sigh} WOD here we come.
I will read this novel, just to see where the realms are headed. Sadly, this bit of news has now tarnished my opinion of Rise of the Underdark, which I had high hopes for. At least the Shar/Lolth thing sounds like it could be interesting.
Hmmmm... Lolth wants to take on Shar, and Elminster's trying to revive Mystra (Shar's nemesis), and El's a drow now...
How does that saying go? "The enemy of my enemy is my friend?" There is hope for this yet. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 May 2012 05:53:54 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 12:35:46
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| I'm not usually one to rant. But I just cannot even begin to address how Eldrizzter the Spellscarred is utterly too wrong on too many levels. It is the final sign, to me the Realms I once loved have now truly fallen and been replaced by some overly-animated World of Wizards version. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 12:48:11
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quote:
quote:Originally posted by Fellfire
Does this mean that the drow in the pointy hat driving the wagon on the cover of the upcoming Ed Greenwood's Realms could be none other than the Old Sage?
We need a 'hit-the-bullseye' smiley.
Yeah.
And yes, I bet it's related to the Rise of the Underdark, and no, I'm not interested. Busy working on my own homebrew world, which won't even use D&D. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 13:44:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Wolverine once regenerated from a single drop of blood, so maybe Chosen have a Wolvie-class healing factor. He also beat the vampire curse, which is kinda weird, since Marvel treats vampirism as a magical ailment, not a virus. I suppose chosen are immune to vampirism as well (silver fire won't let it happen).
Maybe Wolverine is really a Chosen of Malar.
What were we talking about again?
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Does this mean that the drow in the pointy hat driving the wagon on the cover of the upcoming Ed Greenwood's Realms could be none other than the Old Sage?
We need a 'hit-the-bullseye' smiley.
Nice catch.
I guess he's gonna stay a drow.
{sigh} WOD here we come.
I will read this novel, just to see where the realms are headed. Sadly, this bit of news has now tarnished my opinion of Rise of the Underdark, which I had high hopes for. At least the Shar/Lolth thing sounds like it could be interesting.
Hmmmm... Lolth wants to take on Shar, and Elminster's trying to revive Mystra (Shar's nemesis), and El's a drow now...
How does that saying go? "The enemy of my enemy is my friend?" There is hope for this yet.
Or he could be working to pit the two even more off each other. Take them both down a peg or two. And maybe the entire Drow thing wont last the theentire novel. Yeah, that's probably wishful thinking on my part. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 16:22:37
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That's a drow on the cover? I thought it was some sort of undead lich dude.
<goes and takes a second look> |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 16:39:52
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Hi, all.
As there seemed to be so much consternation on the part of some scribes about this, I asked Ed directly about connections between ELMINSTER ENRAGED and the Rise of the Underdark, and here's his reply:
None whatsoever.
When plotting EE, I knew nothing about the Rise of the Underdark (which many not even have existed as a publisher-adopted idea back then). Wizards approved my novel plot, of course, but that doesn't mean the specific staff members doing the approving then are the same staffers guiding the Rise of the Underdark now.
If I was doing marketing, I would probably do just as they've done: play up Elminster becoming a drow. That doesn't mean that's really what the book is about. I've always been far more interested in the characters and their life-journeys than about uber-plot.
So while everyone will have an opinion on whether or not the Rise, or EE, are good or that what happens in them is "right" or "best" for the Realms, it would be wrong to see them as connected, in some sort of dark, half-hidden conspiracy.
Because I never do those. :}
As you yourself know, my good Hooded Lady, It's much more fun to do it all out in the open, and watch the shocked responses.
Ahem. Well, yes, so it is. 
So saith Ed. And there you have it.
Whatever you think of the Rise or of El becoming a drow, the two are NOT connected/orchestrated. (And yes, Markustay, I think it might just have been a joke on Ed's part, on one level, while being a serious part of his book on the other. El the living ash is, after all, bodyhunting...)
love to all,
THO |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 16:50:09
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| I haven't felt this much suspense since waiting to see who shot J.R. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 17:04:24
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I'm pretty sure I shot J.R.
I know I wanted to... still do. Bad enough he let a scantily clad harem girl call him 'master', the cad.
So this is not so much a case of Ed bowing before a corporate order, but rather someone liking his idea and taking it to the extreme.
That I can see - and understand - perfectly. I know Elminster has always had a fondness for drow (his tastes seem to lean toward 'the dark') - there is even a picture of him in a 'hot tub' with one somewhere (the original DotU, perhaps?)
I am sure Ed can't share any details, but has he now been made aware of the details of Rise, and weaving his own tale into that mega-plot? In other words, will they be complimentary, or will they be self-contained?
I think now that I know Rise may have grown out of one of his ideas, I'd prefer for them to sync-up (because if anyone should understand how all that 'Weave-stuff' should work, it is Ed Greenwood). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 17:07:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Whatever you think of the Rise or of El becoming a drow, the two are NOT connected/orchestrated.
I'll be wearing a smug smile all day, methinks. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 19:09:17
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Here's my speculation:
1. Greenwood comes up with plot involving Elminster possessing a drow. -> It's approved.
2. Dudes in office think, "let's run with this idea!" -> Early ideas for Rise of the Underdark.
3. Marketing gets involved, and Rise of the Underdark becomes a multi-crossover deal (novels, game, etc.)
4. Elminster might actually be doing drow-y stuff at the same time RotU is going on, which makes it -seem- connected.
5. Ultimately, it's all thematically related, even if it's not fully tied in to the plot. This makes marketing happy.
It reminds me of an older crossover event in Marvel Comics where a big "world event" was going on, but some comic titles were only peripherally involved. Like during the massacre of the Morlock mutants (long ago) in the tunnels, Power Pack actually went in and saved a few people. But Power Pack wasn't involved at all in the "main storyline" involving the massacre itself.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 19:14:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Whatever you think of the Rise or of El becoming a drow, the two are NOT connected/orchestrated.
I'll be wearing a smug smile all day, methinks.
And this is why you'll always be outside the community rather than a part of it. This constant, snide disdain of other scribes/fans is your one enduring characteristic.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 19:18:50
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| The Realms might as well change its name to drowland considering how much influence this supposedly small population base seems to have on virtually every aspect of the world now. The drow have become an overused plot hook and I would be just as happy if they were permanently written out of the Realms. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 19:53:34
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As for Elminster as a Drow:
I have no feeling on it any longer. I'm rather numb to the direction the Realms is going in...not antagonistic mind you; just a apathetic wait and see feeling I guess.
It did remind me of when I was having to portray Elminster to a party once. I tried to stick as closely to the attitude I had read about him in various sources, and the party was well pleased.
A month later when they returned to speak with Elminster again about a matter, they were very shocked that he seemed to act so much differently. One player even commented immediately "That isn't even close to how he acted before!"
I snugly nodded and said "You seem to be right."
The party went on their way and never brought it up again...not realizing that Lheo had been magically disguised as El who was away on desperate business.
I guess what I'm saying is: how in the hells can anyone know what to expect of the old fella? It isn't like his life lends itself to "normal" behavior.
EDIT: get typing too fast and "Smug" becomes "Snug"...I think I'll leave it as a lesson to myself. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 11 May 2012 06:09:21 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 19:57:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
2. Dudes in office think, "let's run with this idea!" -> Early ideas for Rise of the Underdark.
-Seemingly, you never have to tell them twice to involve lots of Drow stuff. But, hey, it still sells, so I guess when the wheel ain't broke... |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 10 May 2012 19:58:04 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 21:13:26
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| It doesn’t surprise me that Ed didn’t know about Rise of the Underdark. Sadly, Wizards of the Coast prefers to keep their freelancers ignorant of the big picture, even on projects where collaboration would be highly beneficial. Even as lead designer of Menzoberranzan, I was completely oblivious to Rise of the Underdark, and its associated adventure and novel content. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 21:24:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Even as lead designer of Menzoberranzan, I was completely oblivious to Rise of the Underdark, and its associated adventure and novel content.
Ummm...well, that is silly!
It would have been better if you had been able to put something as simple as:
"The Drow Houses are quiet these days...for some reason not conducting nearly as much House to House intrigue and open war."
Something at least. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Elminster a Drow?!
