| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 03:28:31
|
In Empires of the Shining Sea, this event is mentioned in passing. The only detail is that the fleet sailed west into the Trackless Sea, never to be seen again. Shaani ruled from 367-427 DR, so I'm assuming this event happened sometime in between those years. Now I'm not completely familiar with Maztica, so I don't know if its fate ties into that setting at all. I'm going to assume it doesn't.
What do you think happened to it? Do you think there is some lighter-skinned Katashkan tribe, worshiping strange gods and speaking some mutated form of Alzhedo? Or did the Fleet sink, its treasures (if any remain) now scattered among the races of the Deep?
|
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 03:50:47
|
| Love Empires of the Shining Sea, so many great hooks and lore in general. |
 |
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 04:19:20
|
They sailed through a time-portal and landed on the coast of Zakhara thousands of years ago.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 04:46:16
|
| Didn't Zakharans supposedly settle ancient Calimshan? Oh, the paradox! |
Edited by - Dark Wizard on 11 Feb 2012 04:46:37 |
|
|
|
Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 04:48:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
They sailed through a time-portal and landed on the coast of Zakhara thousands of years ago.
That would be really cool, except that the human slaves of the Djen (who mixed with the native proto-Tethyrians and became Calishites) were from Zakhara to begin with, and the chain of human ancestry has to start somewhere. Unless that chain starts with the proto-Tethyrians, and that the physical differences between the Calishites/Zakharans and Tethyrians is merely the result of genie-blood.
Another question: Where did the Djen get the halfling slaves? To this day the Lands of Intrigue and the Western Heartlands have significant numbers of halflings descended from those slaves. These halflings are lightfoots, and IIRC the lightfoots hadn't yet split from the stronghearts in Luiren at the time. Unless the Great Colony Fleet had significant numbers of halfling slaves to be used on the colonies plantations or something. Hmm, Markus, I know you were trying to make a joke but I think you just cleared up an inconsistency in Realmslore (are there halflings in Zakhara, even?) |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 04:58:00
|
What if the fleet was blown north somewhat and made landfall on the continent north of Maztica? (It's not Ed's Anchorome, so I won't use that name for it.) Although... there is much to be said for Mark's theory... I do love a good paradox.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 05:02:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Another question: Where did the Djen get the halfling slaves? To this day the Lands of Intrigue and the Western Heartlands have significant numbers of halflings descended from those slaves. These halflings are lightfoots, and IIRC the lightfoots hadn't yet split from the stronghearts in Luiren at the time. Unless the Great Colony Fleet had significant numbers of halfling slaves to be used on the colonies plantations or something. Hmm, Markus, I know you were trying to make a joke but I think you just cleared up an inconsistency in Realmslore (are there halflings in Zakhara, even?)
 This keeps getting better... I may be using this... I'll want to double-check the dates, of course, and I'm too tired to do so right now (I work tomorrow and all that)... but this sounds brilliant!  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 05:03:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
What do you think happened to it? Do you think there is some lighter-skinned Katashkan tribe, worshiping strange gods and speaking some mutated form of Alzhedo?
The Katashkan theory is interesting. Especially when you consider that Brian has previously posited [in the fourth volume of the Candlekeep Compendium], that both the Tabaxi and Eshowe tribes of Chult could conceivably trace their ancient ancestry all the way back Katashaka.
There's no reason why another tribe couldn't have made it's way further north, bypassing the Chultan peninsula altogether, and then heading further west into the uncharted reaches of the Trackless Sea.
Perhaps the expedition leaders of the fleet heard rumours of some long lost Katashkan colony far off into the west, and sought "permission" from the Qysara to rediscover the ancient civilisation and profit from any treasures it uncovered. [I say "permission," because I suspect Shaani was more than likely manipulated by the wealthy elite of her court to support the expedition. Undoubtedly, she would probably never be able to lay claim to anything the explorers discovered.]
quote:
Or did the Fleet sink, its treasures (if any remain) now scattered among the races of the Deep?
I think it's more fun to postulate that the expedition found "something" of supreme power and/or value on a small island/landmass, and simply either failed to report back to the Imperium, or deliberately chose not to communicate back [using deadly methods to "silence" those agents among the fleet who were loyal to the Qysara, I suppose] what they found for fears that others would come to see/claim for themselves, whatever lost Katashkan relics the expedition found.
For all we know, the Great Colony Fleet eventually founded their own small kingdom on the ruins of the lost Katashkan cities they found "out there." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 05:07:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
Didn't Zakharans supposedly settle ancient Calimshan? Oh, the paradox!
Unless I'm forgetting some snippet of lore that suggests this interesting little tidbit, I think you might be mistaking the ancient Bedine ancestors who moved from Zakhara to Anauroch. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 05:39:05
|
I recall a hint in either the FR sources on the Calimshan region or the Al-Qadim books, basically what Eladrinstar posted above about the Djen slaves.
Having the fleet land in 'Anchorome' may be a good element to add if one doesn't like a plain North America analogue for the setting or would prefer something tied to Faerun. I would put elves there as well, the two could come into conflict or competition. A good start to developing a new continent. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 21:19:55
|
It WAS just a hint - and I believe Steven said as much, but purposely left it 'ambiguous' so that individual campaigns can spin it their own way.
As for the halflings - I believe there is a canon entry in the GHotR that states when they first 'appeared', and yet we have the info from the Calimshan material that shows they arrived much earlier.
I have the halflings as the original natives of Zakahra - humans came later. Imagine Athasian halflings... who aren't quite so hungry. 
I have also theorized about a new fey race called the 'Ling', hence the name. A small, shaggy-legged capricious creature, that was a forerunner of the fauns and satyrs (amongst others). Hence, the name 'Half-Ling' (humans will mate with anything - we are an unsavory lot). 
On the other hand, what if the opposite were true? What if halflings and Ogres crossbred? In the halfling tongue, are humans called 'half-Hin'? On Athas, supposedly all races are descended from halflings.
Anyhow, regarding the OP: I had created some lore (in my CKC article and beyond) regarding using Nyambe in the Realms (not my idea, but a very good one) for Katashaka, and there is an Arabian-like culture there, and I had theorized that they were a Zakharan colony. However, I was unaware of this bit of lore when I wrote that - what if that culture were the descendents of that lost colony fleet?
I'd rather place them down in northern katashaka - another Arabian-flavored culture in Anchorome would just be worsening an already super-redundant trope in FR (unless some weird yet kewl amalgam of native American and Middle-Eastern culture could be created).
That nation is called Boroko, and can be seen HERE. I twisted the shape of Katashake a wee bit on my maps to conform to Nyambe better, and I believe others (fan cartographers) have carried that forward. Basically, I just added a small peninsula to the SE corner. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 11 Feb 2012 21:35:05 |
|
|
|
Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 22:06:23
|
From Empires of the Shining Sea (TSR-9561)
quote:
It is uncertain whether the Djen came from the Elemental Plane of Air or some other interim location. Some theorists from the Burning lands of Zakhara and learned scholars of the Herald's Holdfast posit that the Great Arrival may have been a temporal gate initiated from Zakhara. These conclusions are based on some evidence linking early Calishite clothing, architectural, and art styles to similar styles in Zakhara approximately 500 years ago. The Djen slaves were smaller than the tall, broad-shouldered natives of the Calimshan region, and their skintone was duskier than that of the native humans. These facts would also seem to support a migration from a place similar to Zakhara, many of whose natives share those ethnographic traits
So the time portal theory mentioned earlier could be not far off the mark, but then this happened 500 years ago from the time of writing of the EotSS (i.e. around 870 DR) and these Zakharans arrived in Calimshan 'back in time' almost eight centuries before Dale Reckoning started. Since the Djen brought lightfoot halfling slaves along, this jump back in time could allow for the presence of lightfoot halflings prior to the emergence of the subrace... nice paradox indeed. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 01:59:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I have the halflings as the original natives of Zakahra - humans came later. Imagine Athasian halflings... who aren't quite so hungry.
Hmmm. I like that idea.
As I was saying to Arivia the other day in another scroll discussion, I've been trying to find a way to incorporate either Athasian-style halfings and/or the Jeren from 3e's Book of Vile Darkness into a small part of my Realms.
While I wouldn't make them the original natives of Zakhara -- simply because I already have my own theories on that prospect -- I also can't see why these halflings can't have a backstory that ties them to the desert-region of the Land of Fate.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 02:33:01
|
@Mumadar - Just because the clothing 'appeared that way' doesn't mean it is the precise point in time they came from. Styles do tend to 'come around again'. In other words, very similar clothes may have been worn nine thousand years ago in Zakhara.
I had some homebrew lore about this - don't know if I ever posted it. It was part of my 'extended timeline', trying to blend the other settings better with Faerun.
Basically, after the Scattering of Fate, there were no humans in central Zakahara (just on the fringes, islands, bordering lands, etc), and genies took this opportunity to establish their own empires. In the end, there were four elemental empires, which lasted several centuries, until they began to turn on each other. One by one the losers were driven-off (or forced to accept vassalage), until only Memnon remained. The other Noble Dgen fled to Calimshan, far to the north, and built their kingdoms anew.
No-one knew what really happened back in Zakhara - what drove the immensely power efreeti Lord form those lands, but after a thousand years, he too arrived in Calimshan (some say with his tail between his legs).
Little by little people returned to the Land of Fate from the surrounding regions; the humans, elves, and dwarves. They found a land much more bleak then their ancient tales had told, but they were home. As for the hin - the small folk of the hinterlands - they were no more. Eventually, new 'small folk' arrived from across the sea from Luiren, some to trade and some to settle, but as for the their ancient forbears, no trace was found. Some believe they are still there, hidden and feral... "the hills have eyes" they say... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 12 Feb 2012 17:02:03 |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 03:34:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I have the halflings as the original natives of Zakahra - humans came later. Imagine Athasian halflings... who aren't quite so hungry.
Hmmm. I like that idea.
As I was saying to Arivia the other day in another scroll discussion, I've been trying to find a way to incorporate either Athasian-style halfings and/or the Jeren from 3e's Book of Vile Darkness into a small part of my Realms.
While I wouldn't make them the original natives of Zakhara -- simply because I already have my own theories on that prospect -- I also can't see why these halflings can't have a backstory that ties them to the desert-region of the Land of Fate.
(bold added)
Any theories you'd care to share, Sage? As for the Jeren or Athasian halflings, I think they'd work best as the descendants of a population that was hunted to near-extinction by powerful xenophobic neighbours... perhaps something the Imaskari were responsible for? Then the halflings could even be desert-dwellers. This fits the Athasians best (I would say they acquired their cannibalistic tendencies after being decimated by the Imaskari); for the Jeren (with which I am not as familiar), one possible option is to put them in the Unapproachable East; maybe they were nearly wiped out by the Nar-Raumathari wars, and developed their (to other races) sociopathic behaviours as a result of being threatened with extinction. Just a thought. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
The Great Colony Fleet of Qysara Shaani
