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Originally posted by MalariaMoon
Whilst I'm not a fan of the Spellplague changes, I'd like to see the Realms continue moving forward (both conceptually and chronologically). One of the motivations behind the 4E changes was that the sheer depth of lore was one of the thing that prevented new fans entering the Realms. That's a valid criticism, but I think it was also the foremost thing that made the Realms stand out from all the other fantasy world's; the sheer depth of lore (for good or ill).

The 4E Realms has been about wide sketches; with the details for DMs to ink in. Again, that makes sense, but I think it weakens the Realms. I want MORE LORE! I hope the Realms in 5E goes about filling in a lot of those details for us. Give us the stories and characters of the new era, and eventually they'll become as iconic as those from the "good old days" of the Realms. I want books full of fluff in dense print, I want the people who understand the Realms to start making it complicated again. I want sourcebooks a la Lands of Intrigue. I want Volo's Guide to Returned Abeir. Give the new landscape some Realms personality. Give Ed as much money as he needs to just churn out Realmslore at will on whatever topic he sees fit.

Some DMs like trying to thread their stories through mountains of established canon. Maybe it's a bit more work, but it's incredibly rewarding (for me at any rate).

I definitely wouldn't like to see all the old sourcebooks reprinted with new rules. I'd like a lot less RSEs, but thirty years on it would be fun to look back at the Spellplague and then argue about the state of the Realms in 1685 DR!

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Originally posted by Brimstone

Can people please quit using the term "shattered". Thats like spitting in Ed's and the other freelancer's face.

Now wonder this forum has the rep of being a grognard forum.

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Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin

*In nasal nerd-tone*

Can you provide some hard numbers to back-up these claims, Brimstone?

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Originally posted by Brimstone

Can people please quit using the term "shattered". Thats like spitting in Ed's and the other freelancer's face.

Now wonder this forum has the rep of being a grognard forum.

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Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin

Clearly not often enough to spur Candlekeep's Mods to work to bring an end to the defamation of the current design work.

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Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin

Clearly not often enough to spur Candlekeep's Mods to work to bring an end to the defamation of the current design work.

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Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin

Clearly not often enough to spur Candlekeep's Mods to work to bring an end to the defamation of the current design work.

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Old Man Harpell

Of course (as I have said), I don't miss Khelben. That's the one exception.

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Originally posted by Ayrik

Six down, eight to go.

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Originally posted by Ayrik

You'll note that none of the recent Candlekeep threads discussing 5E were initiated by Wizbro people, and the fact is that they have been largely silent observers carefully confirming/denying nothing significant while these scrolls circle through endless 4E/Spellplague bashing arguments*.
...
* Except for ESdB, who is technically a freelancer and not a real Wizbro employee anyhow. He has withdrawn from a few of these scrolls after issuing his own rants to condemn the discussions themselves for being unproductive and futile.

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Originally posted by Therise

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Originally posted by Markustay

Yes, Dragonborn should lay eggs, and they can correct that now (thats not a major thing, so it can be retconned in a soft reboot). Genasi & Tieflings have always been around - just give us a little bit more lore about where these larger groups have been 'hiding' (I've covered this exact point in several threads already).

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Try convincing the fanboys that they should give up their male Dragonborn character's peen and telling them they all have cloacas now. I dare you. We'll see how they react to a "soft" reboot.

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Originally posted by Brimstone

No wonder why the WotC designers don't come here anymore. Kinda surprised that that the freelancers come here at all.

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Erik Scott de Bie

Woah, woah, hold up--this is really the perception that I've fostered? In point of fact, I bailed from ONE thread because it was turning into a big anti-4e argument, and I put in ONE mini-rant about the very old, very established (as in, "this I, Erik Scott de Bie, believe") point of "like it or not, 4e FR *is* a part of the Realms, and not some *other setting* to be cast aside." I think this is an incorrect and unfair portrayal of my involvement in these threads.
...
Well, speaking for myself, I keep coming back because I love the Realms, love the site, and find really interesting discussions here. I'm not gonna lie--some of it does indeed make me heartsick, but maybe I'm kind of a masochist.

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Tyrant

If [female dragonborn] aren't mammals, there isn't much reason for them to have breasts.

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Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin

@Sage
Do something about the defamation of Realms on this site.

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Originally posted by Ayrik

I'd oft wondered whether Abeir was the saurial homeworld. Although I might just be lumping all the "reptiles" together for mental convenience. Still, the differences between saurial and dragonborn groups seem to superficially be not a lot more than the differences between those of elves and dwarves.

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Originally posted by Ayrik

I'd oft wondered whether Abeir was the saurial homeworld. Although I might just be lumping all the "reptiles" together for mental convenience. Still, the differences between saurial and dragonborn groups seem to superficially be not a lot more than the differences between those of elves and dwarves.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Ayrik

I'd oft wondered whether Abeir was the saurial homeworld. Although I might just be lumping all the "reptiles" together for mental convenience. Still, the differences between saurial and dragonborn groups seem to superficially be not a lot more than the differences between those of elves and dwarves.

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I've never liked that explanation, myself. I feel that there are sufficient differences between dragonborn and saurials to believe they hail from entirely different worlds.

Also, Moander being able to connect to Abeir would mean that contact between the two worlds wasn't all that difficult. This, I think, conflicts with the idea of it being a world separated from Toril to keep primordials and deities apart. Further, if contact between the worlds was that easy, we'd have seen contact between the two prior to the Spellplague.

A possible connection, though, that occurs to me: the sarrukh. Perhaps both races, saurial and dragonborn, were created at different times, and for different purporses, by the sarrukh?

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Originally posted by Ayrik

Moander was a rotten guy.

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Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin

@Sage
Do something about the defamation of Realms on this site.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Ayrik

I'd oft wondered whether Abeir was the saurial homeworld. Although I might just be lumping all the "reptiles" together for mental convenience. Still, the differences between saurial and dragonborn groups seem to superficially be not a lot more than the differences between those of elves and dwarves.

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I've never liked that explanation, myself. I feel that there are sufficient differences between dragonborn and saurials to believe they hail from entirely different worlds.

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Originally posted by Ayrik

Ah Sage, have ye forgotten that saurials were originally a 1E then 2E invention, largely left undetailed until mid 3E? This is important insofar as the very term "Prime Material Plane" had been altered several times between and within D&D editions, carrying many different definitions which in some cases are mutually incompatible ... then the arrival of Abeir along with 4E planeslore redefined and obfuscated things even further.

So the saurial homeworld might be a parallel version of Toril, a parallel version of non-Toril, an entirely different world within a distant crystal sphere, part of the same plane or one of infinite variations on that plane, or another plane altogether ... you get the idea. Unless saurial origins are restated in a way which complies with 4E planeslore (or Abeir can be canonically positioned within 2E planeslore), I think it's not at all impossible for them to have originated in Abeir.

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Originally posted by Ayrik

Dang those meddling gods and their pantheons!

[Edit]

Don't people worship these - what are they called? - ah, these "Primordials" on Abeir? Are any of these worshipped in Laerakond and Tymanther?

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Originally posted by Ayrik

FWIW, I happen to agree with the views you expressed during your one brief moment of illucid rage. There have been times during these discussions when I, too, would like to slap people who don't bother to consider what's been said before giving voice to argument. Welcome to the internet, where the most important skill in communication is sometimes just knowing when not to speak, lol.

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