Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Reboot of the Realms for 5th edition.
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 22

Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2012 :  16:39:48  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

So you're view on the Realms is more important than some kid that started reading the books these past couple of years? I don't understand why is has to be an all-or-nothing approach.
While Matt and I don't necessarily agree on the business model that WotC should be using for D&D Next, I do agree with him here. As a rabid fan of the Realms since about 1994 (or 95, I don't exactly remember; wow, is it really pushing 20 years? ), I think that an edition-inclusive Realms is a must going forward. By naming Ed the lead on the D&D Next (I really wish they would just call it D&D 5e) Realms, they have taken an important first step in going the right direction. I just hope that the hire some of the people mentioned in this scroll to help him (as a game designer working on project only 64 pages long, I am beginning to understand just how difficult it would be to do alone).

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2012 :  17:52:12  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Varl

This sounds like an incredibly tough business to break into then, if no publishing organizations will accept unsolicited material due to liabilities. I guess that's why I'm a gamer and not a writer.
Actually, with the internet and the way things work today, its far easier to get published.

So long as you have talent.

All you need is a following - thousands of idiots do it every day on Youtube. Some of them even get TV shows out of it (at least two I can think of in the past week).

Write the stories, publish them yourself, get the fans, and the publishers will find you. Find what your good at, and get your name out there. Its easier then ever.

And then there are things like Paizo's writing contests....

As for the subject at hand: The 'all or nothing' approach is not a conscious decision... at least not for me. I have absolutely no interest in reading about anything that happens post-plague (or, at least, past 1400 DR or so). I had a helluva time finishing Elminster Must Die, and I have no interest in finishing the story with the next two installments. Thats NOT the setting I became a fan of. It has nothing to do with the writing quality or anything like that - I just find myself uninterested in it. Thats not something I can change my mind about - I have no control over it.

If novels are written in an era I care about, I will read them. If not, then no - there really is no changing my mind about this. If 4e is an 'acquired taste', then I do not wish to waste time acquiring it.

The one exception to this are novels written in manner where you don't even notice the era they take place in - Rich Baker's BotM series is a good example (I liked it). Thats because it took place somewhere we knew next to nothing about, so the changes went completely unnoticed.

Thats not going to happen with Cormyr or Waterdeep - we know those places too well (and I didn't enjoy any 4e+ novels set there - I tried). So unless 5e concentrates ONLY on areas where very little is known, or takes place in the past*, I don't see myself reading 5e novels very much.


*Hopefully the 'open timeline' thing will at least allow me to still enjoy FR by providing stories that take place during the era in which I care about the Realms.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 22 Jun 2012 18:00:54
Go to Top of Page

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3566 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2012 :  18:22:34  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Varl

This sounds like an incredibly tough business to break into then, if no publishing organizations will accept unsolicited material due to liabilities. I guess that's why I'm a gamer and not a writer.


-Only because it's their IP. As long as you have the money, you can find a printing house that will publish original work that you write. There's a whole lot of schlock out there, so you don't even need to have skill; dollars will get you far. WotC decides the direction they want their IP to go, so they have WotC employees do it (via sourcebooks, or novels by guys like Bruce Cordell or Rich Baker, who are/were fully employed with the company) or freelancers that, through whatever means, they reached out to (Ed Greenwood, for example). They come to you; you don't go to them.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
Go to Top of Page

Apex
Learned Scribe

USA
229 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2012 :  20:18:31  Show Profile  Visit Apex's Homepage Send Apex a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am all for a complete reboot. Possibly to the Gray Box or maybe a decade or two before even. Nothing says that the setting need even change (ie eliminating all that comes later), only that the default timeline would be set somewhere in the 1330-1357 range. There were so many things skipped over that occurred during the early Realms (and stuff that happened right before the Gray Box) that could get (and deserve) detailed treatment (whether in novel or supplement form). And for anyone that likes the less lore dependent 4E Realms, nothing would stop them from utilizing that as well.

The reality is that any new (and by new I mean after the reboot takes place) will likely fall into the rebooted Realms (just like most new gamers today fall into the 4E Realms), while WoTC would likely gain back a significant number of us long time Realms fans (many of whom are in our peak earning/disposable income years).
Go to Top of Page

Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
917 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2012 :  22:40:31  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Rarely does anyone work on a book solely by themselves. If I had to venture a guess, Ed would lead a project and provide oversight, while faithful minions do his dark biding. Either way, it's all about collaboration. Hopefully any assembled team will do their best to mimic the greatest aspects of the Forgotten Realms.

Edited by - Matt James on 22 Jun 2012 22:41:00
Go to Top of Page

arry
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
317 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2012 :  11:05:59  Show Profile Send arry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If esteemed WotC produce material set in the pre-Spellplague Realms I will buy it; if not, I won't.
Go to Top of Page

LordXenophon
Learned Scribe

USA
144 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2012 :  20:50:33  Show Profile Send LordXenophon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It doesn't really matter. I won't buy it. Faerun changes because of an advancing story line and the actions of my players, not because some paper pusher decides to toss all my notes in the shredder and sell me new ones.

My version of Faerun is already significantly different from the "official" versain, in some pretty big ways. Khelben and King Azoun are still alive, half the "Wyrms of the North" are not, the Sithylesian Empire is growing out of control because of player indifference, There are two Manshoon clones working together as a team (both altered, so they don't count as "true" clones), there are temples of Waukeen, Sharess, Lliira and Umberlee in Waterdeep, the temple of Sune in Waterdeep is much larger and grander than in the books (due to generous player donations), Danilo Thann is one of the Lords of Waterdeep, Castle Dragonspear is being rebuilt (the players hope), the city of Llorkh burned down, Mystra is still Midnight, Adon is sane, Cyric is still a threat, the Spires of Morning had to be almost completely rebuilt after a Beholder attack collapsed one of the glass towers, the city of Waterdeep has grown well beyond the borders of the official map, the same has happened to Baldur's Gate, hydras are now a bigger problem than trolls for farmers on the Sword Coast (because certain players were so zealous about wiping out the trolls), you can sail from the Lake of Steam to the Inner Sea by way of the Sespech Canal (the player who built it went bankrupt) and there's a new order of knights who worship Helm (called the Knights of Helm).

You may call this digression. You may call it non-canon or even anti-canon. I call it progress. I'm not throwing it all away to conform to a "new canon."

Disintegration is in the eye of the Beholder.
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34941 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2012 :  22:10:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordXenophon

Danilo Thann is one of the Lords of Waterdeep,


That's actually canon. He was a Lord, for a time, but later gave up his helm.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1427 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2012 :  22:21:42  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordXenophon

It doesn't really matter. I won't buy it. Faerun changes because of an advancing story line and the actions of my players, not because some paper pusher decides to toss all my notes in the shredder and sell me new ones.

My version of Faerun is already significantly different from the "official" versain, in some pretty big ways. Khelben and King Azoun are still alive, half the "Wyrms of the North" are not, the Sithylesian Empire is growing out of control because of player indifference, There are two Manshoon clones working together as a team (both altered, so they don't count as "true" clones), there are temples of Waukeen, Sharess, Lliira and Umberlee in Waterdeep, the temple of Sune in Waterdeep is much larger and grander than in the books (due to generous player donations), Danilo Thann is one of the Lords of Waterdeep, Castle Dragonspear is being rebuilt (the players hope), the city of Llorkh burned down, Mystra is still Midnight, Adon is sane, Cyric is still a threat, the Spires of Morning had to be almost completely rebuilt after a Beholder attack collapsed one of the glass towers, the city of Waterdeep has grown well beyond the borders of the official map, the same has happened to Baldur's Gate, hydras are now a bigger problem than trolls for farmers on the Sword Coast (because certain players were so zealous about wiping out the trolls), you can sail from the Lake of Steam to the Inner Sea by way of the Sespech Canal (the player who built it went bankrupt) and there's a new order of knights who worship Helm (called the Knights of Helm).

You may call this digression. You may call it non-canon or even anti-canon. I call it progress. I'm not throwing it all away to conform to a "new canon."



Nothing wrong with altering the Realms to what a person wants. I like reading stuff like this because it's interesting to see how various DM's run their worlds.
Go to Top of Page

see
Learned Scribe

231 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2012 :  22:33:46  Show Profile Send see a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

I don't understand why is has to be an all-or-nothing approach.


Because people felt betrayed by the changes made to the Realms in 2007-2008. Insofar as a product includes those changes, they are reminded of and re-feel the betrayal. And few people are willing to pay money to feel betrayed.

You can shout all day that the people who felt betrayed are being irrational. That's not going to change their spending decisions. After all, the reason they became FR fans in the first place was an emotional reaction. You can give them product completely free of anything that reminds them of the betrayal, or you can write off their money.
Go to Top of Page

Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
917 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2012 :  22:51:52  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That does not favor your position. My point still remains. It's a prisoner's delima at this point.
Go to Top of Page

Varl
Learned Scribe

USA
278 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  01:14:17  Show Profile Send Varl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordXenophon

It doesn't really matter. I won't buy it. Faerun changes because of an advancing story line and the actions of my players, not because some paper pusher decides to toss all my notes in the shredder and sell me new ones.

My version of Faerun is already significantly different from the "official" versain, in some pretty big ways. Khelben and King Azoun are still alive, half the "Wyrms of the North" are not, the Sithylesian Empire is growing out of control because of player indifference, There are two Manshoon clones working together as a team (both altered, so they don't count as "true" clones), there are temples of Waukeen, Sharess, Lliira and Umberlee in Waterdeep, the temple of Sune in Waterdeep is much larger and grander than in the books (due to generous player donations), Danilo Thann is one of the Lords of Waterdeep, Castle Dragonspear is being rebuilt (the players hope), the city of Llorkh burned down, Mystra is still Midnight, Adon is sane, Cyric is still a threat, the Spires of Morning had to be almost completely rebuilt after a Beholder attack collapsed one of the glass towers, the city of Waterdeep has grown well beyond the borders of the official map, the same has happened to Baldur's Gate, hydras are now a bigger problem than trolls for farmers on the Sword Coast (because certain players were so zealous about wiping out the trolls), you can sail from the Lake of Steam to the Inner Sea by way of the Sespech Canal (the player who built it went bankrupt) and there's a new order of knights who worship Helm (called the Knights of Helm).

You may call this digression. You may call it non-canon or even anti-canon. I call it progress. I'm not throwing it all away to conform to a "new canon."



All of this is pure, beautiful win. Growth in the Realms is SO much more than what is officially released. Imagine if everyone offered up snippets of similar Realms changes like these that they've enacted on their game for inspiration to others.

I wish I could say my changes were as colorful. I salute you, Xenophon.

"Intimidation is a weapon of the Legion. Intelligence is not." -Illidan Stormrage
Go to Top of Page

Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
917 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  02:17:43  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This thread is of no use to anyone who is forging their own path in the Realms, yes?
Go to Top of Page

Tarlyn
Learned Scribe

USA
313 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  02:40:51  Show Profile Send Tarlyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally post by Matt James
This thread is of no use to anyone who is forging their own path in the Realms, yes?


What do you even mean? By the same logic won't all threads be of no use to anyone "forging their own path"?

Tarlyn Embersun
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4096 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  02:57:01  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn

quote:
Originally post by Matt James
This thread is of no use to anyone who is forging their own path in the Realms, yes?


What do you even mean? By the same logic won't all threads be of no use to anyone "forging their own path"?



That is exactly what he is saying: a reboot is useless. Everyone already has their "own Forgotten Realms" and so doing a reboot doesn't make sense from a business point of view.

It is in their best interest to forge ahead, and sell product that will appeal to the widest variety of nerds like me.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
Go to Top of Page

Tarlyn
Learned Scribe

USA
313 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  03:24:42  Show Profile Send Tarlyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
That is exactly what he is saying: a reboot is useless. Everyone already has their "own Forgotten Realms" and so doing a reboot doesn't make sense from a business point of view.


Making a product that helps people develop their "own Forgotten Realms" is what the discussion is about. Why buy Realms products at all, they will all contradict some deviation for a given campaign? Using the same line of logic, continuing making products in the 4e realms is equally unnecessary, because it will not be in line with every FR groups campaign setting. So, any product following that brilliant line of reasoning is worthless, the conclusion this leads to is just don't make realms products at all.

Which clearly isn't the point of the discussion here and does not add anything constructive. Everyone has their own Realms, those asking for a reboot find 4e products to have a low value add to their campaigns.

From a business point of view, the only thing that matters is producing a product that will sell to the largest number of customers and continue to sell in the future.


Tarlyn Embersun
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4096 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  03:36:06  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
That is exactly what he is saying: a reboot is useless. Everyone already has their "own Forgotten Realms" and so doing a reboot doesn't make sense from a business point of view.


Making a product that helps people develop their "own Forgotten Realms" is what the discussion is about. Why buy Realms products at all, they will all contradict some deviation for a given campaign? Using the same line of logic, continuing making products in the 4e realms is equally unnecessary, because it will not be in line with every FR groups campaign setting. So, any product following that brilliant line of reasoning is worthless, the conclusion this leads to is just don't make realms products at all.

Which clearly isn't the point of the discussion here and does not add anything constructive. Everyone has their own Realms, those asking for a reboot find 4e products to have a low value add to their campaigns.

From a business point of view, the only thing that matters is producing a product that will sell to the largest number of customers and continue to sell in the future.



Doesn't add anything constructive?

quote:

It is in their best interest to forge ahead, and sell product that will appeal to the widest variety of nerds like me.



vs. your own:

quote:

From a business point of view, the only thing that matters is producing a product that will sell to the largest number of customers and continue to sell in the future.



Either you are agreeing with me...or you don't realize you are agreeing with me...

Either way, having a contrary point of view doesn't mean "not contributing" to the discussion. I would be the FIRST in line to buy a reboot of the Forgotten Realms...hells, I run an AD&D game in the Old Grey Box!

Your not so subtle insult ("So, any product following that brilliant line of reasoning is worthless, the conclusion this leads to is just don't make realms products at all.") is noted. But I wasn't saying NOT TO MAKE PRODUCTS...I said doing a Reboot is not in their best interests.

If I've misunderstood your intended meaning, please let me know...I'm willing to converse without being insulting.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
Go to Top of Page

Tarlyn
Learned Scribe

USA
313 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  04:27:14  Show Profile Send Tarlyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordXenophon
It doesn't really matter. I won't buy it. Faerun changes because of an advancing story line and the actions of my players, not because some paper pusher decides to toss all my notes in the shredder and sell me new ones.

My version of Faerun is already significantly different from the "official" versain, in some pretty big ways. Khelben and King Azoun are still alive, half the "Wyrms of the North" are not, the Sithylesian Empire is growing out of control because of player indifference, There are two Manshoon clones working together as a team (both altered, so they don't count as "true" clones), there are temples of Waukeen, Sharess, Lliira and Umberlee in Waterdeep, the temple of Sune in Waterdeep is much larger and grander than in the books (due to generous player donations), Danilo Thann is one of the Lords of Waterdeep, Castle Dragonspear is being rebuilt (the players hope), the city of Llorkh burned down, Mystra is still Midnight, Adon is sane, Cyric is still a threat, the Spires of Morning had to be almost completely rebuilt after a Beholder attack collapsed one of the glass towers, the city of Waterdeep has grown well beyond the borders of the official map, the same has happened to Baldur's Gate, hydras are now a bigger problem than trolls for farmers on the Sword Coast (because certain players were so zealous about wiping out the trolls), you can sail from the Lake of Steam to the Inner Sea by way of the Sespech Canal (the player who built it went bankrupt) and there's a new order of knights who worship Helm (called the Knights of Helm).

You may call this digression. You may call it non-canon or even anti-canon. I call it progress. I'm not throwing it all away to conform to a "new canon."


I was discussing this quote and Mr.James response to it. Notice that "It doesn't really matter. I won't buy it. Faerun changes because of an advancing story line and the actions of my players, not because some paper pusher decides to toss all my notes in the shredder and sell me new ones"

If you have no interest in buying anything, the posters quote doesn't mention what edition is being used, you really are just saying don't make products. Mr. James seems to interpret this as the poster would happily buy a non-reboot product. I feel that commenting that: "This thread is of no use to anyone who is forging their own path in the Realms, yes?" because a poster stated they have no interested in purchasing any product is nonconstructive. Continuing any realms product is equally unhelpful to the above poster. The line of logic that this advocates does not invalid this scroll it invalidates all scrolls.

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
That is exactly what he is saying: a reboot is useless. Everyone already has their "own Forgotten Realms" and so doing a reboot doesn't make sense from a business point of view.

I agree that this is a fair explanation of what I gathered from Mr. James commentary as well. I think Mr. James logic is indeed brilliant, since he apparently advocates not producing realms products. Since everyone has their own forgotten realms and does not need any product support.

As far as your comment below, I have no idea which version of FR you support, or if you are a brand loyalist and love them all equally.

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
It is in their best interest to forge ahead, and sell product that will appeal to the widest variety of nerds like me.


But my statement was to indicate that from a business point of view the only thing that matters is acquiring money. I have no idea if my personal preference for split timelines / a reboot would be profitable for WotC, or for that matter "if nerds like yourself" are a larger market than say "nerds not like yourself". However, if we want to talk about what is best from a business point of view, all that matters is which will sell more. Your statement indicates that their are more people holding your preference than any other preference. I don't think that their is any actual evidence to support this claim. Since WotC does not release their sales data or marketing data, it makes discussing things from a business perspective rather difficult and uninteresting due to the lack of any available evidence.


Tarlyn Embersun
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34941 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  05:00:38  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, folks, perhaps we all need to step back from this discussion for a moment or two...

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
486 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  07:53:58  Show Profile Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Okay, folks, perhaps we all need to step back from this discussion for a moment or two...



I was thinking the same thing. WotC boards, anyone?

Did I miss somewhere where it said the entire reboot thing was up for debate? Correct me if I'm wrong, Wizbro said there will be absolutely no reboot, no way, no how. For me, that decides it right there - a reboot is not in the works. Please keep in mind that you can read something by Therise on the subject, and almost word for word, you will be reading my own opinion as well, as you absorb her analysis of what we have been given for 4th Edition (and please believe that the word 'complimentary' will not come to mind as you do). I only part ways with her in my refusal to believe it cannot be fixed.

I do not, however, believe that Wizbro's in-house staff has the chops to un-dork what they did without making an ever bigger mess. That is my sad analysis, and I believe, the state of affairs as it exists. I could be wrong - All Gods that have ever walked our humble Earth, please let me be wrong - but I don't think I am.

So...what does that leave us? Seriously - we should all of us be concentrating, academic discussion though it may be, on what is possible. Those things are, realistically:

*Alternate timeline. This is not a reboot, but something published in addition to the official work. We're sort of getting that this October(?) when Ed's version of the Realms will come to us. That is not, admittedly, an official 'alternate timeline', but it is likely as close to the beloved Old Grey Box as we are likely to get. Can we hope for something else? Yes, yes we can, but only if Wizbro figures out that it is not only possible to support multiple iterations of their flagship game world, but desirable as well.

*Moving forward, and making the Shattered Realms back into the Forgotten Realms. Not a reboot (because keep in mind, it will not happen - it just won't), but fixing all the gawdsawful things they did in a logical, forward-moving manner. ESdB's 'One Realms' (etc) scroll is meant to do just this. We can have it all back - we just need to make Wizbro understand how we want it all back without giving them an ultimatum that, ultimately, they aren't going to bend to. We just need to make sure they don't make even more of those ridiculously gawdsawful 'good ideas' on the way to undoing their...ah...'good ideas'.

And we need to impress upon them that we want them to fix what they did. Fix all the unbelievably sophomoric mistakes they made with (sort of) the Sellplague (which could have been good) and (undeniably so) the absurd 100-year time jump screw-up (which was an execrably bad idea), all to shoehorn the setting into their 'Points of Light' foolishness - a concept that should have remained in Eberron. To say nothing of the goofiness that was the Drowpocalypse (but wait - we can still have player character drow! ) and the incomprehensible way they ran roughshod over the deities list.

Reboot = no possibility. Period. Getting our beloved Realms back = not only possible, but doable without a reboot. There are so many ways this could be done - we just have to give them the ideas, and hope against hope that they want us to give them our money.

- OMH
Go to Top of Page

Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4096 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  12:41:41  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The bottom line is simply this folks:

There is no "re-boot" needed. If you like playing in an earlier era, then do so...the information you want is already there.

That is why there will be no re-boot in the Forgotten Realms...it would be a re-printing of material already gone to print in years past. While I'm sure it would sell some, it would not sell enough.

Instead, WotC is hopefully going to move ahead with a program of sales which will continue moving forward in the timeline, with the things that have already happened, smoothing out rough edges and making small changes here and there that will appeal to the old-school (like myself and others) while also giving us all new lore, setting and gaming which can appeal to a continually growing market of newcomers.

With that information given, and books such as A Grand History of the Realms...perhaps with some maps that can be purchased either as a download (or better off the shelf for me please) that represent different time periods in the Forgotten Realms, they will be able to work with the largest customer base possible.

There is no NEED for a re-boot...that would simply be shooting a hole in the kitchen sink and expecting it to still hold water from that point forward. In business, you can RARELY go back...except with food products for some reason.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  15:14:56  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to agree with Dalor here.

A lot of us would love a reboot, but WE are NOT their current customers. It would be ludicrous of them to bank on us, from a business perspective. They can hope to lure us back, but they shouldn't do it by pissing off the few people still buying their products. They'd be making the same mistake twice.

I heard this morning that boardgames (and D&D should be included in this category for these purposes) are at an all-time low - less then 3% of kids today have any interest in playing them.

Also, girl-gamers (video/comp) are at an all-time high. This is the market they must cross into - make D&D (TRUE RPGing) an online experience. Give us the tools, and D&D may yet survive.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Go to Top of Page

Therise
Master of Realmslore

1272 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  15:45:10  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Out of curiosity, why do some people constantly feel the need to troll this tread?

Constantly coming into this thread to tell pro-reboot people that:
- it's a mistake...blah blah..."
- "it's never gonna happen"
- "you might want X but it'll be horrible/damaging/etc..."
- "it's arrogant/selfish/evil/etc... to want what you want"

Those things are trolling at this point. We've heard you in other threads. Constantly. Allow us to express our opinions and discuss the MERITS of a reboot here. Otherwise, you're just contributing to mutual dislike and fighting.

With respect, get out of our thread. We want a reboot. Is it likely? Perhaps not. But constantly shouting us down is wrong, disrespectful, and adds nothing.


Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families!

Edited by - Therise on 25 Jun 2012 15:59:39
Go to Top of Page

Apex
Learned Scribe

USA
229 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  15:46:12  Show Profile  Visit Apex's Homepage Send Apex a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I have to agree with Dalor here.

A lot of us would love a reboot, but WE are NOT their current customers. It would be ludicrous of them to bank on us, from a business perspective. They can hope to lure us back, but they shouldn't do it by pissing off the few people still buying their products. They'd be making the same mistake twice.

I heard this morning that boardgames (and D&D should be included in this category for these purposes) are at an all-time low - less then 3% of kids today have any interest in playing them.

Also, girl-gamers (video/comp) are at an all-time high. This is the market they must cross into - make D&D (TRUE RPGing) an online experience. Give us the tools, and D&D may yet survive.



Well, it doesn't appear that they have all that many current customers now either. Also, "future" customers are going to buy whatever the "current" version of the Realms is, so what we are dealing with is those dollars that might be lost by current customers who don't make the switch back to the new dollars they might gain from returning gamers. And I for one think that those of us who left have much higher disposable incomes (just based on demographics) than those who they currently have.

And if they would reboot (to whenever, OGB, before OGB, ToT, etc), there is so much material that was never developed due to how rapidly the timeline advanced, especially considering their new short article format (as opposed to the older 32/64 page sourcebooks). They wouldn't have to even invalidate (not initially anyways) anything that happens in the future, since they could slow the timeline down enough to not even need to address those questions for years.
Go to Top of Page

Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2012 :  16:58:26  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Therise

Those things are trolling at this point.
Erm…no.

The OP asked a question, as part of a yes or no poll. To wit:
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

Would you like to see a complete reboot of the Forgotten Realms for 5th edition D&D?


People aren’t trolling, they’re saying why they don’t want a reboot.

If you want to have a discussion about the merits of a reboot, I’d suggest starting another scroll.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 22 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2021 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000