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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Oct 2012 : 19:01:15
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It is very difficult to build emotional ties to places in a campaign world if you and the players know that place will later be destroyed in a cataclysm. It is also very difficult to feel that the heroic deeds of the adventures have value when you know, that no matter what sacrifices you make, will that village you are trying to save be destroyed in a coming cataclysm.
It do mean, at least for persons like me, that I have to cut of the entire 4e and 5e timeline in order for it to feel great to play in the 3e timeline.
The 4e and 5e realms simply did not happen and none of the novels from that time period would exist, in fact I would avoid reading them |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2012 : 22:58:48
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However, I feel it only really affects the published Realms, and NOT the ones we game in (since technically, everyone of us is running a 'parallel world') That means the Spellplague need never happen in our campaigns, just as the ToT never happened in a lot of people's (including Ed's).
The ONLY people who are affected by the canon Realms are the authors - they are STUCK with that continuity, and if fans don't like it, that means we won't want to read their books. It doesn't mean we can't just go on enjoying the Realms as a D&D setting.
The game Realms are a buffet, from which we can pick & choose; the novels are the only thing wearing the shackles of continuity. They hurt themselves, not us. My Realms are whatever I say they are. I don't need the novels - I read them if I like the subject matter. They want to shoot themselves in the foot, so be it. Its not our jobs in jeopardy. People have to realize the truth is no-one is more desperate for 5e FR to succeed then them. If it fails, I still eat next week, and so do most of the rest of us.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 04:32:56
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Not to step on your toes, Markustay, but some of us only read the novels. I've bought some sourcebooks, yes, but they are mainly for references. So continuity is very important to people like myself, who are affected by the novels, as the authors are. And those authors deserve a say, and respect. Of course gamers can choose what to use and what to leave out, but novel readers such as myself are more directly affected by what goes on in the Realms.
I roleplay through writing with friends, and do I take liberties with the Realms. For example, in one such RP Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are alive and well and Shevarash is currently walking the world disguised as an elf named Korryl. But that doesn't mean I'm not affected and don't care about what happens in the novels. I was introduced to the Realms through the novels, not the game. I have high respect for the game, don't get me wrong, but if the novels didn't matter, they probably wouldn't exist in the first place.
And from a marketing standpoint, even if the gamers can still pick and choose, if 5e fails with the novels, WofC will still lose a lot of fans, and thus money. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 09:08:52
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I personally consider the realms, and all D&D settings save maybe Dragonlance, to be game/RP worlds first and novel worlds second. I think the novels help add a lot of depth and color to the world, help expand it, and are a wellspring of inspiration for character behavior within the setting, but I don't feel particularly bound to see any of them as canon within my games.
For instance, I loved Erik's novel, Shadowbane, painted a great picture of Luskan and I've been toying around with setting an rp there in the basic time frame of the novel, but it would completely disregard the ending. And the better part of the middle, for that matter.
Anyway, knowing impending catastrophe is coming doesn't invalidate the accomplishments or adventures of a party set before the Spellplague or before the Time of Troubles, unless it takes place literally the day before. To me, it's one of those things that adds a sense of tragedy to the world. And I'm a big fan of tragedy.
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"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 19:36:27
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| Haha yet another thing we disagree on XD I'm not a big fan of tragedy. I don't expect--or want--the stories to be all all happy and fluffy. There needs to be some conflict, otherwise you wouldn't have much of a story. And fantasy makes for epic conflict. But I like at least semi-happy endings. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 19:52:19
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Well, I enjoy bittersweet endings, myself, with happy endings being something that need to be earned and suffered for.
But, say I were to write a story set in the real world in Haiti a year before that earthquake hit. About a missionary or a charity worker or just a concerned citizen working to build a school for at risk children or some such. An inspiring tale of working to make the world a better place.
Is the merits of that story invalidated because, inevitably, an earthquake is going to hit and reduce the school they worked so hard to build to rubble? Or is it simply a new challenge put in their path to be overcome?
To me, the Spellplague is just another challenge the world must face and overcome, and possibly a gift to be harnessed and utilized(Big supporter of the Order of Blue Fire). It shook up the status quo- took a sledge hammer to it, really- but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Gives people a chance to grow in unexpected ways and develop in new directions.
Suffering builds character. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 23:22:37
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Mmm, point taken. I guess it would depend on the story/tragedy then. I don't think a character with a perfect life would be very interesting. Heck, plenty of my characters have had terrible pasts that they have to try and overcome. Some author once said (and the name escapes me) "put your characters through hell, but give them a happy ending". Or at least semi-happy. With the Haiti example, yes, I'd probably want to read about the founding of the school (Haiti needs them, after all). And if the story continued after the earthquake, I wouldn't expect it to be "woo, happy ending". What I'd expect to see (and this would depend on how far you took the story) would be them in the "recovery stages", with maybe some promises/hopes to rebuild. A lot of books I've read, after the "big thing", if you will, has happened, people are working to rebuild--be it a city or something else. There are exceptions, but I haven't read many books where whatever was destroyed was completely rebuild at the end. It was in the recovery stage, so to speak.
I like trials and tribulations in a story. If no suffering happened, it would be a pretty boring story. And stirring up the emotions of the reader is part of what makes a good author. So I'm not against characters suffering, be they my own or someone else's. I just like my endings to be at least semi-happy.
So ulmitately, it would depend on the story. There was a lot about the Spellplague I didn't like, but I still read the Realms, and I'm reading some pre-Spellplague stuff. So yeah, depends. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 02:46:18
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| IMO diversity is key especially over a product line stretching many years. Every story being a tragedy is just as boring as every story having the hero winning the day. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 00:24:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
At the end of the day, it will be the consensus they must go with, no matter what any of want individually.
I think I've only seen two others with my exact attitude/preference; Jorkens was one, can't remember the other. Basically, what we want, and what we think is best for the game (and FR) are two separate animals. They cannot afford to disenfranchise the fans they have - they tried that and we got 4e (which has lead us straight here).
If not handled delicately, 5e could blow up in their faces all over again.
But if they stayed with the current model I'm sure a change of edition wouldn't bring back those who left. I thought what happened to the Realms was what caused people to leave, not the 4th edition rules. I left FR because the Spellplague was the dumbest thing ever and what happened afterwards.
Pretty much a new edition isn't going to suddenly make people like the change.
I left because of the 4e changes to the Realms, not because of the new editions rules... |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 05:45:43
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quote:
Originally posted by ksu_bond
I left because of the 4e changes to the Realms, not because of the new editions rules...
Enough time has passed that we know what the future holds, at least in some respects. The Sundering is their answer to what has gone before.
What we know:
*There will be a complete geographical reset by Ao back to the Old Grey Box-era configuration. I may have the era slightly wrong, but all the big changes wrought by the Sellplague/time jump are going bye-bye, such as Returned Abeir, Tymanther, and Akanul.
*There will be no reboot - what has come before will not be erased, but the timeline will continue forward.
*Many of the old gods are coming back. With a couple of definite exceptions, one person's guess as to which ones in as good as anyone else's.
Most other details are under wraps. I may have left a few released details out (unintentionally), but what we have learned has made me cautiously optimistic. I am one of the biggest grognards amongst all grognards, but I've set aside the funds for this purchase...if I didn't think I had a good chance of being impressed with the effort, I wouldn't have done that. I'm willing to give it the chance it's asking for.
- OMH |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 15:10:22
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| As I mentioned before, Ed told me -- personally, in an email, and entirely unprompted -- that he was excited about what was coming. That's good enough for me. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 17:04:57
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| I can't wait until 5E drops. Definitely curious as to how things are going to play out. :) |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 17:55:53
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| IDK if this is what it means, but if the question is would I like to see the Forgotten Realms rebooted to say, 1300-1360 DR the answer is a resounding yes. The biggest reason is its an instant restoration of the best rpg setting and richest NPCs ever created. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 18:09:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by ksu_bond
I left because of the 4e changes to the Realms, not because of the new editions rules...
Enough time has passed that we know what the future holds, at least in some respects. The Sundering is their answer to what has gone before.
What we know:
*There will be a complete geographical reset by Ao back to the Old Grey Box-era configuration. I may have the era slightly wrong, but all the big changes wrought by the Sellplague/time jump are going bye-bye, such as Returned Abeir, Tymanther, and Akanul.
*There will be no reboot - what has come before will not be erased, but the timeline will continue forward.
*Many of the old gods are coming back. With a couple of definite exceptions, one person's guess as to which ones in as good as anyone else's.
Most other details are under wraps. I may have left a few released details out (unintentionally), but what we have learned has made me cautiously optimistic. I am one of the biggest grognards amongst all grognards, but I've set aside the funds for this purchase...if I didn't think I had a good chance of being impressed with the effort, I wouldn't have done that. I'm willing to give it the chance it's asking for.
- OMH
I'm very much in favor of restoring the old gray box realms and the geography of the FR atlas.
I'm also a huge fan of the restoration of the gods.
However, I don't think that fixes things enough... the biggest problem that 4th E had was that in an instant the hundreds, if not thousands of rich characters were wiped out. From a writer's perspective this might not be all that bad, but from the perspective of someone who is not great at making game characters feel "real" it was a terrible loss.
I don't know if I'd reset to before the time of troubles as one or two suggested. I think that would be over-reaching. But I'd definitely go back to pre-spell plague. To those few who enjoyed those novels so much that it really bothers you I'd say it should not be too hard to keep what you liked without the spellplague. Or if you really like the spellplague you could simply make it a local phenomenon, not unlike wild magic areas, or maybe wild magic areas gone amok. |
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LordXenophon
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 19:51:51
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It doesn't really matter what they do to their version of the Realms. My players no longer live there. Their timeline diverged at the death of King Azoun IV, which they prevented. They went on to save several other of the major characters, rebuild Castle Dragonspear, kill Hobarth three times and then throw him into the Fountain of Nepenthe while he was trying to resurrect Bha'al, turn the Fountain of Nepenthe into one of the holiest sites of the church of Mystra, and establish a school of wizardry which specializes in Abjuration. One of the player characters (Erystalben Majarra) even became a Magister, then retired from adventuring to serve under Azuth as the god of abjurers.
Why would I want to erase all that, just because somebody who isn't Ed Greenwood wants to completely change the Realms? To me, the Gray Box, post Time of Troubles, is definately the era to be in. Many people posting in this thread seem to agree, or to have other old eras they prefer.
I do understand that somebody at WotC decided that there was too much rampant magic in the Realms, but that's why we choose to play in that world. WotC should respect that and give us the magical world that Greenwood created. If you want a world of mostly fighters and rogues, you can always play one of the other D&D worlds. |
Disintegration is in the eye of the Beholder. |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 22:22:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As I mentioned before, Ed told me -- personally, in an email, and entirely unprompted -- that he was excited about what was coming. That's good enough for me.
This simple fact and the release of Ed's latest work is why I'm back...if the creator of the setting that I love is excited about what's coming then that gives me reason to be as well...I was holding out hope for 4e but looking back on it I should have heeded Ed's reservations regarding the changes...
That being said I have never ceased my personal endeavors into the Realms, unfortunately the 4e Realms has offered little and as a result I have in corporated little from it. That being said I have found a place for the Spellplague, and incorporated it as a variation of the Wild Magic areas that deteriated due to the "attempted" assassination of Mystra...
So let this be my official return to being an active part of the Realms once again, as well as an active member of the Candlekeep community...now I'll just have to see if I can't drag Kuje back :) |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 22:29:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
However, I don't think that fixes things enough... the biggest problem that 4th E had was that in an instant the hundreds, if not thousands of rich characters were wiped out. From a writer's perspective this might not be all that bad, but from the perspective of someone who is not great at making game characters feel "real" it was a terrible loss.
There are very few campaigns that have introduced more than a small percentage of all the known Realms NPCs from the pre-Spellplague era.
This is fortunate, because the easiest thing for a DM not all that skilled in creating NPCs to do is simply use those old NPCs in his or her post-Spellplague game. That and a DM also has the option to simply change an NPC's name, but keep the NPC description.
Borrowing NPCs from earlier eras of the Realms is really no different than borrowing names and character ideas from other game worlds and from sources outside of D&D, save that doing the former keeps a hefty dose of proper flavor.
I do it all the time and my game is the better for it. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 01:11:50
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| Does anybody know what the significance of "Rise of the Underdark" is in relation to the Sundering? I didn't really all the books in that RSE, because some were only in ebook format. The big enemies for 4e are supposed to be Thay, Abolethic Sovereignty, Netherese, and Drow. Thay and the Netherese have made major moves, and the Abolethic Sovereignty has made a bit of noise (though they have been underused, in my opinion). What did the drow accomplish in the Rise of the Underdark? |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 11:38:02
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quote:
Originally posted by LordXenophon
Why would I want to erase all that, just because somebody who isn't Ed Greenwood wants to completely change the Realms? To me, the Gray Box, post Time of Troubles, is definately the era to be in. Many people posting in this thread seem to agree, or to have other old eras they prefer.
I am definitely an 'Old Grey Boxer' (just old and grey, really), and while I can't fault you for your reservations, the simple truth is that there's no going back. A reboot is categorically out of the question, and they're not going to do any other sort of rewind.
Any issues (beloved NPC's are one of mine) that may remain after the release of the latest effort...well, the time to deal with that will be then. For now, we have to put faith in the outlook that Ed himself has for this effort, which seems to strike a positive tone overall.
Let's face it - they're giving us back one aspect of the Realms that a goodly number of us demanded (geographical reset), and in my opinion, in the only manner they realistically can, the one that won't alienate the people who came in during 4th Edition. They've taken steps to not be arbitrary about it and say 'the universe shifted back to the way it was, that's all the explanation needed' - well, no, it isn't, and they know that, and they made it so that there is a good explanation.
I'm sure there will be things I don't like. That's unavoidable, because you can't please all the people all the time. But they're doing their best to listen to us this time around, all of us. I say we wait and see what they offer us before dismissing their effort - even in 4th Edition, they gave us Neverwinter, which I think we can safely say was a superior product. Let's take it on faith that this is a trend that's going to continue.
- OMH |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 12:26:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Let's face it - they're giving us back one aspect of the Realms that a goodly number of us demanded (geographical reset), and in my opinion, in the only manner they realistically can, the one that won't alienate the people who came in during 4th Edition. They've taken steps to not be arbitrary about it and say 'the universe shifted back to the way it was, that's all the explanation needed' - well, no, it isn't, and they know that, and they made it so that there is a good explanation.
And what might that be? Becaus Ao (an ambigious being created to change plot/setting at a whim) said so? Because that's the impression I got when reading some of their ideas about bringing back Mexico and Egypt into the Realms. Count me in the "Like" category of Akanûl, Tymanther, and Returned Abeir. I thought these areas had SO MUCH FRICKIN' POTENTIAL and was pretty much dropped in all but one or two Dungeons/Dragon articles plus the FRCG.
As for the Gods coming back, I'll handle them like I did last time (by ignoring their presence unless specifically called out by a player) *shruggs*. Though I am glad that they aren't doing any of that reset nonsense.
As for the 5E Rule, I'm planning another Playtest Party soon using the most revised version so far. They've made some substantial changes since out last one (which didn't go over too well TBO) and I'm hoping for a bit more optimism this time around. The inclusion of the Barbarian, Monk (and I might bring in the Warlock and Sorcerer even though they're discontinued as of yet) will help provide some additional diversity. I'm still leery about a number of mechanical changes that I don't think are being handled well but that'll go into the playtest feedback part. |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 13:15:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by ksu_bond
I left because of the 4e changes to the Realms, not because of the new editions rules...
Enough time has passed that we know what the future holds, at least in some respects. The Sundering is their answer to what has gone before.
What we know:
*There will be a complete geographical reset by Ao back to the Old Grey Box-era configuration. I may have the era slightly wrong, but all the big changes wrought by the Sellplague/time jump are going bye-bye, such as Returned Abeir, Tymanther, and Akanul.
*There will be no reboot - what has come before will not be erased, but the timeline will continue forward.
*Many of the old gods are coming back. With a couple of definite exceptions, one person's guess as to which ones in as good as anyone else's.
Most other details are under wraps. I may have left a few released details out (unintentionally), but what we have learned has made me cautiously optimistic. I am one of the biggest grognards amongst all grognards, but I've set aside the funds for this purchase...if I didn't think I had a good chance of being impressed with the effort, I wouldn't have done that. I'm willing to give it the chance it's asking for.
- OMH
If I am not mistaken, they are also making the 5E FR source books edition neutral. This means that we can play in whatever era of the Realms that we want and it should be supported by the source books. Thus, it seems to me that the most hated changes such as the time jump will only continue to impact those who read the novels.
In addition to this, they're working on a way to update and re-release all previous edition source books in digital format. This means all the great source books that came out during 2E will be accessible again. |
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LordXenophon
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 18:26:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Because that's the impression I got when reading some of their ideas about bringing back Mexico and Egypt into the Realms.
You mean Maztica and Rauryn? They were already there and didn't need to be added. |
Disintegration is in the eye of the Beholder. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 10:32:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Let's face it - they're giving us back one aspect of the Realms that a goodly number of us demanded (geographical reset), and in my opinion, in the only manner they realistically can, the one that won't alienate the people who came in during 4th Edition. They've taken steps to not be arbitrary about it and say 'the universe shifted back to the way it was, that's all the explanation needed' - well, no, it isn't, and they know that, and they made it so that there is a good explanation.
And what might that be? Becaus Ao (an ambigious being created to change plot/setting at a whim) said so? Because that's the impression I got when reading some of their ideas about bringing back Mexico and Egypt into the Realms. Count me in the "Like" category of Akanûl, Tymanther, and Returned Abeir. I thought these areas had SO MUCH FRICKIN' POTENTIAL and was pretty much dropped in all but one or two Dungeons/Dragon articles plus the FRCG.
As for the Gods coming back, I'll handle them like I did last time (by ignoring their presence unless specifically called out by a player) *shruggs*. Though I am glad that they aren't doing any of that reset nonsense.
As for the 5E Rule, I'm planning another Playtest Party soon using the most revised version so far. They've made some substantial changes since out last one (which didn't go over too well TBO) and I'm hoping for a bit more optimism this time around. The inclusion of the Barbarian, Monk (and I might bring in the Warlock and Sorcerer even though they're discontinued as of yet) will help provide some additional diversity. I'm still leery about a number of mechanical changes that I don't think are being handled well but that'll go into the playtest feedback part.
The 5th Edition rules, I have no idea. I've not seen them, so I'm not qualified to comment on them. And even then, I'll do for them what I did for 4th...judge them on their own merit, rather than on the Realms. 4th Edition rules actually aren't bad. Some things (like 'healing surges') I absolutely despise, while other things (stepping on 3.X's endless multiclassing, for example), I thought was wonderful beyond words. I just ultimnately decided they weren't my cup of tea. It's a pick-and-choose environment, though from what you say, I'm going to have to jerry-rig warlocks and sorcerers back into the game if they aren't included when 5th rolls around.
And I misspoke - I should have said 'they are trying to alienate as few people as possible'. In something like this, someone is going to wind up feeling cheated. Am I willing to say that having Ao geographically reset everything, as if rebooting the Well of Souls, is the lazy man's solution?
Well...yeah, actually, I would. I, too, rather liked Laerakond, (Returned Abeir, take your pick on names), though I am one of those rare neutrals on the issue of Tymanther and Akanul versus Unther and Mulhorand...whichever solution they arrived at would have been fine with me (though I would have liked to keep High Imaskar). There are things a geographical reversion will bring back that I don't much like, Anauroch being the foremost coming to mind - I simply couldn't get into it, especially with the Bedine being so similar to Calims (and later Zakharans). But...eh...I'll live with it.
I truthfully don't see how else they could have done this. Serious statement, not trying to pick a fight. I am genuinely interested to know what else they could have done (as an academic exercise, of course). How else could they have mollified as many people as possible while annoying the fewest amount possible? Edition-bashing is a superfluous exercise these days (until 5th comes out, I'm sure there'll be plenty to say here in the Keep), so that affords us the luxury of speculation: What should they have done?
- OMH |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 12 Mar 2013 10:37:50 |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 22:21:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
I truthfully don't see how else they could have done this. Serious statement, not trying to pick a fight. I am genuinely interested to know what else they could have done (as an academic exercise, of course). How else could they have mollified as many people as possible while annoying the fewest amount possible? Edition-bashing is a superfluous exercise these days (until 5th comes out, I'm sure there'll be plenty to say here in the Keep), so that affords us the luxury of speculation: What should they have done?
- OMH
The reason for the map reversion/reboot is likely because if you are going to an "edition neutral" type of setting for information, then everyone needs to have the same base map for it to work. Hence the return to the earlier map, so as to allow all the old gamers back in without doing a ton of damage to the newer entrants, since there has been little published for the "new" regions.
I am still somewhat agnostic towards 5th, as rule wise I know I will stick with 1st/2nd, and I don't see what I am going to gain information wise that will help my 1340s DR campaign. But at least there is now a shimmer of hope for me that with the old maps they might actually put something out i can use. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2013 : 03:42:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Let's face it - they're giving us back one aspect of the Realms that a goodly number of us demanded (geographical reset), and in my opinion, in the only manner they realistically can, the one that won't alienate the people who came in during 4th Edition. They've taken steps to not be arbitrary about it and say 'the universe shifted back to the way it was, that's all the explanation needed' - well, no, it isn't, and they know that, and they made it so that there is a good explanation.
And what might that be? Becaus Ao (an ambigious being created to change plot/setting at a whim) said so? Because that's the impression I got when reading some of their ideas about bringing back Mexico and Egypt into the Realms. Count me in the "Like" category of Akanûl, Tymanther, and Returned Abeir. I thought these areas had SO MUCH FRICKIN' POTENTIAL and was pretty much dropped in all but one or two Dungeons/Dragon articles plus the FRCG.
As for the Gods coming back, I'll handle them like I did last time (by ignoring their presence unless specifically called out by a player) *shruggs*. Though I am glad that they aren't doing any of that reset nonsense.
As for the 5E Rule, I'm planning another Playtest Party soon using the most revised version so far. They've made some substantial changes since out last one (which didn't go over too well TBO) and I'm hoping for a bit more optimism this time around. The inclusion of the Barbarian, Monk (and I might bring in the Warlock and Sorcerer even though they're discontinued as of yet) will help provide some additional diversity. I'm still leery about a number of mechanical changes that I don't think are being handled well but that'll go into the playtest feedback part.
The 5th Edition rules, I have no idea. I've not seen them, so I'm not qualified to comment on them. And even then, I'll do for them what I did for 4th...judge them on their own merit, rather than on the Realms. 4th Edition rules actually aren't bad. Some things (like 'healing surges') I absolutely despise, while other things (stepping on 3.X's endless multiclassing, for example), I thought was wonderful beyond words. I just ultimnately decided they weren't my cup of tea. It's a pick-and-choose environment, though from what you say, I'm going to have to jerry-rig warlocks and sorcerers back into the game if they aren't included when 5th rolls around.
And I misspoke - I should have said 'they are trying to alienate as few people as possible'. In something like this, someone is going to wind up feeling cheated. Am I willing to say that having Ao geographically reset everything, as if rebooting the Well of Souls, is the lazy man's solution?
Well...yeah, actually, I would. I, too, rather liked Laerakond, (Returned Abeir, take your pick on names), though I am one of those rare neutrals on the issue of Tymanther and Akanul versus Unther and Mulhorand...whichever solution they arrived at would have been fine with me (though I would have liked to keep High Imaskar). There are things a geographical reversion will bring back that I don't much like, Anauroch being the foremost coming to mind - I simply couldn't get into it, especially with the Bedine being so similar to Calims (and later Zakharans). But...eh...I'll live with it.
I truthfully don't see how else they could have done this. Serious statement, not trying to pick a fight. I am genuinely interested to know what else they could have done (as an academic exercise, of course). How else could they have mollified as many people as possible while annoying the fewest amount possible? Edition-bashing is a superfluous exercise these days (until 5th comes out, I'm sure there'll be plenty to say here in the Keep), so that affords us the luxury of speculation: What should they have done?
- OMH
I think your correct in that they're not going to please everyone and I'm not blind to the presumption that a good majority of Realms fans enjoy a pre-Spellplague setting. That being said, they could've given us an extreamly detailed source book that featured many intriciate details of Akanûl, Tymanther, and Laerakond in a similiar fashion they did with Neverwinter and the Menzoberranzan supplements. Having those, I wouldn't need to create anything new for these regions and it would've allowed me to maintain their presence in an extreamly detailed fashion after the Sundering.
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2013 : 12:43:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think your correct in that they're not going to please everyone and I'm not blind to the presumption that a good majority of Realms fans enjoy a pre-Spellplague setting. That being said, they could've given us an extreamly detailed source book that featured many intriciate details of Akanûl, Tymanther, and Laerakond in a similiar fashion they did with Neverwinter and the Menzoberranzan supplements. Having those, I wouldn't need to create anything new for these regions and it would've allowed me to maintain their presence in an extreamly detailed fashion after the Sundering.
I think that ultimately, it all boils down to money. I'm guessing they believe that the 4th Edition Realms have turned as much profit as they can reasonably expect, and now they're going to see how many of us will buy into the 'Sundered Realms' (for lack of a more accurate yet abbreviated description).
And I think Apex has the right of it - the geographical reset was yet another way for them to more easily (in other words, 'for less money') support all editions, and working from the same base map allows them to do that. I'm just really hoping we get the entirety of Toril this time around, at least a page or two devoted to a good world map. Just outlines and continent names would be fine, but they really need to consider doing that.
What I'm curious to find out about is how they handle the temporal and sociopolitical aspects. Does this 'reset' mean Szass Tam get another shot, now that his ruined homeland has 'rebooted'? Does Halruaa actually get its people back? Do the restored cities of Lantan have any...Lantanese? And of course, we have the iconic Realms personalities...not all of them had a decent exit story like Khelben did. I'll be interested to see if any of the ones who didn't get a fair shake this last time around show up.
I agree we should have had more source material - at the very least, I hope they'd do a sourcebook for Abeir, with all the Toril-born influences (and vice versa) that carried over (such as elves). At least then we'd be able to see the results of what happens after that world's geography reset. Apart from where it landed, Laerakond was one of the best things about the 4th Edition FRCG.
And deities...we can hope against hope they get that right.
- OMH |
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KacyCrawford
Acolyte
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 16:28:16
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| Yes,I would like to see it. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2013 : 16:38:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think your correct in that they're not going to please everyone and I'm not blind to the presumption that a good majority of Realms fans enjoy a pre-Spellplague setting. That being said, they could've given us an extreamly detailed source book that featured many intriciate details of Akanûl, Tymanther, and Laerakond in a similiar fashion they did with Neverwinter and the Menzoberranzan supplements. Having those, I wouldn't need to create anything new for these regions and it would've allowed me to maintain their presence in an extreamly detailed fashion after the Sundering.
I think that ultimately, it all boils down to money. I'm guessing they believe that the 4th Edition Realms have turned as much profit as they can reasonably expect, and now they're going to see how many of us will buy into the 'Sundered Realms' (for lack of a more accurate yet abbreviated description).
And I think Apex has the right of it - the geographical reset was yet another way for them to more easily (in other words, 'for less money') support all editions, and working from the same base map allows them to do that. I'm just really hoping we get the entirety of Toril this time around, at least a page or two devoted to a good world map. Just outlines and continent names would be fine, but they really need to consider doing that.
What I'm curious to find out about is how they handle the temporal and sociopolitical aspects. Does this 'reset' mean Szass Tam get another shot, now that his ruined homeland has 'rebooted'? Does Halruaa actually get its people back? Do the restored cities of Lantan have any...Lantanese? And of course, we have the iconic Realms personalities...not all of them had a decent exit story like Khelben did. I'll be interested to see if any of the ones who didn't get a fair shake this last time around show up.
I agree we should have had more source material - at the very least, I hope they'd do a sourcebook for Abeir, with all the Toril-born influences (and vice versa) that carried over (such as elves). At least then we'd be able to see the results of what happens after that world's geography reset. Apart from where it landed, Laerakond was one of the best things about the 4th Edition FRCG.
And deities...we can hope against hope they get that right.
- OMH
You brought up Halruua, my sorespot with the spellplague......I am deeply interested in it's restoration and how it is handled. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Alruane
Senior Scribe
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 19:51:55
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| I'm just going to go with No. |
" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus
"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answers."
~Alruane |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 20:55:07
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| My heart says yes but my brain says no. I voted no because the setting can't afford to lose any more fans...and it WOULD lose more fans. Now, if they were to start printing material for all eras of play, so that players could decide which era to play in AND have new material to use, THAT'D BE GREAT. It's not going to happen, but it would be great. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Reboot of the Realms for 5th edition.
