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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 21:33:50
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ICv2 has an article drawing upon quarterly sales information from the hobby games distributors (Alliance Game Distributors, Diamond Comic Distributors, ACD Distribution, GTS Distribution, AAA Anime, Bookazine, and others).
Main article is here: http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/21399.html
RPG specific listings here: http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/21403.html
For Summer 2011, in the RPG area, Paizo's Pathfinder holds the number one selling spot, while WotC's 4E is in at number two.
The article mentions Pathfinder's expanding releases compared to D&D 4E. Some retailers have the impression 4E draws in newer players and more casual gamers while Pathfinder finds support among more established gamers.
In related news, WotC's Wrath of Ashardalon made a strong showing in the board game arena. The board game market is growing, in spite of the overall state of the economy. (Probably because board games offer an unbeatable entertainment hours to cost ratio.)
Also, Wizard's Magic the Gathering continues to be the top selling collectable card game (and hobby game in general), with growing sales of the latest expansion Innistrad.
Distributors likely have high expectations for the coming holiday season.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 23:17:14
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Until PF:tBG comes out. (Pathfinder: the Better Gathering) 
'Casual gamer' = kid who tries to play it once with his friends and then throws it on the bottom of his closet.
I'm not sure how to feel about this news. Competition is good, and D&D never really had it on this kinda level, but if PF annihilates D&D then what happens to FR? 
I'd rather see them level-out - that would be the best situation for the consumer. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 08:30:30
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that doesn't measure how much WotC gets from DDI, their main source of income?
Paizo now has a book with simplified rules, maybe that will attract more casuals |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 09:48:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
that doesn't measure how much WotC gets from DDI, their main source of income?
The DDI is their main source of income? Where does that info come from? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 13:29:17
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I knew someone was going to create a thread for this topic. I guess we can all look forward to these quarterly reports threads from now until Doomsday.
And because I find it amusing:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14278&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=Pathfinder%2Csales
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 14:23:30
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| Perhaps the competition will make WoTC realize that they shouldn't change the rules every year ;) |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 15:58:36
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It's seems like this sort of thread pops up every 3-4 months on the Paizo boards when PF does really well. What I find misleading is the "for summer 2011" which means two quarters Pathfinder had outsold D&D in those game distributors (no small feat) but if one looks at what was released in those months for D&D, I'm not suprised. There wasn't much in the way of great products put forth on their end.
DDI probably isn't "The" main source of income for WotC but I'm sure it's a pretty good area of revenue which isn't factored into the ICv2 reports (and neither is Paizo PDF sales from their site). And while I'm sure people at WotC and Hasbro aren't happy to fall below Paizo for 2 straight quarters, I think people are reading too much into the information IMO and really shouldn't start worrying about D&D's future until Paizo does like 2 years straight at the top of the RPG community instead of 6 months. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 16:12:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
that doesn't measure how much WotC gets from DDI, their main source of income?
The DDI is their main source of income? Where does that info come from?
pure speculation, but look how many books did wotc release this year
Heroes of Shadow, Shadowfell, Neverwinter, magic item and monster compendium |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 16:18:28
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If the DDi is their main source of income, then I think they truly are in trouble.
I don't believe it is... at least I hope not.
Did they ever finish the gaming table? If so, is it generic (so you can play any RPG on it), or did they stupidly make it propriety? (you know, what drove Radio Shack out of the computer business, and almost tanked Apple in the early 90's). In this day and age, 'one size fits all' is the way to go with Internet content. You'll note the busiest sites are the most generic ones (so as to appeal to the greatest number of people). When you are hemorrhaging customers, you don't build a site that appeals only to them - its just bad business. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Nov 2011 16:20:52 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 18:28:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
It's seems like this sort of thread pops up every 3-4 months on the Paizo boards when PF does really well. What I find misleading is the "for summer 2011" which means two quarters Pathfinder had outsold D&D in those game distributors (no small feat) but if one looks at what was released in those months for D&D, I'm not suprised. There wasn't much in the way of great products put forth on their end.
DDI probably isn't "The" main source of income for WotC but I'm sure it's a pretty good area of revenue which isn't factored into the ICv2 reports (and neither is Paizo PDF sales from their site). And while I'm sure people at WotC and Hasbro aren't happy to fall below Paizo for 2 straight quarters, I think people are reading too much into the information IMO and really shouldn't start worrying about D&D's future until Paizo does like 2 years straight at the top of the RPG community instead of 6 months.
I think it's also worth pointing out that when Paizo did the first run of their core rulebook, it was sold out before its debut at GenCon. That, to me, says a huge amount about Paizo's place in the gaming market. A new spin on an old ruleset wound up being a smash hit. I would have loved to have seen the WotC execs when they heard that news! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 18:47:59
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It will be interesting to see how Paizo's Pathfinder Beginner Box compares with the D&D-branded board games this X-Mas season. I've read mostly-positive reviews on both.  |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 21:23:46
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Just sharing the information as reported on that site. I actually tried to find the older thread, but couldn't see it. If the mods want, feel free to merge this with the main thread on this topic.
I don't have it out for any system, even though I ended up supporting Pathfinder. That was due to Wizard's handling of the Realms more than the game system they decided to create.
My opinion based on this news, Wizards is doing great. D&D might not be performing at the first position (and second isn't bad) but their Magic game not only remains at the top, but is growing. Their D&D-based board game is also making good headway into that market and they have more on the way just in time for the holiday season.
Its not a perfectly solid prediction, but I think the future of D&D under Wizards lies in board games. The margin may not be larger, but the market likely is bigger and wider. Board games is also a growing market where as the pen-and-paper RPG market seems more static.
It's been mentioned before, but we may eventually see a board game style D&D as the eternal rules edition like Monopoly or Risk. These games are given an art repackaging or some optional rules tweaks every few years, but the core remains the same.
The expansions for the board games will be compatible and the board/maps and monster tokens can be repurposed for individual games. Game support not released in a new box would be moved to DDI, for those who want to really get the most out of their sets.
Board games not only hold less stigma in the common cultural consciousness, they are more sellable. Board games can still make their way to hobby stores, but are in a much more prominent position in toy stores and big box superstores than books. A boxed D&D board game is more gift ready than giving a kid the Players Handbook, which is basically a hardcover textbook. Board games are inherently more miniature ready, another area for expansion (deluxe editions, etc). |
Edited by - Dark Wizard on 03 Nov 2011 21:28:50 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 21:48:41
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The biggest point of interest to me, about these sales figures, is the fact that until 4E was released, the makers of D&D didn't have any real competition in the RPG industry. Even Gary Gygax, after his ouster from TSR, made at least one other game system that failed to show up on TSR's radar. And then TSR's successors go to a new edition that's unpopular enough for a revamped prior edition to outsell it -- that's a very interesting development.
In a way, WotC is competing against themselves, and losing. They went from being so far ahead that all other RPG makers combined couldn't match their market clout, to being 2nd place to someone else. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 03:51:09
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Using a system they created.
OGL turned out to be everything the 3e designers hoped it would be... and most of those guys are still developing for it. 
Like Dr. Frankenstein, apparently WotC created a monster, and like the good doctor, its coming back to bite them in the arse.
You could look at it this way - its stupid to hate WotC for creating 4e and retiring 3e - they created both of them. All Paizo did was 'pimp it out'.
The setting is a whole 'nother story... the PF setting is everything FR should have been. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Nov 2011 03:53:24 |
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Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 16:06:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
that doesn't measure how much WotC gets from DDI, their main source of income?
The DDI is their main source of income? Where does that info come from?
Not to say that it is, but all DDi subscribers who also have an account on their forums get entered into a group there so they get occasional email communications about developments. That group has 60,000+ members, which means 60,000 people paying a minimum of $7 each month. That's a lot of money and people, by RPG industry standards.
More intersting to me, incidentally, are the other games getting onto the top 5. The WH40K games are consistently in 3rd, and Dragon Age has now made two lists in a row - on one of those with no new product coming out. And Shadowrun is regularly present. |
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay. |
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RPG and Hobby Games Distributor Quarterly
