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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Aug 2011 : 18:47:54
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I've tried to write books and stories and, although I almost finished one; dumped it when it was 300 pages long because I felt disappointed after reading it; I always end up abandoning them because I find myself writing characters and events that, somehow, remind a lot of things I've read in other books; specially Realms-related. As there are many writers in here, one time and profesional ones, I'd like to know if this happens to you too, when after reading what you have done you recognize that situations as similar to others you've read about, and if that discourages you from writing. I want to write and I've tried to but I always end up frustrated for that matter.
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"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Thelonius on 31 Aug 2011 18:49:09
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2011 : 19:39:11
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| We are our worst critics. I would suggest that you have someone else read your work before "dumping" it. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2011 : 19:40:22
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| I'd not dump all that work... Get someone you trust to read and critique it -- sometimes even a chance comment can give you the idea you need to turn your story into something great. I fiddled with this one NPC's background off and on for years. I mentioned it to a friend, and he said "don't explain this part," referring to the part that was stumping me. This didn't work for me, but it gave me the idea I needed for how to make it work. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2011 : 23:37:32
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Revise it for as many times as you think necessary till you are satisfied with the result. Never dump any work, especially a long one you've spent a considerable time writing. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 01:25:17
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I totally feel your pain on this. I get so frustrated with my work sometimes I get the urge to DELETE. I've found that leaving it be for a while sometimes also reduces the frustration. walk away from it for even a whole month. Then, when it's convenient...reread what you've written and maybe you'll see a whole new angle that you didn't before.
I like to write again almost immediately after something has inspired me. A beautiful setting, a great read, or a life event of my own typically does this for me. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 01:34:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd not dump all that work... Get someone you trust to read and critique it -- sometimes even a chance comment can give you the idea you need to turn your story into something great.
Indeed. And I agree.
I've noticed that even my own most frustrated writings have little gems that can often be used as a basis for something else entirely. I rarely discard any of my writings, as I'm confident that even some of the bad stuff can be reworked or reapplied... eventually. It's just simply a matter of finding the right place and context for it. |
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Edited by - The Sage on 01 Sep 2011 01:36:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 03:46:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd not dump all that work... Get someone you trust to read and critique it -- sometimes even a chance comment can give you the idea you need to turn your story into something great.
Indeed. And I agree.
I've noticed that even my own most frustrated writings have little gems that can often be used as a basis for something else entirely. I rarely discard any of my writings, as I'm confident that even some of the bad stuff can be reworked or reapplied... eventually. It's just simply a matter of finding the right place and context for it.
Of course, "eventually" for the Sage has a somewhat different meaning than it does for the rest of us... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 13:43:57
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| And what about the fact that, somehow the situations always remind me of others I've read? I swear I do it unintentionally. And as long as noone of the people surrounding me have the same interestst they don't get it. Once I wrote a wizard that ended up being similar to Edwin, and the prologue of my last book is a very similar, yet unintended, replay of a KOTOR II moment, when Kreia talks to the almost dead HanHarr; with the same starting sentence "-Awaken... beast". |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Thelonius on 01 Sep 2011 13:44:35 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 14:26:08
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I suggest you let at least three persons read and critique it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 14:52:21
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| Keep in mind that there really isn't much that hasn't already been written. You just need to put your own flavor on what you do write... |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 16:35:52
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quote:
Originally posted by GRYPHON
Keep in mind that there really isn't much that hasn't already been written. You just need to put your own flavor on what you do write...
GRYPHON is right. University thaught me that almost every idea has been used before. It's okay as long as you give it your own spin to it. We see it all the time in games, movies, comics, ect. There's a dutch saying but it's hard for me to translate but comes down to this: it's better to "steal" a good idea than to make a bad one up yourself.
And I think there are several scribes here at the keep who have similar interests and might be willing to review your work. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 19:04:49
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I never knew Tyranthraxus was Dutch. Perhaps the "unknown lower plane" connected through the fabled Pool of Radiance is in fact a dark and dismal place full of windmills and evil tulips.
I find myself disagreeing with that GRYPHON says, even though it is true to some extent. Yes, in the broadest sense mankind has already invented and narrated every possible story which could be told, and yes, we take comfort from immersing ourselves in the familiar. Yet we still crave to hear "new" tales which engage our imaginations with new ideas and new contexts, we still sit and wait and watch and listen in the hopes of being entertained by things we wouldn't think of ourselves.
The Realms setting is a perfect example; it's based on ideas taken from authors who came before yet it continuously builds a world that explores ideas authors haven't yet conceived. It seems to me that dismissing all fiction with "been there, done that" is a grievous error which denies an essential part of our need to create and appreciate new things.
The first book is never perfect, it is often never even finished. But it is a necessary part of improving the second book. Ideally you can establish great fame through publishing numerous books then eventually release your "rough" first book as a pulper to appease hordes of admiring fans who'll gobble up every scrap of nonsense which bears your signature.
The process is similar for engineering. My first prototypes never work, in fact they sometimes fail in rather spectacular and dismal ways regardless of how much methodical analysis is put into the design, yet without them the first successful prototypes will never be built. A difference in our craft is that I only hear from hordes of people when what I create is flawed and unworkable; you will hear from the people when what you create is perfect. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Sep 2011 20:02:07 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 20:30:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The process is similar for engineering. My first prototypes never work, in fact they sometimes fail in rather spectacular and dismal ways regardless of how much methodical analysis is put into the design, yet without them the first successful prototypes will never be built. A difference in our craft is that I only hear from hordes of people when what I create is flawed and unworkable; you will hear from the people when what you create is perfect.
Are you a tinker gnome? |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 01:21:56
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| Thelonius, don't feel alone in that. There are scenes in a couple of my current story projects (one of which is now up to the 220+ mark) that remind me of scenes from other stories- but only superficially. The point is that it is YOUR story, no matter how similar some of it might appear to things you've read. Those other stories might have influenced you in some way, but that is a good thing. If they didn't, you probably would not have come up with the ideas for yours in the first place. Just make it your own, put your own spin/twist/whatever on the ideas, and let it go where it will. That is how great stories are made! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 01:51:09
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quote:
Wooly Rupert
Are you a tinker gnome?
Nope, more of a dwarf with elven aesthetic. My failures don't inadvertently blow up or leash demonic engines upon the world (although they do sometimes destroy/derate/compromise a handful of costly or irreplaceable components), they mostly translate into wasted time, effort, resources, and money. My successes are measured by their efficiency, performance, reliability, and final cost per unit. My failures do not meet optimum parameters and are quickly criticized/discarded by the higher powers I serve. Then the cycle continues with the assertion that my successes become the platforms that set the parameters which need to be improved in the next device.
A technological marvel (or monstrosity) which moves a person slower than walking speed while consuming great amounts of fuel (and eventually blowing up) is not considered efficient by any sensible criteria.
As much engineering goes into the product as into the process which makes the product.
The pinnacle of engineering is when something is "elegant", that is, it is the simplest (and cheapest) it can possibly be without losing function, the machine is greater than the sum of its parts, each and every piece is critically purposeful, none of the existing complexity can be removed without diminishing the end result ... plus it just intuitively "looks right" to the trained eye.
The optimist sees a glass that's half full, a pessimist sees a glass that's half empty. An engineer sees a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
Sorry if I'm inclined towards expressing all problems by reducing them into engineering analogies, it's just how I'm trained to think. I even perceive art and writing as engineering efforts.
Another day of toil for the undying overlord. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Sep 2011 02:08:08 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 02:19:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Sorry if I'm inclined towards expressing all problems by reducing them into engineering analogies, it's just how I'm trained to think. I even perceive art and writing as engineering efforts.
No apology is necessary.
As a programmer, I often find organising problems as though I'm tackling a new piece of code works more effectively [and produces a more coherent end result] than attempting to confront the problems head-on. I'm always tinkering with options and perspectives -- making them floating points [to play up alternating values/variables], or just dropping "if-then-else" statements here and there.
It's probably why my famed "To-Do List" is stuck in an endless and repetitive loop. The majority of my list is made up of "if-then-else." So much so, that I rarely return to the earlier option.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 02:48:41
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| Attempting to finish a conditionally recursive to-do list (especially while an endless supply of new items are pushed onto the stack) seems like an impossibly Herculean task to me. An engineer would organize, prioritize, then ruthlessly apply tradeoffs; simplify by breaking complex structures apart, evaluate results based on processing requirements for each piece. Perfection is eternal but it also logically takes an eternity to achieve; real-world constraints force temporal considerations into the final formula for success. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Sep 2011 02:53:07 |
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Frustrating writing
