| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 02:58:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by HelldoG
BTW. Are the Moonblades (or at least one of them) stated somewhere? And if not, what mechanics and what kind of powers could they follow/have? Something like Legacy Weapons?
All that debating about the Blades made my curious. :P
Well 2nd Edition stated them as starting with +1 to +4 with at least one special ability. As the current, enabled wielder, passed on (with some debate as to if they went to Arvandor or their spirit entered the blade) adding power to the blade.
That is not two Moonblades will be the same, some gained a plus per transition, some gained another special ability.
The special abilities range from charm person, to fly, to sharpness, dancing, flying, and heal with about 20 more various spell effects. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
 |
|
|
Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 03:07:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by HelldoG
BTW. Are the Moonblades (or at least one of them) stated somewhere? And if not, what mechanics and what kind of powers could they follow/have? Something like Legacy Weapons?
All that debating about the Blades made my curious. :P
You can find the 3e interpretation in Magic of Faerūn.
Page 170 |
Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd. |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 03:54:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ionik Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
The fact that so few blade are left active, is really what would make it harder at this point- not that the gold elves aren't worthy by blood.
There were not a great many of them made to begin with, but any that were not out and out destroyed can still be claimed even if they were never claimed or their family died out. As per Magic of Faerun the only requirements (game mechanics wise) for a claimant to be excepted are: elf or half-elf, matching good (usually neutral-good) alignment, the ceremony must meet certain requirements (suggestions are in a royal throne room or place sacred to an elven deity),and DM's discretion.
It does also say that claimants who have cowardly or selfish acts must have atoned for those actions in some way.
This is precisely the point I was trying to make. Thanks, IK. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 04:04:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by HelldoG
BTW. Are the Moonblades (or at least one of them) stated somewhere? And if not, what mechanics and what kind of powers could they follow/have? Something like Legacy Weapons?
All that debating about the Blades made my curious. :P
Well 2nd Edition stated them as starting with +1 to +4 with at least one special ability. As the current, enabled wielder, passed on (with some debate as to if they went to Arvandor or their spirit entered the blade) adding power to the blade.
That is not two Moonblades will be the same, some gained a plus per transition, some gained another special ability.
The special abilities range from charm person, to fly, to sharpness, dancing, flying, and heal with about 20 more various spell effects.
Yes. And they're located in Elves of Evermeet if you need to find them. It's a wonderful, timeless sourcebook, really.  |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 17:33:21
|
So I think strictly-canonically, going by precedent established in Elaine's books about Moonblades, only characters with moon elf heritage can wield moonblades. Pureblood sun elves, wood elves, drow, etc., are SOL.
That doesn't mean, however, that your PCs who lack moon elf descent can't use something similar.
There is plenty of room in the canon for a corrupted moonblade (one whose powers function a little or a lot differently and open themselves to various users of elf heritage) or a previously undiscovered version of the weapon called a "sunblade" that attunes itself with sun elves (not to be confused with the human sunblade, which might actually be a derivative of one particular form of elven sunblade).
Also, feyri (due to their demonic ancestry) might produce new and dark effects by trying to claim a moonblade (this might be what corrupts it in the first place).
Also, as noted above, your elves can be of mixed heritage (possibly without knowing it). Fey'ri are not necessarily *all* sun elf/demon--there might be a little moon elf that got tangled into the mix there, possibly a wayward/abducted heir of a mighty moon elf bloodline.
Lots of options--do what's cool for your game, and don't worry about explaining it too much unless it benefits the story!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 04:57:43
|
New Canon trumps.
While I understand Elaine not being happy, her novels were trumped.
|
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 06:40:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
New Canon trumps.
While I understand Elaine not being happy, her novels were trumped.
What exactly is the "new canon" position here? Could someone fill me in, please? |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
|
|
|
Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 07:05:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
New Canon trumps.
While I understand Elaine not being happy, her novels were trumped.
What exactly is the "new canon" position here? Could someone fill me in, please?
Unfortunately I haven't read the pertinent novels yet, but the difference of opinion seems to be implied intent of the author vs printed game mechanics.
As far as I know, the most recent in-print game mechanics are in Magic of Faerun pg 170-171. It says an elf or half-elf (of the same family if the blade is active) of the same alignment as that particular Moonblade may attempt to claim it. Other than it pretty much leaves it to DM discretion.
|
Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd. |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 14:58:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
New Canon trumps.
While I understand Elaine not being happy, her novels were trumped.
What exactly is the "new canon" position here? Could someone fill me in, please?
I guess I'm not entirely clear on this dilemma. It has to do with Rich Baker's story in Realms of the Elves, which near as I can tell, features a sun elf heir to a noble house searching for the moonblade of his mother's cousin's house (Morvaeril), in the hopes of claiming it for himself, and it ends up in the hands of a half-elf (and is it clearly specified where her heritage comes from?).
What I'm not sure of is whether there's moon elf blood in these houses--are we certain Morvaeril is *definitely* a sun elf house?
Also, we should bear in mind that in a world where people can sling fireballs by making funny finger gestures at other people, exceptions are more a rule than an exception. The way mortals understand magic to work is not necessarily the way magic works: they may see much of the picture, or their understanding might just encompass the tip of the iceberg.
Cheers
|
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 16:34:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
New Canon trumps.
While I understand Elaine not being happy, her novels were trumped.
What exactly is the "new canon" position here? Could someone fill me in, please?
I guess I'm not entirely clear on this dilemma. It has to do with Rich Baker's story in Realms of the Elves, which near as I can tell, features a sun elf heir to a noble house searching for the moonblade of his mother's cousin's house (Morvaeril), in the hopes of claiming it for himself, and it ends up in the hands of a half-elf (and is it clearly specified where her heritage comes from?).
What I'm not sure of is whether there's moon elf blood in these houses--are we certain Morvaeril is *definitely* a sun elf house?
Also, we should bear in mind that in a world where people can sling fireballs by making funny finger gestures at other people, exceptions are more a rule than an exception. The way mortals understand magic to work is not necessarily the way magic works: they may see much of the picture, or their understanding might just encompass the tip of the iceberg.
Cheers
Ah, I see. I appreciate your telling me about this, and I actually read that particular story a long while back. I'll not say more on it than that. You're right about it being more of a rule than an exception, and I feel that's the perfect way to put it, really. 
By the way, were moonblades specifically Mrs. Cunningham's idea, or was the idea given to her from TSR? Sort of a, "We have this idea for an elven item called a moonblade, and would like you to write about it for us in your next book," or was it her idea from start to finish? |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
|
|
|
Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 17:54:10
|
I still haven't read the books pertinent to Moonblades, but I have finished scanning the scroll http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/lore_ec.htm for Moonblade content.
Getting back to the original topic of this thread I feel more justified than ever in saying that even a "good" and truly "noble" fey'ri could never wield a Moonblade. |
Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd. |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 19:56:03
|
| That would really be a shame. I'd like to see it happen, actually- assuming there's a good reason, of course. I had an item similar to a Moonblade in one of my campaigns, that was a family heirloom sword that had special powers for the elf of that family who used it, and was even more powerful when using the accompanying mask (it was an Oriental elven clan in a kingdom I created based on feudal Japanese culture, and the items together allowed one to summon the clan's spirit guardian.) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 00:24:56
|
So far as I know, Elaine created moonblades.
While I wouldn't hand a fey'ri a moonblade, I wouldn't have an issue with creating some other type of elf-specific blade and letting a fey'ri have it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 00:59:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So far as I know, Elaine created moonblades.
While I wouldn't hand a fey'ri a moonblade, I wouldn't have an issue with creating some other type of elf-specific blade and letting a fey'ri have it.
The Elfblades of Cormanthyr (LEoF, pg 157-159) might work well in this regard. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
|
|
Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 01:41:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So far as I know, Elaine created moonblades.
Wooly has the right of it. Moonblades were created in the novel Elfshadow.
Ok, thank you! I really enjoyed and enjoy reading over those novels. Must have read them a good ten or twelve times in the last few years. She tells an amazing story! |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
|
|
|
Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 02:11:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Uh, Those are all very unique blades, and one has to meet several requirements to wield any of them. I seem to recall that at least two of them are reserved for the leaders of the army of Cormanthyr. And one is the "Ruler's Blade" of the Coronal! I doubt a fey'ri would ever be allowed that one. Some of the others, perhaps, but only after some VERY distinguished service....
The Srinshee(sp?) has the Ruler's Blade in Avrandor. The others are all still lost I believe. The Elfblades are nearly as picky as Moonblades, if you're not the right race(they are not all wielded by elves) and the right alignment, and have the right class/skills/abilities, or they just plain don't like you....you are in for a world of hurt. |
Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd. |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 18:41:24
|
| Actually, only one ofthem- the Ruler's Blade- actually kills if not wielded by the right kind of person. The Art Blade casues you to loose ability to use magic, and I forget what the Soldier's Blade does. The others were made for dwarf, halfling, and human owners, I believe. There were five (or was it six?) in all. The soldier's Blade was eventually found by Josidiah Starym after he went into the Underdark through the Twisted Tower to find the Art Blade. (I REALLY want to do the CC write-up on how he got it back and lost Guenhwyvar in the process!) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 21:43:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Actually, only one ofthem- the Ruler's Blade- actually kills if not wielded by the right kind of person. The Art Blade casues you to loose ability to use magic, and I forget what the Soldier's Blade does. The others were made for dwarf, halfling, and human owners, I believe. There were five (or was it six?) in all. The soldier's Blade was eventually found by Josidiah Starym after he went into the Underdark through the Twisted Tower to find the Art Blade. (I REALLY want to do the CC write-up on how he got it back and lost Guenhwyvar in the process!)
Actually, you have that backwards. Josidiah Starym went to retrieve the Warblade, but he came back in 674 DR wielding the fabled Artblade.
Here's the history on Josidiah. |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
Edited by - Penknight on 08 Sep 2010 21:45:53 |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
|
|
Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2010 : 01:06:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Oops! you're right, good sir! I got them mixed up for some reason. Call it a blonde elf moment!!  
- Oh, not a problem at all! I've done the same thing myself a few times. |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Fey'ri count as elves, right?
