Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Realmslore
 Chamber of Sages
 Questions for Elaine Cunningham [II]
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author  Topic Next Topic
Page: of 37

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2395 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2011 :  11:47:22  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The NEWS OF THE WORLD scandal reminded me of JACK & JILL, a flash fiction murder mystery I wrote a while back. It's up now on my website. Stop by to celebrate Free Fiction Friday. Stay awhile. Have a pint. ::passes the peanuts::

www.elainecunningham.com

My website's home page is a WordPress blog, so clicking the link will take you to the latest post. No worries--if you want the story, click on the Catagories button at the right and select Free Online Fiction.
Go to Top of Page

Thieran
Learned Scribe

Germany
293 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2011 :  12:57:59  Show Profile Send Thieran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice little tale, Mrs Cunningham, thanks for sharing it! I wonder whether "Murdock" instead of "Murdoch" is a typo or an intentional "obfuscation" of some sort? (Probably the former, as you haven't changed the name of the tabloid.)
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2395 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2011 :  13:33:20  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thieran

Nice little tale, Mrs Cunningham, thanks for sharing it! I wonder whether "Murdock" instead of "Murdoch" is a typo or an intentional "obfuscation" of some sort? (Probably the former, as you haven't changed the name of the tabloid.)



Yes, it's a typo. I'll fix that straight away. Thanks for the heads-up.
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2395 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2011 :  15:02:33  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm learning ebooks as I go along. This week I followed the example of fantasy and urban fantasy writers who start ebook series with a $.99 book, which meant repricing HONOR AMONG THIEVES. A novella-length story, 35,000 words, for $.99 strikes me as a pretty good deal.

To read more, see today's Writing Update on www.elainecunningham.com
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2011 :  18:40:51  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase

SLeyvas: No English translations of the Kalevala?



I once saw one at a Rennaissance Festival about 3 years ago, and I picked it up thinking it'd be an interesting read. The problem was that it was still written with such old english that I knew that I'd never actually read it. When I want to read stuff like this, I'm interested in stuff to be light and interesting and quick.... so that I drift off to sleep. I picked up a collection of Norse stories a few years back and they were great for being like 10 pages each maybe. They weren't quite written for kids (especially with some of the content), but not for the scholar either. I'm betting I won't be able to find anything easily, but I'll keep my ears open.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2395 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2011 :  17:05:03  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Today's post on www.ElaineCunningham.com is "Ravens," a small town ghost story that introduces an unusual partnership between a witch and a hit man.

First published in Modern Magic, an anthology from small press publisher Fantasist Enterprises.

Hope you enjoy the story! I'd be interested in hearing your comments, either on the website or by email (elainecunningham@cox.net.)
Go to Top of Page

bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe

199 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2011 :  06:54:44  Show Profile  Visit bladeinAmn's Homepage Send bladeinAmn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Today's post on www.ElaineCunningham.com is "Ravens," a small town ghost story that introduces an unusual partnership between a witch and a hit man.

First published in Modern Magic, an anthology from small press publisher Fantasist Enterprises.

Hope you enjoy the story! I'd be interested in hearing your comments, either on the website or by email (elainecunningham@cox.net.)



On so many levels, this was awsome. I'm better off for taking the time to read it (as always is the case when I read one of your works).
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2395 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2011 :  14:14:18  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bladeinAmn

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Today's post on www.ElaineCunningham.com is "Ravens," a small town ghost story that introduces an unusual partnership between a witch and a hit man.

First published in Modern Magic, an anthology from small press publisher Fantasist Enterprises.

Hope you enjoy the story! I'd be interested in hearing your comments, either on the website or by email (elainecunningham@cox.net.)



On so many levels, this was awsome. I'm better off for taking the time to read it (as always is the case when I read one of your works).



What a lovely compliment. Thanks, bladeinAmn.

Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 30 Jul 2011 15:03:01
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2011 :  14:54:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I quite enjoyed it. An unusual partnership, and an unusual problem. I'd like to see more of them.

Of course, I'm also still wanting to see more of GiGi.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2395 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2011 :  15:07:38  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I quite enjoyed it. An unusual partnership, and an unusual problem. I'd like to see more of them.

Of course, I'm also still wanting to see more of GiGi.



Thanks, Wooly. I would love to expand this story into a novel (or two or more).

As for Gwen (GiGi), I don't see that happening. The ownership of that project is too convoluted. I could maybe--MAYBE--get the ducks in a row for a direct-to-ebook sequel, but this would only make sense if Tor released the first two books in e-book format.
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2395 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2011 :  15:47:31  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Today's "Monday morning musings" post on www.elainecunningham.com discusses fantasy art an invokes the Three Patron Saints of Elvenboobs. Seriously, how can you NOT read that? ;)
Go to Top of Page

Thieran
Learned Scribe

Germany
293 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2011 :  17:04:45  Show Profile Send Thieran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very good post - so true!
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2011 :  18:20:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mmm, Kate Beckinsale...

Good points, though. I'm a guy, and I like looking at not-overly-dressed females... But I've commented more than once on the impracticality of some of the clothing worn by women in fantasy artwork. A particular pet peeve of mine is the woman with form-fitting plate armor -- as in, the breastplate doubles as a bra.

I would be happier with more realistic attire on fantasy females. Sure, make them attractive -- just don't expect me to believe that a woman is actually going into battle in a chain mail bikini, or that her clothing gets cut and ripped just enough to remain PG13 without going into R.

Things like that are one of the reasons I've always like the (assumably friendly) jab at Clyde Caldwell that was in The Wyvern's Spur.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2011 :  18:43:53  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Well, one can have big boobs and still fight. My bestfriend's sister who has really huge boobs is a martial artist---and she fights damn well. Other than that, let's face it, men (with the exception of Wooly and some others) like their heroines endowed with big boobs, in the same way most women like their heroes' bodies to be bulging with muscles.

Every beginning has an end.
Go to Top of Page

Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2011 :  20:05:28  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, Evangeline Lily must be an example of elven body, that's why she was invited to "The Hobbit".
Well, I don't know if a big breast impair fighting so much. However, I think girls that exercise a lot have the tendency to have less fat in their bodies, what could make their breasts smaller. Of course, genetics also affects it, and blonde or redhead women are usually more prone to having big breasts.
I've always assumed that elven girls were more delicate and petite, and so were their body proportions. Even in worlds where they are taller, elves are always considered thinner than the average woman. Besides, even those human girls with more curves would have to protect themselves, and I don't think barely dressed girls make any sense.
I'm not saying it's not good for the eyes... But I also have a lot of female players, and if a man is in full plate, why not having pictures of girls in proper armor and dresses? Cleavage can be present at some moment (one can easily think of some rogues), but it is not for the fights, for sure!

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2395 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2011 :  20:27:57  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Well, one can have big boobs and still fight. My bestfriend's sister who has really huge boobs is a martial artist---and she fights damn well.


::nods:: Which is why my post dealt with swords and archery, two fighting style in which excessive boobage DOES get in the way.

Slender, willowy elves might not be to every man's tastes. For those who believe that too much of a good thing is wonderful, might I suggest a half-orc?

Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 01 Aug 2011 20:31:32
Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2011 :  21:21:09  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Heh, I love the term "reasonable boobage".

Personally, I don't go for gigantic, pendulous breasts. More a legs man, myself.

A couple of reasonable handfuls are more than sufficient, in life or in art.

"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
Go to Top of Page

bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe

199 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2011 :  21:21:20  Show Profile  Visit bladeinAmn's Homepage Send bladeinAmn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Today's "Monday morning musings" post on www.elainecunningham.com discusses fantasy art an invokes the Three Patron Saints of Elvenboobs. Seriously, how can you NOT read that? ;)


Hmmm, while I don't usually associate cup-size with combat, I feel I still may enough knowledge in my mind, heart, eyes, spirit, pituitary gland & libido to effectively rebut some of the statements made. I figure you've researched your claims, I feel I must beg to differ, and simply point out that I believe your technique is wrong. Please allow me to demonstrate.

Regarding busty archers, I'm game. I mean, umm.. I, umm.. I mean, I believe in them!
The following link is of a beautiful girl and is entirely on topic:
http://www.fugly.com/pictures/22346/hot-bow-and-arrow-girl.html

I happen to think her technique is flawless. With this in mind, Beyonce Knowles, Selita Ebanks, Candace Swanepoel, & Erin Heatherton can be my amazons any day (though I'm sure Beyonce would be more comfortable as a 2e multi-classed cleric/mage). They all have varying degrees of cupsize, and thus I think that makes for excellent versatility within my band.

Regarding melee combat, even better. I mean, umm, I, I believe in them here too! I mean I've no problem in close quarters.

In addition to my sexual senses, even my battle senses agrees with female fighters in scantily clad garb!

Think how a male enemy must feel, being all battle hungry, and then the amazons come ready to face him in scantily clad garb! Depending on the amazon's charisma (I assume very high, such as the RL females I mentioned to go w/Arilyn), his sexual senses would most likely interfere with his battle frame of mind, thus giving at least a +4 to the amazons initiative, to hit, and to damage! No other factors need come into play! A show of cleavage in the midst of battle can turn the tide, me thinks - w/every fiber of my being, at that!

Edited by - bladeinAmn on 01 Aug 2011 23:51:25
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2011 :  21:40:18  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Well, one can have big boobs and still fight. My bestfriend's sister who has really huge boobs is a martial artist---and she fights damn well. Other than that, let's face it, men (with the exception of Wooly and some others) like their heroines endowed with big boobs, in the same way most women like their heroes' bodies to be bulging with muscles.



I never expressed an opinion on breast size.

I just said I think that the clothing often worn in fantasy art is unrealistic. If a woman is in a casual situation, then yeah, cleavage is not unreasonable. If she's going into battle, wearing nothing more than a fur bikini is not reasonable. And yet, we set very minimal armor or revealing clothes as the norm in fantasy artwork, regardless of the situation.

Actually, we see the same for some men in fantasy art, as well... It's just not as prominent as it is for women.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 Aug 2011 21:41:18
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2395 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2011 :  22:27:54  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bladeinAmn

Regarding busty archers, I'm game. I mean, umm.. I, umm.. I mean, I believe in them!
The following link is of a beautiful girl and is entirely on topic:
http://www.fugly.com/pictures/22346/hot-bow-and-arrow-girl.html


Please note that the archer in your picture is drawing a modern composite bow. It is far shorter than an medieval-era longbow and gets its power from a system of gears and pulleys. The angle of the string is above the bustline. Extend the length of the bow, and that angle changes, making injury more likely.

In all fairness, I've heard different opinions on this matter. As a member of the SCA, I'm aware that some women who compete in archery competitions and combat don't seem to be inconvenienced; however, other female archers find that they need to alter their posture and grip in order to accommodate their proportions. Here's one archer's perspective: http://www.archery-interchange.net/f16/boobs-too-big-25163/

Most female archers wear chest guards to protect against injuries. Here's an excerpt from the Abby Archery website:

A Chest Guard is used to prevent injury to the breast of female archers and to retain loose fitting or blouses or billowing clothing from interfering with the bowstring, especially when the archer is wearing clothing in cold weather or in wet conditions.

The prolonged repetition of pressure from the bowstring can lead to the formation of a lump within the fatty tissue, which is clinically difficult to tell apart from cancer tissue without a biopsy.



quote:
Think how a male enemy must feel, being all battle hungry, and then the amazons come ready to face him in scantily clad garb! Depending on the amazon's charisma (I assume very high, such as the RL females I mentioned to go w/Arilyn), his sexual senses would most likely interfere with his battle frame of mind, thus giving at least a +4 to the amazons initiative, to hit, and to damage! No other factors need come into play! A show of cleavage in the midst of battle can turn the tide, me thinks - w/every fiber of my being, at that!


Maybe, but any man who thinks this way is going to die on the end of that amazon's sword, assuming she's competent. I'm not a guy, but I'm guessing the threat of death, emphasized by a few hard knocks and cuts, will switch a fighter into survival mode no matter WHAT his female opponent is wearing. YMMV

Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 02 Aug 2011 00:41:43
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2011 :  22:31:40  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Well, one can have big boobs and still fight. My bestfriend's sister who has really huge boobs is a martial artist---and she fights damn well. Other than that, let's face it, men (with the exception of Wooly and some others) like their heroines endowed with big boobs, in the same way most women like their heroes' bodies to be bulging with muscles.



I never expressed an opinion on breast size.

I just said I think that the clothing often worn in fantasy art is unrealistic. If a woman is in a casual situation, then yeah, cleavage is not unreasonable. If she's going into battle, wearing nothing more than a fur bikini is not reasonable. And yet, we set very minimal armor or revealing clothes as the norm in fantasy artwork, regardless of the situation.

Actually, we see the same for some men in fantasy art, as well... It's just not as prominent as it is for women.



Heh. Some women in Feist's books work and fight topless all the time. (I forgot the race, though. But I think they're somewhere in the continent of Novindus.)

Every beginning has an end.
Go to Top of Page

bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe

199 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  01:50:50  Show Profile  Visit bladeinAmn's Homepage Send bladeinAmn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by bladeinAmn

Regarding busty archers, I'm game. I mean, umm.. I, umm.. I mean, I believe in them!
The following link is of a beautiful girl and is entirely on topic:
http://www.fugly.com/pictures/22346/hot-bow-and-arrow-girl.html


Please note that the archer in your picture is drawing a modern composite bow. It is far shorter than an medieval-era longbow and gets its power from a system of gears and pulleys. The angle of the string is above the bustline. Extend the length of the bow, and that angle changes, making injury more likely.

In all fairness, I've heard different opinions on this matter. As a member of the SCA, I'm aware that some women who compete in archery competitions and combat don't seem to be inconvenienced; however, other female archers find that they need to alter their posture and grip in order to accommodate their proportions. Here's one archer's perspective: http://www.archery-interchange.net/f16/boobs-too-big-25163/

Most female archers wear chest guards to protect against injuries. Here's an excerpt from the Abby Archery website:

A Chest Guard is used to prevent injury to the breast of female archers and to retain loose fitting or blouses or billowing clothing from interfering with the bowstring, especially when the archer is wearing clothing in cold weather or in wet conditions.

The prolonged repetition of pressure from the bowstring can lead to the formation of a lump within the fatty tissue, which is clinically difficult to tell apart from cancer tissue without a biopsy.



quote:
Think how a male enemy must feel, being all battle hungry, and then the amazons come ready to face him in scantily clad garb! Depending on the amazon's charisma (I assume very high, such as the RL females I mentioned to go w/Arilyn), his sexual senses would most likely interfere with his battle frame of mind, thus giving at least a +4 to the amazons initiative, to hit, and to damage! No other factors need come into play! A show of cleavage in the midst of battle can turn the tide, me thinks - w/every fiber of my being, at that!


Maybe, but any man who thinks this way is going to die on the end of that amazon's sword, assuming she's competent. I'm not a guy, but I'm guessing the threat of death, emphasized by a few hard knocks and cuts, will switch a fighter into survival mode no matter WHAT his female opponent is wearing. YMMV


Re: 1st point Gotcha. Jokes aside, you're the better authority on the subject as you're female & I'm male, and the only bow I've ever laid hands on was a very simple looking one, when I was a child. All I can effectively add is I think female Realms archers & RL female archers whose bust is a problem in their sport, ought to consider the sports bras that WNBA players wear.

Re: 2nd point Jokes aside again, I'm personally much too disciplined to ever let an attractive woman overcome me. However, most evil foes become (evil) villains by letting their ego or greed take control beyond ethics. Hence, because those emotions are so prevalent in so many ways in a villain's disposition (to the point that even a conscience effort to suppress it would be debatable in its success, according to each villain), I think it makes it easier for a female warrior's innate charms to take control in the 'heat' of battle. Like a sirine's ability to seduce a foe in the heat of battle, being actually able to reduce their intelligence to '2' in such an instance. I figure a scantily clad female warrior with high charisma, while her charms aren't magical like that of the sirine's, may be enough to turn a tide in a skirmish; obviously dependent on various foes 'mileage' in battle prowess.

Edited by - bladeinAmn on 02 Aug 2011 01:57:06
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  03:40:11  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Today's "Monday morning musings" post on www.elainecunningham.com discusses fantasy art an invokes the Three Patron Saints of Elvenboobs. Seriously, how can you NOT read that? ;)

You're definitely hitting on a point of contention that I've also long rallied against -- both as a fantasy and comic book reader.

Any reader of comics during the early 90's will undoubtedly recall the prolific number of "well-endowed" female characters who suddenly become "big-breasted cover-girls" almost overnight. Others, after years of being portrayed with smaller sized breasts, quickly graduated into the "well-endowed" category -- often without rhyme or reason. Both the publishers Marvel and Image were specifically guilty of this trend.

And it was something that was, unfortunately, repeated in much of the fantasy cover imagery of the time as well. Almost to the point where I was finding myself turning away from novel discussions that focused exclusively on these characters, rather than the story.

...

I suppose I should note that, as a male, I appreciate an amount of cleavage in my fantasy/comic imagery... but definitely not of the exploitative kind, nor the type of "well-endowed" imagery that usually serves, only, to attract a particular readership.

I'll note, also, that Elaine's example of Olivia Wilde is a worthwhile one. I've been looking over recent casting images and "action-shots" from Cowboys and Aliens, and it's very easy to see how Wilde has accomplished a much more fitting, and anatomically correct, flow for her physical form in battle. This is how I'd envision females in battle, and it should be among those sources referenced by future artists.

And I know I'm probably going against a heavily-reinforced male-based tide of those who love to see their "well-endowed" heroines in battle, but I find it infinitely more seductive and sexy, when I see any female character who shares what, if Elaine doesn't mind... physical attributes similar to those she named as Three Patron Saints of Elvenboobs, in deft battle. The fluid-like motion and gracefulness is entirely more enticing for me.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

Thieran
Learned Scribe

Germany
293 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  11:05:10  Show Profile Send Thieran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


[...] Other than that, let's face it, men (with the exception of [...] some [...]) like their heroines endowed with big boobs [...]



Isn't the point that regardless of men's preferences - that is, even if they personally prefer large breasts -, enlightened men should not wish to see women stereotypically and regularly portrayed with large breasts, for the sake of the "greater good" if you will, that is to prevent the spread of an unrealistic and sexist body/beauty ideal?

Expressed in simpler terms: though I might like large breasts, I don't want to see 90% of women in fantasy imagery having them.

P.S.: I will not participate in any discussion about the sexism point etc. - doubt it if you will, but you could then as well doubt other uncomfortable, but obvious truths like smoking being bad for your health.
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  12:06:37  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thieran

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


[...] Other than that, let's face it, men (with the exception of [...] some [...]) like their heroines endowed with big boobs [...]



Isn't the point that regardless of men's preferences - that is, even if they personally prefer large breasts -, enlightened men should not wish to see women stereotypically and regularly portrayed with large breasts, for the sake of the "greater good" if you will, that is to prevent the spread of an unrealistic and sexist body/beauty ideal?

Expressed in simpler terms: though I might like large breasts, I don't want to see 90% of women in fantasy imagery having them.

P.S.: I will not participate in any discussion about the sexism point etc. - doubt it if you will, but you could then as well doubt other uncomfortable, but obvious truths like smoking being bad for your health.



I'm gay, and believe it or not, 90% of the time, I don't like to see men in fantasy books posing topless or scantily clad and sporting bulging muscles. In fact, being very partial to wizards, I'd like them to be wearing robes, body totally covered, except the face of course.

The point is, I'm not the only gay man in the world. And there are those, perhaps majority of the gay community, who want to see nearly naked men in almost every book cover. Similarly, you and some of our fellow scribes here are not the only men in this world. Well, at least I know three men who literally want women in book covers---regardless of genre---to be as endowed as FHM models and pose like them.

The world is a huge place.

Every beginning has an end.
Go to Top of Page

Thieran
Learned Scribe

Germany
293 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  12:21:17  Show Profile Send Thieran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
True enough, but you seem to have overlooked that I precisely did not argue in the interest of my or other people's aesthetic preferences, but rather in the interest of their/our ethical preferences, i.e. in the interest of the "greater social good" if you will.

In other words: there are some - probably many, as you say! - men/women who actually personally like to see large breasts/muscled bodies dominating fantasy imagery because they aesthetically like them, but if they are interested in living in an enlightened society, they would be better off if they put their ethical preferences above their aesthetic ones. At least that's what I would recommend...
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  12:38:31  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Publishing is a business. A business must sell. And what's ethical to a select few does not necessarily sell. A hard truth, but there you go.

Not that I particularly like it. I even have my own recommendation, which is mainly based on what I want. But I would understand if those at the top reject it purely on the basis that most probably majority of the target consumers do not want what I want.

If business were to be strictly tethered to ethics, you'd hardly see any business survive at all.

Every beginning has an end.
Go to Top of Page

Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  13:30:58  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'd really like if we had options. Sometimes I like to show pictures to my gamers, specially of NPCs or, if they are beginners and I made their character sheets for them or with them, portraits of their own characters, to help them getting into the game. And it would be good to have some variety in body structure, as in hair color, armor donned, and so on.

And I really think that you can have big breasted fighting women, and other character whose primary ability is not to fight - like seductive rogues or vampires, for example. Not all of them, warriors or not, should be big breasted, in my opinion.

Besides, I think evil is not stupid, even if they are - sometimes - more prone to succumb to their desires. Since they are evil, they could beat first, and think of their desire after defeating the woman in question. Anyway, I think it would be too risky to a woman to bet solely on seduction and not to protect herself with a good armor (and a real seductive woman doesn't need to expose all of her skin to charm a man).

Fact is, there is beauty in many forms, and I don't think big breasts are necessary to make someone attractive. In the case of elves, specifically, the description of the race clearly indicates otherwise.

I don't think humans couldn't fight well with big breasts, and maybe it could be more difficult, initially, but training could compensate for it. But protection, of course, would be necessary and very welcome.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
Go to Top of Page

ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2395 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  14:44:21  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Huh. Boobage is apparently a topic of interest to gamer guys. This comes as a great surprise. :|
Go to Top of Page

Thieran
Learned Scribe

Germany
293 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  16:26:33  Show Profile Send Thieran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Publishing is a business. A business must sell. And what's ethical to a select few does not necessarily sell. A hard truth, but there you go.

Not that I particularly like it. I even have my own recommendation, which is mainly based on what I want. But I would understand if those at the top reject it purely on the basis that most probably majority of the target consumers do not want what I want.

If business were to be strictly tethered to ethics, you'd hardly see any business survive at all.



That's an ages-old and well-known "argument" - a truism rather than a truth, though, IMHO. It's a comfortable excuse to do or change nothing. Is that what one should teach to one's children? I wouldn't. To make the world better, one should move beyond such a stance of resignation/defeatism, right? I mean, if we let capitalism always trump ethics, what's the point?

Edited by - Thieran on 02 Aug 2011 16:28:07
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 37  Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2024 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000