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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Feb 2010 : 15:20:47
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quote:
Posted - 28 Nov 2009 : 03:05:52
Hi again, all. A quick Ed-reply to Kajehase’s question: “. . .what is the ratio of land-owning farmers to farmers paying someone (probably a noble or religious organisation, I'm guessing) for the privilege of working their homesteads in Cormyr, the Vast, and the Waterdeep uplands respectively?”
Ed replies:
The owners versus tenants ratio is about 85 percent owners to 15 percent tenants in Cormyr (with almost all tenant farmers in the southeast; if you expand the definition of “tenants” to include the household staff of nobility working the nobles’ farmland, AND include farmers who farm their own land but also farm a field or two owned by absentee landlords [[usually city folk or nearby nobles]], the ratio shifts to about 70 percent land-owning farmers versus 30 percent renting farmers).
In the Vast, it’s 75 owners to 15 tenants, but if you use the expanded tenant definition above, matters shift to about 67 percent owners to 33 percent tenants.
In the Waterdeep uplands (Goldenfields and similar temple-farms farmed by the resident clergy specifically excluded), the ratio is 82 percent owners to 18 percent tenants, but if you use the expanded definition, things shift only slightly (to 79 owners vs. 21 percent tenants).
So saith Ed. Who adds that Amn is the land where tenants widely outnumber owners, except in the hilly and mountainous borderlands.
love to all,
THO
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Arzakon
Seeker
Spain
58 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2010 : 15:42:37
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That changes things a lot. With such a high proportion of owners and free peasants, the majority of the peasants would have no salary; instead, they would sell their own products, making them less dependant on nobles and/or landowners.
So, checking back to the main question about peasants' resources, they could really afford cassil herbs and nararoots, and they should even have money to spend on the education of their children (this does not, however, mean that churches have no influence in this matter). And, finally, about demography, if they can really afford contraceptives and there's a high level of literacy, maybe the 4,5-5,5 family members average ratio doesn't fit the Realms.
Well, I think this question is finally solved, after all :D. Even if I do not agree to such a high amount of free peasants (it's not about "logics", just a matter of likes/dislikes), Ed's words answer any question about the low demography on the realms. If families are smaller because of contraceptives and a high degree of literacy, then it's okay to have Amn with such a low population. The only thing left to answer is about the big cities, but that's a minor issue.
Thanks for Ed's quote. That's been quite helpful. :) |
Edited by - Arzakon on 04 Feb 2010 15:45:12 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2010 : 16:24:22
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Arzakon, did you get files ok? Were they useful or hard to understand/use?
I would think the high education has other effects as well, recognizing that too many people per area causes all people to do less well. There is also much better health care in D&D.
In MA many children were had and in some regions it appears a child was not counted until they reached age 5 or so, the real world death rate of the young must have been much higher then in the realms. A peasant had many children in hope at least one would survive to take care of them when old age approached (at least I have seen this claim often made).
Knowledge is power, those of FR have a lot more knowledge then the peasants or serfs of the MA. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Arzakon
Seeker
Spain
58 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2010 : 17:29:50
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I did receive your files, and they're ok, even if I still have to work on them as there are some things that I do not understand.
About children, you're right. It was, generally, until the age of 7 (at least, from what I've read and studied) when they were "recognized" by their parents (not in the legal sense of the word, of course; until the Council of Trent in 1563 there was no need to register your children). So family members average rates on the MA are made taking this into account.
Anyway I just wonder how big are families supposed to be on the realms. If contraceptives are, with monsters and other things, the main cause of low demography, I wish anyone could give me some more info about families. But I think that family is something most roleplayers do not take care of, so there should be little information about this. |
Edited by - Arzakon on 04 Feb 2010 17:30:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 00:39:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Arzakon
Apart from divine casters, is it easy for people to change their faith? Are there no drawbacks? What about Kelemvor (I love this god, btw :D) dealing with people having... unstable faiths? Kelemvor is supposed to rip memories from the souls of atheist and non truly believers, and that souls become part of the Wall of Souls.
Well, in the Realms, your dominant faith (the deity you pay the most attention to) is going to be the one that most matches your own temperment and personality. So while it's possible to change faiths, in a way it would involve changing your personal outlook on matters. Obviously it would be easier to convert in some cases, like from Torm to Helm, than it would be in some other cases, like going from Torm to Waukeen. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 00:48:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arzakon
Apart from divine casters, is it easy for people to change their faith? Are there no drawbacks? What about Kelemvor (I love this god, btw :D) dealing with people having... unstable faiths? Kelemvor is supposed to rip memories from the souls of atheist and non truly believers, and that souls become part of the Wall of Souls.
Well, in the Realms, your dominant faith (the deity you pay the most attention to) is going to be the one that most matches your own temperment and personality. So while it's possible to change faiths, in a way it would involve changing your personal outlook on matters. Obviously it would be easier to convert in some cases, like from Torm to Helm, than it would be in some other cases, like going from Torm to Waukeen.
And its important to remember, too, as Power of Faerûn states that "Most folk in Faerûn embrace (or drift into) primary worship of one deity above -- even if only slightly above -- all others."
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 14:48:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arzakon
Apart from divine casters, is it easy for people to change their faith? Are there no drawbacks? What about Kelemvor (I love this god, btw :D) dealing with people having... unstable faiths? Kelemvor is supposed to rip memories from the souls of atheist and non truly believers, and that souls become part of the Wall of Souls.
Well, in the Realms, your dominant faith (the deity you pay the most attention to) is going to be the one that most matches your own temperment and personality. So while it's possible to change faiths, in a way it would involve changing your personal outlook on matters. Obviously it would be easier to convert in some cases, like from Torm to Helm, than it would be in some other cases, like going from Torm to Waukeen.
And its important to remember, too, as Power of Faerûn states that "Most folk in Faerûn embrace (or drift into) primary worship of one deity above -- even if only slightly above -- all others."
You also have to take into account that most in the realms worship or pay homage to multiple deities, not just one like devout clerics and many PCs who only worry about their patron deity cause it's required. Also, except for a few city-states in the shining sea area (and a few others in other places), you have multiple churches/shrines in a lot of towns, not just just one faith. So the rules/laws aren't made by just one faith, if at all nor control the populous like in MA. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 15:09:48
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quote:
Originally posted by rjfras
You also have to take into account that most in the realms worship or pay homage to multiple deities, not just one like devout clerics and many PCs who only worry about their patron deity cause it's required. Also, except for a few city-states in the shining sea area (and a few others in other places), you have multiple churches/shrines in a lot of towns, not just just one faith. So the rules/laws aren't made by just one faith, if at all nor control the populous like in MA.
This is something Ed built into the Realms from the very beginning. As he said back in '04:-
"So that’s the way I did it. DRAGON issue 54 contains my work-in-progress unfolding of a pantheon of gods, and a glance at that article will show you three things at work: like all D&D gamers at the time, I was trying to stay official, matching deities with what Gary Gygax had revealed of his (the Greyhawk setting); I wanted lots of gods (one aspect of the Realms that’s thus far been neglected is the extent to which Jonthun the baker next door worships Chauntea for a good harvest, Tymora for good luck in the baking, Talos for good weather so the grain crops won’t be ruined, and so on, all in the same day);" |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Demography on the realms
