| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 29 Mar 2010 : 12:58:15
Afternoon sages!
I'm sure we're all fairly familiar with good old Undermountain around here, but I was wondering if there were any other mega-dungeon class PC grinders hidden away in the realms. Note, I'm just as interested in your own creations as much as those officially written up.
Mithril Hall probably would qualify prior to it's re-conquest by the dwarves, and Gauntlgrym sounds like a prime candidate. Also, they're dwarfy, which I deem to be most awesome.
Anyway, the entire continent is festooned with ruins upon magic and monster riddled ruins, so there must be hordes of prime candidates for some kind of mega-dungeon talent and beauty contest out there! |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Mar 2011 : 22:21:26
I'm inclined to agree with Halidan; the problem with most mega-dungeons is sheer boredom. IMO, even Underdark carries things just a tiny bit too far at times. Kick-in-the-door or carefully-plod-and-map-the-darkness dungeon crawls are fine diversions but just aren't sufficiently engaging to sustain interest, they lack a lot of dimension. Where's the plot? Even powergamers and CRPG players on LevelUp XP harvesting rampages need a little plot to chew on. The Realms has a lot more to offer than, say, an expanded version of 1980s-style Eye of the Beholder, Wizardry, or Bard's Tale. [All fine games, btw, but certainly not as entertaining as a rich tabletop Realms campaign.]
I think TWLD would be a great product if it allowed visitors to actually exit the dungeon now and then, the underground railroad thing is just not palatable to players. It's an awesome product to replace or augment Undermountain or the Underdark, it can easily be chopped up into hundreds of bite-sized modules (and your players will never know if that creaky wooden door they just jammed open leads to the Tomb of Horrors - at least not until it's too late, mwoohahahaa).
I notice that larger dungeons equate into exponentially longer play times to complete, maybe it's just because my paranoid players stubbornly insist on scrutinizing every pebble for secret doors, maybe they're just slowpokes, I dunno.
Ruins of Greyhawk is another fine mega-dungeon sort of adventure. Meant to be set in the Greyhawk setting, of course. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 24 Mar 2011 : 22:03:36
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
Don't feel too bad Arik. I don't know of any group that has actually "finished" that dungeon.
That's the nature of megadungeons or campaign dungeons: they're dynamic environments, little worlds of their own; you can no more finish them than you can a city.quote:
Most FR mega-dungeons have a plot that's bigger than "kill the monsters, take their treasure" even if you're PC's don't know it when you first enter. It's one of the things that makes the Realms so different (and much more enjoyable in my opinion).
Well, they have a backstory, and a range of potential things PCs can choose to do in them. Not a plot in the sense of a single preordained purpose. You can explore the mysteries of Halaster -- or Zagyg -- but it won't exhaust Undermountain. In general, the Realms uses dungeons not so much as self-contained experiences but as elements to combine in larger struggles, as prototypically with the Knights of Myth Drannor's exploits in the Haunted Halls. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 17:27:39
When I ran Greyhawk, I used both pre-fab dungeons (TSR & 3rd party), along with several of my own creation. At that time, the plots were either very thin or non-existent (called 'fun-house' dungeons).
The closest I ever came to a plot for one of my homebrews was a ruined museum owned by eccentric archmage, long-dead. Someday I should scan some of my old hand-drawn maps just for posterity - they were MUCH better then the story-lines. 
Which is why I moved to FR when I 'matured' (or rather, my tastes did... the rest of me is still pretty juvenile). 
@Halidan - The Shades were looking for Eldorado TOO? 
You know, in a very bizarre way, that actually makes sense... |
| Halidan |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 13:50:15
Don't feel too bad Arik. I don't know of any group that has actually "finished" that dungeon. Personally, I have played in two different groups that have tried. It's just too huge, too repeditive (we must have killed 40+ near the entrance), and lacks any sort of overarching plot.
I think that's the difference between many FR mega-dungeons and most 3rd party ones - a plot. I especially like the plots from places like Thunderholme that Markusky just mentioned, which is to find out what happened to the missing dwarves and why they sealed their city. Most FR mega-dungeons have a plot that's bigger than "kill the monsters, take their treasure" even if you're PC's don't know it when you first enter. It's one of the things that makes the Realms so different (and much more enjoyable in my opinion). |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 08:49:13
Alderac Entertainment published a product called The World's Largest Dungeon, 850 pages, 16 full-sized poster maps, listed in the Guiness Book of Records. I once played in a group which entered this dungeon (it kinda replaced Undermountain), the group fell apart after three months, we never made it out. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Mar 2011 : 21:04:42
Dungeon of Death, Dragonspear, Hellgate Keep, Dungeon of the Crypt, etc, etc... the 1e maps were full of locales like that (and I believe the first two I mentioned actually have modules attached to them, IIRC).
For me, the best would be Thunderholme, which is infested with dwarven Skeletons, and "below lies some great evil". It is best described in the 2e Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms (which reads more like a story then a sourcebook, and is a GOLDMINE of info not available elsewhere). Its nestled in the Thunderpeaks.
Funny how there were dwarven kingdoms in the Cormyr Mountains, yet very little evidence of that remains. We have the Haunted Halls, the Crystal Grott, some 'invisble city' of mystics, Thunderholme, etc... not to mention Lost Oghrann... all evidence that the mountain ranges are extensively tunneled and hold ruins, but very little canonical evidence to link them all. Isn't there also at least one Drow city below Cormyr? (Sshanntynlan?)
Since most of the deeper dungeons connect to the Underdark at some point, and supposedly the deepest parts of the underdark connect to the Planer Underdark (The Underlands, pg.18, Beyond Countless Doorways), doesn't that make the entire universe one immense dungeon? 
We are just an experiment. When the rats find their way out of the maze, they find they have merely entered a larger maze.  |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 12:32:57
@alisttair:
aye it is.
the description of the interior reminds me of the scene in LOTR, where they "recruit" the undead traitors in the cave-city
|
| Alisttair |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 11:04:28
quote:
Originally posted by Jakuta Khan
the wailing dwarf comes to my mind here, too. A complete fortress city, filled with troll kings, guardian nagas and worse.....
Plus the shape of the exterior is awesome  |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 10:29:04
the wailing dwarf comes to my mind here, too. A complete fortress city, filled with troll kings, guardian nagas and worse.....
|
| Azyx Drow Wizard |
Posted - 25 May 2010 : 01:41:39
Just remembered something very interesting!
There has to be a place for a deepspawn somewhere in that dungeon.
Maybe an advanced version, with bigger HD.
I seem to remember a scroll here that mentioned the total number of spawn that a deepspawn can make. If some of the other sages could direct me to that scroll I would really appreciate it.
Those nasties also hoard items and gold and could make for a very interesting encounter, although the other inhabitants of the dungeon would ally together against this single threat. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 24 May 2010 : 22:48:33
Going wild is the whole idea!
You could have bits of the place divvied up into petty fiefs held by warring factions of fiends, half breeds, wizards and cults, all fighting over the treasures of the dwarves and the steady supply of other shiny bits helpfully supplied by idiot adventurers. You could have bolt holds of dwarves in there as well trying to retake portions of the place as well.
Given the location of the place 'powerful wizards' could mean all mean all kinds of nasties: netherese liches, shadovari magi, zhents of various persuasions and presumably drow of any number of factions... Glee! |
| Azyx Drow Wizard |
Posted - 24 May 2010 : 22:31:30
Maybe also on the lower levels that connect to the Underdark, the drow or duergar or mind flayers or beholders, or some such Underdark race has taken hold.
So we can make a conflict inside of the dungeon between the occupants on the different levels (borrowing heavily from Undermountain here
And maybe even add a dragon or two, or a whole family, for that matter, at the bottom most level with appropriate hoard to reward your players for getting this far.
( I know it's kinda stereotypical but everyone likes a good dragon fight, and they make very good end-villains)
Cleric Generic, please give me your opinion on this, as I am still in the process of learning how to become a good DM.
And, as always, any other opinion would be greatly appreciated.
|
| Azyx Drow Wizard |
Posted - 24 May 2010 : 22:20:57
Well, since Tethyamar is described as being overrun by " ogres, orcs, fiends and powerful wizards" we can pretty much go wild here, in terms of combining the encounters for the dungeon itself.
Also, there is mention of many on offspring left by the fiends, so there is room for all kinds of evil planetouched. Just to name a few: tieflings, tannaruk, lots of fiendish animals and magical bests as pets for the antagonists, and, then just for fun, throw in an ocassional NPC with a half-fiend template. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 24 May 2010 : 19:35:26
Welcome to the keep!
Cheers for pointing that out, actually; I'd forgotten about it. Should be good for some inspiration.
Do feel free to chuck any old ideas you might have onto the scroll, it's all good! |
| Azyx Drow Wizard |
Posted - 24 May 2010 : 18:52:01
Hail and well met knowledgeable sages!
As this is my first post, I implore you to bear with me.
It has been my hope for some time now, that I will become one of those who walk these hallowed halls of Candlekeep.
As far as this topic is concerned, there is a full description and a map of one of the outposts of the kingdom of Tethyamar, in the 3.5 edition book "Lords of Darkness".
Hope this helps.
|
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 15:36:24
A lot of the places we've listed so far, not least Tethyamar/Moria, are big enough to defy most attempts at mapping. Having said that, the poor ****ers I DM for are about to blunder face first through the front doors of Oreme and into a possible audience with the Terraseer, so whatever maps I scribble up for that I'll put a link to here, if anyone's interested. It may be a little while before reality lets me spend much time on that though, nor am I much of an artist, so don't get too excited.
Imaskar stuff is also fun. the Imaskarcana are great toys, and I've just written up a layer of the Abyss with Imaskari ties on one of the other shelves, which might be linkable to any such ruins to illicit extra blood-curdling screams. Do we ever get any hints anywhere about Imaskari architecture and aesthetics? I know they liked purple and had a thin for planar/spatial manipulation magic, but that's all I recall off the top of my head. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 13:22:09
How about the one in the computer game Dungeon Hack. That's a pretty big dungeon with lots of denizens. Where is it located anyways? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 01:18:01
quote:
Originally posted by Dinnin
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Just looked up the mines; yup, that's Moria! How the hell did I miss that? As for the Crypt, I'd like to get a good peek in, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the only way in is if you are politely invited, and even then typical adventuring behaviour may be ill advised. :)
I've recently been pondering the possibilities of Oreme, or whatever that city in northern Anauroch is called where the Sarrukh liches 'live'. You could definitely have some prolonged desert flavoured nastiness in the city itself and whatever lies beneath it.
Does anyone have a map of this?? i would love to see it
I don't recall an official map existing, actually. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 00:51:00
Ironfang Keep is for me one hell of an interesting place... No one knows whats in there! Not even Ed!!!
Ohh and Orome, well good luck getting passed the 25K old atomic-powerful liches!!!
Ohh ohh and the Imaskacani ruins... "The Imaskacana" do I need to say more! |
| Dinnin |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 00:25:32
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Just looked up the mines; yup, that's Moria! How the hell did I miss that? As for the Crypt, I'd like to get a good peek in, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the only way in is if you are politely invited, and even then typical adventuring behaviour may be ill advised. :)
I've recently been pondering the possibilities of Oreme, or whatever that city in northern Anauroch is called where the Sarrukh liches 'live'. You could definitely have some prolonged desert flavoured nastiness in the city itself and whatever lies beneath it.
Does anyone have a map of this?? i would love to see it |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 12 May 2010 : 21:49:56
Any further thoughts for sites worthy of development?
I'm going to be a tad busy for a few days yet to contribute much, but I think we can get some good community projects going around here! |
| Kno |
Posted - 06 Apr 2010 : 14:08:45
best for the Warlock's Crypt is Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast, Tethyamar http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/frindex/detail_58.htm#Tethyamar
|
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 05 Apr 2010 : 19:03:07
The biggest bit on Warlocks Crypt, I believe, is in Magic of Faerun (3e), and possibly some tidbits in GHotR. The other two are only briefly discussed in the 3e campaign setting (again, as far as I know) and GHotR.
I'm sure there are some 1e/2e sources I'm not familiar with though. |
| skychrome |
Posted - 05 Apr 2010 : 16:09:44
Question: where can I find information on Gauntlgrym, Tethyamar and Warlocks Crypt? |
| Gelcur |
Posted - 05 Apr 2010 : 15:10:27
If memory serves me correctly there are some 3E references for Tethyamar, an encampment. It would give you guys a base to see what architecture in the area was like. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 05 Apr 2010 : 12:00:57
Funky.
So there are plenty of dwarven ruins to pick from; so far we've mentioned Ascore, Gauntlgrym, Oghrann and Tethyamar. Other (non-dwarven) contenders are Shoonach, the 12 Cities of the Sword, Solon and Ahjuu, and a few non-city places like Ironfang Keep and Castle Perilous (which I think is a wonderfully cheesy name). Oh yeah, some some little hole in the ground called the Warlocks Crypt, or something... ;)
I'm sure e could easily spend the better part of a decade listing possible mega-dungeons (an activity I wholly endorse) but shall we pick one to start fiddling with in more detail? I find myself leaning towards the Mines of Tethyamar due to the Moria comparison or somewhere more exotic like Warlocks Crypt.
What other crazy stuff we got floating around out there? |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 05 Apr 2010 : 11:22:46
The old dwarven Kingdom of Oghrann comes to my mind. It is found beneath the Plain of Tun - between the Stormhorns on the east and the Sunset Mountains, Far Hills, and Easting Peaks on the west. That is a rather large area, IMO and supposedly full of tunnels and caverns filled with monsters guarding ancient but mighty dwarven magics and other riches. IIRC it now is controlled by a family of black dragons.
I always wanted to do a Campaign around this old lost and forgotten dwarven realm but never came around to it. However, I think it would very much qualify for a 'mega dugeon'.
Ergdusch |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 04 Apr 2010 : 22:04:53
Oh yeah, I was vaguely aware that Solon is of Imaskari origin, what I don't know is this 'otherworldly' aspect that Kno alluded to.
The 12 Cities of the Sword are the Jhaamdathi ones that got aqua-nuked by the elves in the Vilhon Reach, right? A quick scan of the Vilhon Wilds section of the 4e setting doesn't reveal anything about drained psionic necropoli, so we can just assume they are drained or not as suits our needs, I suppose. I does have some interesting things to say about spell-scarred pilgrimages to the area though.
While we're on the topic of 4e candidates, any of the big holes could be filled with fun stuff, the midget one in High Imaskar has something called the Bride Keep stuck in it. Not to mention the entire nation of Thay.
Also, should the question arise for this little project, lets concentrate more on the dungeon and it's contents than picking an edition to set it in. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 04 Apr 2010 : 16:45:44
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Wouldn't the 12 Cities of the Sword be considered 'Dungeons'?
Underwater 'Dungeons'...
no underwater ruins, that have elf slaying undead. and didnt they become surfaced when Mystra got fatally Spanked ? |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 04 Apr 2010 : 14:13:15
Imaskari Ruin...
Lets not forget...Ironfang Keep, or Castle Perilous. |
|
|
