| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Bane_the_Dark_Lord |
Posted - 05 Jul 2005 : 22:32:47
I askedt his on WoTC site and got little help so will post here.
They updated the Hathran in PGtF to only requiring a single spellcastin class and some other prereq changes. (also the powers changed a good deal.)
Has there been any 3.5 update of the Durthan along the same lines?
I know Richard Baker said if it wasn't updated it didn't need it, but this one seems to beg for it. |
| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Zanan |
Posted - 13 Jul 2008 : 11:03:37
Here's a list of the Hathran changes from 3,0 to 3,5E and my first suggestions of adopting the Durthan to 3,5E ...
Hathran changes 3,0E to 3,5E
Requirements – only one 4th level casting ability needed, not 2nd level arcane and divine
Level based powers (3,0E vs. 3,5E)
1 – Cohort, place magic vs. Leadership bonus, Rashemi Spirit Magic, Taboo
2 – None vs. Spirit Speech
3 – Fear (spell) vs. Awe of the Wychlaran (AotW), Universal Spirit Magic (USM)
4 – Circle leader vs. Spirit Concordat
5 – None vs. Circle Leader
6 – Fear (spell) vs. USM
7 – None vs. AotW
8 – Fear (spell) vs. Spirit Dominion
9 – None vs. USM
10 - Greater Command (spell) vs. AotW, Great Circle Leader
That is an increase of an old or a new ability in the 3,5E version every level, while the “old” ones have 4 levels with no ability and three levels with a single spell increase - for a total of 7 levels. In that respect, the new Hathran is surely more attractive than the old one, and more tied to the spirits of Rashemen at that.
The 3,0E Durthan is, rule- and ability-wise, very close to the 3,0E Hathran, even though, for some reason, they do not get the latter’s good Fort saves. That is something I would address too.
Going by the above, I’d suggest the following changes to the 3,5E Durthan:
Requirements:
Alignment: Any non-good, and in addition to that, divine casters according to their deities’ alignment and the one-step rule (at least officially)
Spellcasting Ability: Ability to cast 4th level arcane or divine spells.
Patrons for Divine casters: (“Working sheet” - Durthans are to represent a more destructive and hostile version and one would expect “evil” deities first and foremost, still here are some options that may not be downright “evil” too: Chauntea (N), Mystra (LE, LN) and/or Akadi (CN, LN, NE), Auril (CN, LE, LN), Azuth (LE, LN), Gargauth (LE, LN, NE), Kossuth (might be used, but his link to Thay may stop the Durthans), Loviatar (Retribution aspect, LE, LN, NE), Savras (LE, LN), Selûne (Protection aspect, CN), Silvanus (CN, LN, N, NE), Talos (CE, CN, NE), Velsharoon (CN, LE, LN – dealing with Thay like for like) and possibly some darker powers, such as female demon or devil lords closely connected to “witches”. There is also an option to make them use “Nature” or the “Spirit World” as such, something tied to the Place Magic bit.
Level based powers (3,0E vs. suggestions for 3,5E)
1 – Place magic vs. Rashemi Spirit Magic
2 – None vs. Spirit Speech
3 – Telthor Companion vs. Awe of the Wychlaran (AotW), Universal Spirit Magic (USM)
4 – Cold Resistance vs. Cold Resistance (unchanged)
5 – None vs. Spirit Concordat
6 – Cold Resistance vs. Cold Resistance, USM
7 – Telthor Companion vs. AotW (just one Telthor companion at any given time)
8 – None vs. Spirit Dominion
9 – Cold Immunity vs. USM, Cold Immunity (unchanged)
10 – Utter Cold vs. AotW, Utter Cold (unchanged)
Essentially, I kept some of the Durthan abilities and added those of the Hathran, which are feasible enough for the “evil” witches as well, i.e. the links to the lands and its spirit world. Awe of the Wychlaran extend to the Durthan too, as they are, to the common populace, Rashemar witches as well.
I left the circle magic stuff, as I do expect the Durthan not to be as unified as the Hathrans are.
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| Zanan |
Posted - 12 Jul 2008 : 09:22:02
IMHO, the UE's Durthan looks too much an evil "copy" of the FRCS' Hathran, especially with regards to the few abilities gained and the requirements regarding spellcasting. I would at the very least drop the latter to bring the Durthan up to PGtF standards. |
| Dracons |
Posted - 12 Jul 2008 : 04:44:09
PGTF page 5:
Recent Books: Races of Faerun and Unapporoachable East anticpiated most of the changes in 3.5 revision.
My guess is that Durthan works just fine. The skills are 3.5, and like the Hathran, must decide which of her spellcasting increases at each level, not both.
Also: Judging from their love of cold, Auril would be perfect! |
| Zanan |
Posted - 11 Jul 2008 : 12:08:40
Out of the doldrums ... since they make an appearance in The Shield of the Weeping Ghosts.
Maybe, despite 3E getting the cut, designers and authors can combine hereabouts and bring the Durthan up to date for 3RE?
Obviously, participants are welcome, though they would need access to the FRCS, Unapproachable East, and the PGtF.
I for one would keep the requirements of the old Durthan (nearly the same as the old Hathran), bar the dual-spellcasting stuff. What needs to be addressed is the special stuff they get - possibly linked to the new Hathran - as well as the deity requirement for divine casters.
Furthermore, since they are neutral or evil, we may look at options like the Shadow Magic (mysteries) and Binders of the Tome of Magic, both would be neat alternatives. And following that "evil witches" line of thought, some more "fiendish" patrons or "matrons" might be looked upon too, i.e. those linked to "witches" and "warlocks" as such too, e.g. Lilith, Baalphegor, Grazz't or the like. Of course, we need to discern Rashemar patron deities for evil divine casters as well, Auril springs to mind. |
| Chosen of Moradin |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 12:30:22
I don´t know if I remember correctly, but it´s said in the Player´s Guide to Faerun that the Unapprocheable East was released in conjunction with the 3.5 rules update. But, anyway, I think too that the Durthan deserve a substitution in the requiriments, to match the upgrade that the Hathran received.
Chosen of Moradin |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 05:24:08
They're in Unapproachable East, and I for one, can't seem to recall them being updated to 3.5 anywhere. |
| Thureen Buroch |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 00:59:42
It seems to me that I've heard of the Durthan, but I can't remember what sourcebook they're in. Can you tell me what sourcebook they can be found in? Myself and others might be able to help you better if we know where to find their stats! |
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