| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Valen |
Posted - 07 Feb 2022 : 18:09:33
So, I just reread Evermeet Island of Elves on a lark. It'd been so so long! I
have a question for those of you who might be a little more familiar with the width and breath of lore than am I. I found it interesting to hear what they mentioned of Amlaruil and Zaor's children (I hadn't remembered that they mentioned so much. about them at all), but I'm wondering if any of you might be able to help me out with a timeline of sorts that explains when each left Evermeet, stayed, or died in relation to what is the current year DR.
Odd request, I know, but I see lots of those in here.
Just looking for some clarification that I might be able to use.
Thanks to all in advance!!! |
| 24 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Barastir |
Posted - 21 May 2023 : 14:56:53
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
That project (among others) is on hold. Likely indefinitely. Moved on to other stuff.
-- George Krashos
What a shame... Well, count on me whenever you decide to resume it. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 17 May 2023 : 10:35:47
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
(...) I suspect that the project will expand in scope to deal with the history of the moonblades and some of the dissonant aspects of the lore associated with them.
(...)
-- George Krashos
Have you spoken with Mrs. Cunningham? We had a talk about moonblades some years ago, and she had a similar project I would help her with. It ended up indefinitely suspended, though. I still have the compilation I made of all things related to moonblades registered in Candlekeep at the time, among other material and exchanged messages (including possible solutions for lore discrepancies).
That project (among others) is on hold. Likely indefinitely. Moved on to other stuff.
-- George Krashos |
| Barastir |
Posted - 16 May 2023 : 16:35:25
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
(...) I suspect that the project will expand in scope to deal with the history of the moonblades and some of the dissonant aspects of the lore associated with them.
(...)
-- George Krashos
Have you spoken with Mrs. Cunningham? We had a talk about moonblades some years ago, and she had a similar project I would help her with. It ended up indefinitely suspended, though. I still have the compilation I made of all things related to moonblades registered in Candlekeep at the time, among other material and exchanged messages (including possible solutions for lore discrepancies). |
| BrennonGoldeye |
Posted - 27 Aug 2022 : 12:22:36
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Not yet.
Darn gnomes.
Demihumans are THE WORST.  |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 25 Aug 2022 : 23:12:54
There's also the little problem of Zaor's moonblade as #1 on the list of royal regalia, and effects thereof on the line of succession. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 24 Aug 2022 : 22:14:38
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One day Eric is going to surprise us with a 350 page "Gnomes of the Realms" supplement. 
Thought by some fools to be short elves, and by others to be forest gnomes, the little known Keebler Gnomes of the Misty Forest are master bakers who infuse their foodstuffs with the blessings of Sheyanna Flaxenstrand. It's also said that they have some secret portal network to the "short ones" of the Pasocada basin, and that they trade various foodstuffs with those halflings in exchange for cacao beans with which they make a striped shortbread cookie. Luckily their settlement is hidden by illusions, because its rumored that agents of the Glutton would like to find them and gobble up all of their foodstores. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Aug 2022 : 19:07:32
One day Eric is going to surprise us with a 350 page "Gnomes of the Realms" supplement. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 24 Aug 2022 : 16:31:57
Not yet.
Darn gnomes. |
| BrennonGoldeye |
Posted - 24 Aug 2022 : 15:41:39
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I confess that Eric and I have mapped out the entire Moonflower lineage from Zaor onwards and also had a play with the history of Arilyn's moonblade. It's slated for a DM's Guild release and I recently did some work on it but as every punter who frequents the Guild is seeking WotC production values, the art is the hard part. We'll see what can be done but I suspect that the project will expand in scope to deal with the history of the moonblades and some of the dissonant aspects of the lore associated with them. That's going to take a little bit of time.
-- George Krashos
Oh now this I want to see. Xharlion, and to an extent Zhorin, plays a major figure in a 20 year mega-arc that just ended in 2020 in my play. Is this out already George?
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 08 Feb 2022 : 22:46:55
I would expect that Auseriel would feature in a sidebar but the article would likely be "set" pre-Spellplague.
-- George Krashos |
| kysus |
Posted - 08 Feb 2022 : 21:58:33
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I confess that Eric and I have mapped out the entire Moonflower lineage from Zaor onwards and also had a play with the history of Arilyn's moonblade. It's slated for a DM's Guild release and I recently did some work on it but as every punter who frequents the Guild is seeking WotC production values, the art is the hard part. We'll see what can be done but I suspect that the project will expand in scope to deal with the history of the moonblades and some of the dissonant aspects of the lore associated with them. That's going to take a little bit of time.
-- George Krashos
would this by chance also cover what is going on with the hidden realm of Auseriel since that is where one of the elf princes was last located? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Feb 2022 : 12:29:37
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I confess that Eric and I have mapped out the entire Moonflower lineage from Zaor onwards and also had a play with the history of Arilyn's moonblade. It's slated for a DM's Guild release and I recently did some work on it but as every punter who frequents the Guild is seeking WotC production values, the art is the hard part. We'll see what can be done but I suspect that the project will expand in scope to deal with the history of the moonblades and some of the dissonant aspects of the lore associated with them. That's going to take a little bit of time.
-- George Krashos
Now this is exciting. Please dont rule out the possibility of some evil influence. I realise most people like them as the goody goody artefacts, but a few of us like to twist them to evil and the confused lore currently allows for this.
I wonder if awesome art is worth it. When selling a used car, if you MOT and service it you can sell it for more, but typically the new sale price is only marginally more than the cost of repairs to get it through the MOT.
If you add good art you can sell it for more, but will it attract many more buyers from the crowd that love WoTC release (and so probably dont care about the lore).
I will buy it regardless of art, at any price you list it at, although I may have to save up for a big price. I suspect many people here will do the same.
Really looking forward to this one. It's been a while since we had new lore.
I'll say this much... you need to put SOMETHING as a cover. You can make the most bland-arsed drawing you made in paint and put it up there. You can just make a cover of symbols that are colored. But the covers that are just a wall of text, sadly it just looks like you don't care (and usually they don't from what I've seen). Most people can make at least simple artwork.
Then for those without the cash but willing to take the time to look on thingiverse, you can download an STL file of a 3d model, download microsoft's paint3d for free, and color someone's figure that they've made and put up allowing for commercial use. I'm actually surprised to see so few people doing that. I get that they might not be able to make their own 3d models, but painting an already created 3d model... I can literally teach a 6 year old to do it in about 10 minutes. Now, is it the greatest art? Nope. But, so far I haven't spent a dime to put artwork in my stuff. It does slow me down a bit, but at least I get a chance to make my own stuff.
One other thing I've really started to learn. When I first started wanting to make 3d models, I wanted to make sure I made an object that makes sense from any angle. Then I realized.... if I'm only using it to paint it in paint3d and not share up to print, I only need it to look good from the angle that I want. The parts you can't see can look like crap. Once it becomes a flat picture, noone will know. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Feb 2022 : 12:10:37
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Anyone know what “diplomatic mission” Lazziat and Gemstarzah were on? Where is that sourced?
Wait.... are you thinking what I'm thinking? Warrior twins? "The War Twins" from City of Gold? If you are, not sure I'd do that.... but I do like the idea of them going on a sea mission to discover "a lost tribe of elves rumored to be in Anchorome" and maybe chasing the story of the war twins as well. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 08 Feb 2022 : 07:28:21
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I confess that Eric and I have mapped out the entire Moonflower lineage from Zaor onwards and also had a play with the history of Arilyn's moonblade. It's slated for a DM's Guild release and I recently did some work on it but as every punter who frequents the Guild is seeking WotC production values, the art is the hard part. We'll see what can be done but I suspect that the project will expand in scope to deal with the history of the moonblades and some of the dissonant aspects of the lore associated with them. That's going to take a little bit of time.
-- George Krashos
Now this is exciting. Please dont rule out the possibility of some evil influence. I realise most people like them as the goody goody artefacts, but a few of us like to twist them to evil and the confused lore currently allows for this.
I wonder if awesome art is worth it. When selling a used car, if you MOT and service it you can sell it for more, but typically the new sale price is only marginally more than the cost of repairs to get it through the MOT.
If you add good art you can sell it for more, but will it attract many more buyers from the crowd that love WoTC release (and so probably dont care about the lore).
I will buy it regardless of art, at any price you list it at, although I may have to save up for a big price. I suspect many people here will do the same.
Really looking forward to this one. It's been a while since we had new lore. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Feb 2022 : 05:17:13
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I confess that Eric and I have mapped out the entire Moonflower lineage from Zaor onwards and also had a play with the history of Arilyn's moonblade. It's slated for a DM's Guild release and I recently did some work on it but as every punter who frequents the Guild is seeking WotC production values, the art is the hard part. We'll see what can be done but I suspect that the project will expand in scope to deal with the history of the moonblades and some of the dissonant aspects of the lore associated with them. That's going to take a little bit of time.
-- George Krashos
I'll do some art for you, cheap!
...You don't mind stick figures, do you? |
| HighOne |
Posted - 08 Feb 2022 : 04:15:12
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
...every punter who frequents the Guild is seeking WotC production values...
I've noticed this too, and it has kept me from publishing anything on the DM's Guild. Too much rigmarole, and too much upfront cost for something that isn't likely to sell anyway (adventures). |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 08 Feb 2022 : 03:55:00
I confess that Eric and I have mapped out the entire Moonflower lineage from Zaor onwards and also had a play with the history of Arilyn's moonblade. It's slated for a DM's Guild release and I recently did some work on it but as every punter who frequents the Guild is seeking WotC production values, the art is the hard part. We'll see what can be done but I suspect that the project will expand in scope to deal with the history of the moonblades and some of the dissonant aspects of the lore associated with them. That's going to take a little bit of time.
-- George Krashos |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Feb 2022 : 02:06:16
Reposting, after tweaking it a bit, in light of the other info I dug up.
Note: this is all personal speculation and ideas! I'm building off of and in some cases tweaking existing information, but none of this is canon or even hinted at in canon.
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Anyone know what “diplomatic mission” Lazziat and Gemstarzah were on? Where is that sourced?
I don't recall anything specific... I'd say that as warrior twins, they were most likely being sent to aid an elven community that needed defending, much like what Arilyn did.
I like the idea that Finufaranell basically walked away from the family -- not in anger, but just as a way to live his own life, like his sisters Tira-allara and Hhora. I favor him for that largely because I think Zandro is the cooler name and I'd prefer to find some other role for him. I think I'd have Zandro being an active agent of the queen -- maybe pretending to be an adventurer, but actually following Mom's orders.
Chozzaster and Shandalar are the ones I'm personally most interested in. I'd have both of them living, myself, both under new identities.
I'd have it so that Shandalar's accident was actually an assassination attempt, maybe by a hotheaded gold elf subtly and very indirectly egged on by Kymil Nimesin. She was, in fact, mortally wounded, but received healing magic before it was too late -- though no one outside of a very select few knew she survived. Realizing that the "accident" most likely wasn't, Amlaruil arranged for Shandalar to be sent elsewhere (Evereska, most likely), under a new identity to continue her training, before returning to Evermeet (still in disguise) to start working her way into a position of power where she could serve as a strong ally to her mother.
Similarly, I favor Chozzaster's passage to Arvandor being a false story. Knowing that someone tried to kill his sister (or, perhaps, knowing of other attempts against his family), he publicly removed himself from the picture so that he could study magic freely without worrying about the same thing. I think I'd have him living under an assumed identity in Myth Nantar, and in regular contact with his mother. Why Myth Nantar? Because there he would still be among elves, but would have a fair degree of isolation from Evermeet -- more isolation, perhaps, than a lot of surface elven communities.
The remaining twin on Moonshae I think would be a ranger type. I'd have him having withdrawn from pretty much everyone, with the death of his brother, and basically stalking the wilds and taking out his anger on any evil-types he stumbled across. I don't think I'd have him in Moonshae any more, but instead somewhere on the mainland. It might be a fun twist if his brother still lingered, somehow, as a unique spirit or something, and the two were still together. Of course, that could be a stretch, given the fate of the lost twin.
The son of Elaith and Amnestria is the only one I don't have any particular thoughts on. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Feb 2022 : 01:47:53
Okay, looking through my files, I found more on the Moonflower kids.
quote:
The Children of Evermeet's Royal Family
The Offspring of King Zaor and Queen Amnestria
As written by Elaine Cunningham
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of Evermeet's mysteries and tragedies concerns the Lost Children. Many of the offspring of Zaor and Amnestria have died, but the fate of several of the princes and princesses has not yet be determined.
The royal issue, and their current state, follows in order of birth.
Ilyrana, the first born, a priestess. Her body currently lies in deep stasis in Moonflower Castle, and her spirit abides in Arvandor. During battle she acted in some mysterious, hard-to-define way as an avatar focus for the goddesses she served, and the result was a titanic battle maid comprising her spirt as well as power borrowed from the elven gods. It is unlikely, but not absolutely impossible, that she will return to Evermeet. Even before her sacrifice, she was not at all eager to take the throne.
Xharlion and Zhoron, twin sons. They are mirror images of each other and their father, the king. The rowdy, robust elven lads seemed destined for the warrior's life. The queen sent them to the Moonshaes for fosterage among the elves of Sonoria. One of them - it is not certain which one - was slain when the Ityak-Ortheel attacked the Moonshaes. It is not known if the other survived, or if so, what became of him.
Chozzaster, the next-born son, became a High Mage. He passed on to Arvandor at a young age, not because of illness or accident, but simply because the call of the ultimate elven homeland was too strong for him to resist.
Shandalar became a bladesinger, trained in the art by bladesinger Shanyrria Alenuath. She was accidentally killed by a fellow student, a spell-singer, during a training drill. It is not certain whether Shanyrria, her mentor, survived. If so, the bladesinger will be eager to avenge the death of this princess, her student and namesake.
Tira-allara and Hhora were female twins, both devoted to the service of Hanali Celanil. Both were excessively devoted to the cult of love, and each in her own way met the fate of those who love not well, but immoderately and unwisely. Tira-alara became involved with a rogue who used her wealth and position, then broke her heart. Elves are capable of wishing themselves dead, but few take this grim option. The princess was an exception, and she literally died of grief. Hhora left Evermeet determined to wed a commoner she met and loved during a seasonal festival. Perhaps she found her love, perhaps not. She disappeared into the High Forest, and no one has been able to learn what became of her.
Another set of female twins, Lazziar and Genstarzah, both trained as warriors and served as diplomats to mainland elves. They were lost at sea, and their fate has never been established.
Amnestria was a battle mage, and King Zaor's favorite child. She was betrothed to Elaith Craulnober, a distant kinsman who served as captain of the King's Guard. When Elaith broke with her over a personal disgrace, she followed him to the mainland - and fell in love with his human friend, Bran Skorlsun. In secret she gave birth to Elaith's son, and hid the child in secret fosterage. She later bore a girlchild to Bran, but she was slain before she could train her daughter in the secrets of the moonblade she would inherit. This half-elven child, Arilyn, was able to claim the sword - the first person of mixed blood ever to do so.
Lamruil, the youngest son, has been an adventurer for years. He was not widely liked by the nobles of Evermeet, considered too young and frivolous to rule, but he held the throne briefly following the sacrifice of Amlaruil. He happily abdicated the throne back to his mother, and undertook the task of planting the Tree of Souls on the mainland. He has chosen a hidden valley far to the north, a place surrounded by incredibly inhospitable terrain. He will be kept very busy recruiting a following, subduing the land, and establishing the colony. His consort, a mostly-human woman named Maura, will probably prove to be equal parts help and hindrance. It is unlikely that their children will succeed him as ruler. Maura is a teenager, but she is also impulsive, a warrior, and a human. None of those things lend to an impressive life expectancy. It is likely that the elves tolerate her, believing that they can put up with her for a human's relatively short span. Lamruil will undoubtedly be urged to take an elven consort and produce suitable heirs - either before or after Maura's death.
Or perhaps another form of government, one not based on monarchy or hereditary nobility, will evolve. One thing is certain: Lamruil will return to Evermeet to rule only if he feels the island has no other acceptible options. He would gladly throw his support behind a likely candidate for the throne. Like most of Toril's elves, however, he hopes that the end of Queen Amlaruil's reign will be very long in coming.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Seethyr |
Posted - 07 Feb 2022 : 21:19:31
Anyone know what “diplomatic mission” Lazziat and Gemstarzah were on? Where is that sourced? |
| Valen |
Posted - 07 Feb 2022 : 19:34:58
Many thanks Wooly Rupert!
This is the kind of insight that I ws looking for really. I know that not much of this live in the actually factual material we have available, but your statement about Amlaruil knowing what happened to her children whether it's common knowledge that she does or not is exactly what I wanted. I just needed someone else to say it. Thanks for that.
I too get excited when think about coulda, shoulda, woulda happened to places and characters in the Realms. I'm particularly interested in the sets of twin daughters, one of whom(Hhora) who is known to have been a priestess to Handle Celanil and is believed to have left royal life and Evermeet to run off to the mainland with a commoner she was in love with.
Thanks again! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Feb 2022 : 19:24:31
No dates, but here's a couple relevant bits of info.
First, a quote from Elaine Cunningham:
quote:
Yes, several of the royal Moonflower children are dead or MIA. But if you keep in mind that the book is told from a human's point of view, with all the limitations that suggests, the phrase "nothing is known" takes on a different meaning. The ELVES know the fate of most members of their royal family, and in every case Amlaruil knows what befell her children. She would not rest until she had this knowledge, and she has the resources needed to find it. Some of the "missing" princes and princesses are dead, others quietly removed from succession because for one reason or another they are unsuited to rule, and others simply choose to live their lives away from the royal court and the public eye. The elven queen keeps her secrets, and those of her family.
Here's my notes on the list of kids. I think we only have dates for like three or four of them, but I did not note those dates.
Ilyrana - princess, lost in attack on Evermeet
Zhoron and Xharlion - twin brothers, one was lost when Elf-Eater attacked Synnoria on Moonshaes; which one was lost and the fate of the other are unknown
Chozzaster - aspired to be a High Mage, died young
Shandalar - fire-haired daughter, accidentally slain during bladesinger training
Tira'allara and Hhora - twins, priestesses of Hanali Celanil
Lazziar and Gemstarzah - female twin warriors, ship lost at sea
Amnestria - had a son by Elaith, fate unknown
Zandro - male mage
Finufaranell - male mage
Lamruil - with Maura, Laeral's daughter, off making new elfland with Tree of Souls
----
I have nothing to back it up, but I personally think that one of the ones known to be dead isn't actually dead. We don't know anything, really, about Chozzaster or Shandalar -- but what if their deaths were faked for some reason? Who faked it, and why -- well, those are questions that could go in multiple directions.
Again, not at all canon; nothing even hints at it... But with a lack of solid information, that means there is wiggle room. |
| Valen |
Posted - 07 Feb 2022 : 19:17:38
Everett has been corrected to read Evermeet thanks to Great Sleyvas! Many thanks for chiming in.
Many thanks to you. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 07 Feb 2022 : 18:47:49
Everett? |
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