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T O P I C    R E V I E W
DeBasilisk Posted - 02 May 2021 : 16:55:36
Good day!

I am working on some character backstory and need to know how long the deity of Mask has existed. I understand that general consensus is that he began as a herald, chosen or “son” of Shar; is there any material that suggests when he walked the realms, or the earliest that his faith is mentioned? I know that he is not a part of the official Netherese pantheon though Shar is, does that suggest that his ascension occurred after the Fall of Netheril?

Any help would be much appreciated!
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Charles Phipps Posted - 17 Apr 2022 : 04:36:56
While non-canon, I was always intrigued by the idea that Vhaeraun might be related to Mask somehow.

After all, he's a god of Thieves and Shadow himself.

Maybe Mask is his human incarnation?
Wooly Rupert Posted - 28 May 2021 : 16:36:52
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

quote:
... It wasn't cosmos-spanning. Since the advent of 3E, the stance has been that Toril's Prime is the only thing out there, and that other worlds don't exist. This was, of course, a retcon, since it invalidated all the connections the Realms has had to other worlds and the numbers of entities, including deities, who have come from other worlds.

And this retcon remained until Shar was inexplicably retconned into expanding her influence to other worlds just to destroy them -- though, aside from that retcon of a retcon, there still isn't much mention anywhere of anything beyond Realmspace.

There's never been any indication, aside from the possible exception of Elminster's travels, that Mystra even pays attention to anything beyond Realmspace.

Doesn't 4E canon trump 3E canon by default, officially?


Well, yeah, but at least at the start of 4E, it maintained the "alone in the cosmos" approach of 3E -- aside from the Far Realm, there's not even a hint that there is anything out there, aside from Realmspace.

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Your argument is sensible, though it seems quite strange coming from someone who loves Spelljammer, and just as strange going to someone who loves Planescape, lol.



The fact that I love Spelljammer and I like Planescape doesn't enter into it -- canon was changed to chuck all those things out. And even if they were maintained, there was still nothing suggesting Shar paid any attention to anything beyond Realmspace, until suddenly she was retconned to be multispheric and even more of a cartoon villain.

I complained long and hard about the cosmology changes, when 3E came out, because of the way it chucked out Spelljammer and Planescape and a good chunk of prior Realmslore.
Ayrik Posted - 28 May 2021 : 15:43:20
quote:
... It wasn't cosmos-spanning. Since the advent of 3E, the stance has been that Toril's Prime is the only thing out there, and that other worlds don't exist. This was, of course, a retcon, since it invalidated all the connections the Realms has had to other worlds and the numbers of entities, including deities, who have come from other worlds.

And this retcon remained until Shar was inexplicably retconned into expanding her influence to other worlds just to destroy them -- though, aside from that retcon of a retcon, there still isn't much mention anywhere of anything beyond Realmspace.

There's never been any indication, aside from the possible exception of Elminster's travels, that Mystra even pays attention to anything beyond Realmspace.

Doesn't 4E canon trump 3E canon by default, officially?

Your argument is sensible, though it seems quite strange coming from someone who loves Spelljammer, and just as strange going to someone who loves Planescape, lol.
Eldacar Posted - 24 May 2021 : 21:26:07
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

There's never been any indication, aside from the possible exception of Elminster's travels, that Mystra even pays attention to anything beyond Realmspace.


The predecessor to Midnight-Mystra was friends with Wee Jas, so there is that at least. That was pre-3e of course, though even in 3e you had things like Dragon articles with the World Serpent Inn still interlinking different settings together.
DeBasilisk Posted - 24 May 2021 : 16:26:21
I just wanted to add a thank you to everyone for all the great responses! Much appreciated good folk!
Wooly Rupert Posted - 23 May 2021 : 02:50:55
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

quote:
Where does it say Mystra is multispheric?

4E ... Spellplague ... cosmos-spanning destruction because Mystra stumbled (again) ...



It wasn't cosmos-spanning. Since the advent of 3E, the stance has been that Toril's Prime is the only thing out there, and that other worlds don't exist. This was, of course, a retcon, since it invalidated all the connections the Realms has had to other worlds and the numbers of entities, including deities, who have come from other worlds.

And this retcon remained until Shar was inexplicably retconned into expanding her influence to other worlds just to destroy them -- though, aside from that retcon of a retcon, there still isn't much mention anywhere of anything beyond Realmspace.

There's never been any indication, aside from the possible exception of Elminster's travels, that Mystra even pays attention to anything beyond Realmspace.
Ayrik Posted - 22 May 2021 : 22:35:57
quote:
Where does it say Mystra is multispheric?

4E ... Spellplague ... cosmos-spanning destruction because Mystra stumbled (again) ...

quote:
And I don't see why she had to become multispheric for the story. Is not the desire and willingness to destroy an entire solar system enough? Would people be less interested in saving themselves and their world if the villain was purely local, instead of cosmic?

I agree. It's just the usual auctorial inflation. Never threaten the setting with a simple nova or standard god when a galaxy-threatening supernova or a cosmic uber-god would be so much more spectacular, eh?
Wooly Rupert Posted - 16 May 2021 : 02:56:14
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Shar is a multi-spheric mega-goddess for the same reasons Mystra is a multi-spheric mega-goddess: a necessary contrivance for the purposes of new fiction.

Shar and Mask were fairly unimpressive nobodies in 1E and 2E. Remember that the Realms we were given at that point - circa 1357DR-ish - had already existed (in universe) for many tens of millennia. Shar and Mask might've been jumped up and pimped up a little for a new edition or trilogy but they seem to have been rather unremarkable (and weak) deities for the other 99.9% of the time they've officially been around.



Where does it say Mystra is multispheric?

I personally liked Mask and Shar as they were. As I said earlier, now Shar is a caricature of a villain lacking only a mustache to twirl. Mask as a servant of another power is also less interesting than one that's out there stirring up stuff entirely on his own.

I've no idea where the idea that Shar was weak comes from.

And I don't see why she had to become multispheric for the story. Is not the desire and willingness to destroy an entire solar system enough? Would people be less interested in saving themselves and their world if the villain was purely local, instead of cosmic?
Ayrik Posted - 16 May 2021 : 00:39:17
Shar is a multi-spheric mega-goddess for the same reasons Mystra is a multi-spheric mega-goddess: a necessary contrivance for the purposes of new fiction.

Shar and Mask were fairly unimpressive nobodies in 1E and 2E. Remember that the Realms we were given at that point - circa 1357DR-ish - had already existed (in universe) for many tens of millennia. Shar and Mask might've been jumped up and pimped up a little for a new edition or trilogy but they seem to have been rather unremarkable (and weak) deities for the other 99.9% of the time they've officially been around.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 14 May 2021 : 21:20:17
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

Weird, indeed. What does Realmspace tell about Shar?
Just to cover all AD&D2 era sources, even not so great.



Not a whole lot. Her only mentions are in the "Religion in the Stars" section, where it says, on page 76:

quote:
These priests are unable to cast spells once they leave the sphere. In past history, Shar would not accept them again once they left Realmspace, but since the Time of Troubles, she has softened her angers toward those struck by wanderlust.

While inside the sphere, the priests of Shar can cast and gain spells normally. Unfortunately, most of these individuals demand that they be allowed to cover the entire ship with continual darkness spells so they can hide the ship from view better. This trick does not work all the time, though. When a ship concealed with continual darkness passes in front of a light source, the blackness is very noticeable: this happens even against a star field.


I hate to admit it, given my opinion on the lore concerning Toril in this source, but this does further back up the assertion that Shar being multispheric is a retcon.
sleyvas Posted - 14 May 2021 : 20:15:50
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It doesn't matter how many worlds are retconned into Realmspace, that doesn't give Shar any reason to look elsewhere.

Really, the whole thing of making her multispheric *and* adding that she's actively working to destroy all these other worlds -- that just furthers the 3E/4E trend of making Shar a 2-dimensional comic book villain.

Before, she just wanted to return to the dark comfort she'd known at the beginning of Realmspace. Now, she's out to destroy everything, for reasons. Give her a mustache to twirl and her move to being a caricature is complete.

People complained that the Zhents had become the Keystone Kops, and WotC's reaction was to turn Shar to Snidely Whiplash.



My point was though, it is IN realmspace. Mortals do something that possibly CAUSES the creation of a new world (and for all we know, it wasn't Ao that created Abeir..... like many gods, he may be taking credit that he isn't due... it could have been the result of a Primordial's actions, and whether Ao IS a primordial as well as an overgod is also in question, and how many overgods are there, blah blah... the many discussions we've had). Shar then goes "damn it, that's ANOTHER world in realmspace too... I gotta destroy that too now or I'll NEVER get any sleep".

Sidebar note though... Mask disappeared after the spellplague. My thoughts would put him in Abeir along with a lot of OTHER missing gods. So, was he a HERALD that a great darkness would eventually be coming to Abeir (say AFTER the sundering when Mystra comes back and seizes the reins of both weave and shadow weave, which have been remerged)? Just a thought... put a pin in that for some theorizing later. NOTE: One of the places in realmspace that "the weave didn't exist" WAS Abeir.... which may now be different.

To note, I am not real concerned with whether or not I like the whole representation of Shar as she was shown. I'm more of a "hey, it happened, how can we use it". My point though was that some people might be more upset that she's a goddess in another "crystal sphere" whereas this concept puts her as a goddess still within the same "crystal sphere", but over another "dimension" within it. It might be an interesting way to blend the original 1e concept of the prime material with the 2e concept of the prime material as separated crystal spheres with the 4e concept of Abeir and Toril as existing in the same "space" but out of phase with each other AND still have these gods as being gods in "other worlds". Maybe Realmspace isn't the only crystal sphere with multiple out of phase "dimensions"/"planets". Maybe even the whole Eberron concept of outer planes that fade in and out aren't even really "outer planes", but rather other "phased primes" in other crystal spheres where the spheres are nearing each other. But, I've gotten way off topic.... as usual... sorry.
TBeholder Posted - 14 May 2021 : 20:13:44
quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Honestly, Shar being multispheric is another thing that bugs me. For one thing, this is yet another of those things that just came out of nowhere. For another thing, I don't think it fits her character. She's been described as wanting to return to the nothingness that originally existed in Realmspace -- so why would she bother paying attention to anything beyond Realmspace?


quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus


-If I am recalling correctly, the books portrayed Mask and Shar as being multispheric entities.


A brief dive into my available 2E books (On Hallowed Ground, among others) doesn't suggest that Shar is multispheric per se.

It does, however, say there is Chant that some of Shar's proxies on the Wheel have discovered the worship of a Cerilian power, Nesirie the Lady of Mourning. And that because of it, some of Shar's proxies are hiding in Nesirie's realm to soothe/heal the pain inflicted on them by Shar in the first place. As a result, Shar's loyal bloods are outraged, reporting the berks turning stag.

Weird, indeed. What does Realmspace tell about Shar?
Just to cover all AD&D2 era sources, even not so great.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 14 May 2021 : 18:30:48
It doesn't matter how many worlds are retconned into Realmspace, that doesn't give Shar any reason to look elsewhere.

Really, the whole thing of making her multispheric *and* adding that she's actively working to destroy all these other worlds -- that just furthers the 3E/4E trend of making Shar a 2-dimensional comic book villain.

Before, she just wanted to return to the dark comfort she'd known at the beginning of Realmspace. Now, she's out to destroy everything, for reasons. Give her a mustache to twirl and her move to being a caricature is complete.

People complained that the Zhents had become the Keystone Kops, and WotC's reaction was to turn Shar to Snidely Whiplash.
sleyvas Posted - 14 May 2021 : 17:28:11
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar


I'll stand by liking the idea of Shar having multi-spheric conflict and that making sense to me (depending on the conflict), but her actually being a multi-spheric Power still doesn't feel quite right. There are plenty of gods with more justification for it than Shar, yet who remain confined to Realmspace/Toril.



Yeah, I don't mind her having a conflict with someone from another sphere, myself.

I just have an issue with someone who was previously just in a single sphere and wanted the destruction of everything in that sphere going out of her way to find other spheres, gain influence and power there, and then destroy them. Since her influence elsewhere doesn't impact anything in Realmspace, then there doesn't seem to be a reason for it -- other than making Shar another of those "Oh noes! This villain wants to destroy all of existence!" types.



Just an idea to throw out there. Abeir and Toril are two "separate places", both in realmspace. Technically, I'd bet Shar wants to see Abeir destroyed as well, even though she's not a "goddess" there. Then throw in that there might be OTHER worlds as well that we JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT. For instance, what EXACTLY did the Elven Sundering DO? Might we find that there's another "mirror world" that was created by it? After all, there was this non-magical version of Evermeet that appeared on Toril after the spellplague that likely had not existed in the feywild. Was that from Abeir or a 3rd world? What about what happened with the Imaskari raiding another world, etc... Did those gods finally come to Toril because "they heard the cries of their faithful after 1000+ years" OR were all their faithful on the world killed by the god "Anshar the Untheric god of darkness and the night" and their gods forced into manifestation form and they came to Toril to keep themselves alive (in other words, they lied, and the male god Anshar from Deities and Demigods is just an aspect of Shar which presents as male in that world)?
Wooly Rupert Posted - 14 May 2021 : 16:59:30
quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar


I'll stand by liking the idea of Shar having multi-spheric conflict and that making sense to me (depending on the conflict), but her actually being a multi-spheric Power still doesn't feel quite right. There are plenty of gods with more justification for it than Shar, yet who remain confined to Realmspace/Toril.



Yeah, I don't mind her having a conflict with someone from another sphere, myself.

I just have an issue with someone who was previously just in a single sphere and wanted the destruction of everything in that sphere going out of her way to find other spheres, gain influence and power there, and then destroy them. Since her influence elsewhere doesn't impact anything in Realmspace, then there doesn't seem to be a reason for it -- other than making Shar another of those "Oh noes! This villain wants to destroy all of existence!" types.
Eldacar Posted - 14 May 2021 : 14:16:37
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar


A brief dive into my available 2E books (On Hallowed Ground, among others) doesn't suggest that Shar is multispheric per se.

-The Erevis Cale books.


Ah. I haven't read those, then. I found the Shar-this, Mask-that, shadows-so-cooooool aspects of that particular era to be generally very uninteresting.

I'll stand by liking the idea of Shar having multi-spheric conflict and that making sense to me (depending on the conflict), but her actually being a multi-spheric Power still doesn't feel quite right. There are plenty of gods with more justification for it than Shar, yet who remain confined to Realmspace/Toril.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 14 May 2021 : 05:21:38
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar


A brief dive into my available 2E books (On Hallowed Ground, among others) doesn't suggest that Shar is multispheric per se.

-The Erevis Cale books.



Hence my complaint. Multiple sources fail to even hint at such, and then along comes a novel and boom, prior material is chucked out the window.
Lord Karsus Posted - 14 May 2021 : 04:53:00
quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar


A brief dive into my available 2E books (On Hallowed Ground, among others) doesn't suggest that Shar is multispheric per se.

-The Erevis Cale books.
Eldacar Posted - 13 May 2021 : 14:50:15
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

How do you foretell something that predates you?


-If I am recalling correctly, the books portrayed Mask and Shar as being multispheric entities. I did like the concept presented that Mask's appearance and activity marked the soon-arrival of Shar and the perpetration of the ultimate thief- all of existence (of that crystalsphere).



Honestly, Shar being multispheric is another thing that bugs me. For one thing, this is yet another of those things that just came out of nowhere. For another thing, I don't think it fits her character. She's been described as wanting to return to the nothingness that originally existed in Realmspace -- so why would she bother paying attention to anything beyond Realmspace?


quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus


-If I am recalling correctly, the books portrayed Mask and Shar as being multispheric entities.


A brief dive into my available 2E books (On Hallowed Ground, among others) doesn't suggest that Shar is multispheric per se.

It does, however, say there is Chant that some of Shar's proxies on the Wheel have discovered the worship of a Cerilian power, Nesirie the Lady of Mourning. And that because of it, some of Shar's proxies are hiding in Nesirie's realm to soothe/heal the pain inflicted on them by Shar in the first place. As a result, Shar's loyal bloods are outraged, reporting the berks turning stag. Shar is reportedly infuriated that Nesirie "dares to heal grief" (a foreign Power, at that), and is planning a way to destroy or subvert the Cerilian goddess.

So there may be some degree of multi-spheric conflict going on between Shar and other Powers outside Realmspace. Not Shar being a multi-spheric Power in her own right, just throwing a tantrum because some of her followers got thieved from her by a foreign goddess from a brand-new pantheon on the planar scene.

I, at least, could see why Nesirie would make Shar rage given the contrasting portfolios, alignments, and attitudes of the two deities.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 13 May 2021 : 04:17:29
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

How do you foretell something that predates you?


-If I am recalling correctly, the books portrayed Mask and Shar as being multispheric entities. I did like the concept presented that Mask's appearance and activity marked the soon-arrival of Shar and the perpetration of the ultimate thief- all of existence (of that crystalsphere).



Honestly, Shar being multispheric is another thing that bugs me. For one thing, this is yet another of those things that just came out of nowhere. For another thing, I don't think it fits her character. She's been described as wanting to return to the nothingness that originally existed in Realmspace -- so why would she bother paying attention to anything beyond Realmspace?
Lord Karsus Posted - 13 May 2021 : 01:01:08
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

How do you foretell something that predates you?


-If I am recalling correctly, the books portrayed Mask and Shar as being multispheric entities. I did like the concept presented that Mask's appearance and activity marked the soon-arrival of Shar and the perpetration of the ultimate thief- all of existence (of that crystalsphere).
Dalor Darden Posted - 11 May 2021 : 20:50:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

To me, Light is more important than darkness in the creation of Shadow. Mask only serves himself…being a “herald” could be as simple as meaning a foretelling of something…not a servant.



How do you foretell something that predates you?



His presence could simply Herald a rise in the power of Shar...

Sort of like a comet moving through our system that is younger than the asteroid following it might Herald a disaster impact.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 08 May 2021 : 14:42:28
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

To me, Light is more important than darkness in the creation of Shadow. Mask only serves himself…being a “herald” could be as simple as meaning a foretelling of something…not a servant.



How do you foretell something that predates you?
Dalor Darden Posted - 08 May 2021 : 05:20:00
To me, Light is more important than darkness in the creation of Shadow. Mask only serves himself…being a “herald” could be as simple as meaning a foretelling of something…not a servant.
Ayrik Posted - 08 May 2021 : 00:30:44
quote:
All of those still indicate a connection to Shar, though -- a connection that isn't even implied anywhere else.
quote:
In the 2E and 3E deity books, there is no mention of a connection between Shar and Mask. None at all. They were not allies and certainly not master/servant.

And there's no connection in the fiction, either, until it was suddenly relevant in the Erevis Cale books.

I think this sudden forced connection was part of the "shadowz and darkness are kewl, so moar Shar!" thing so prevalent in 3E/4E. I don't like it for that reason, and also because it is a retcon.

Your points are valid.

We all know the Realms contain plenty of arbitrarily shoehorned "this is kewl" contrivances. Before it was all about the Shadovar, it was all about Elves and Drow. After it was all about the Shadovar, it was all about the Dragonborn and the Tieflings. Or maybe Chosens, or Phaerimms, or Liches, or Mythals, or something.

But Shadows were the "kewl" thing for a little while, and Mask was (briefly) elevated to lofty and awesome status while he trailed behind Shar's lofty awesome dark glory ... almost as if he were her personal shadow. Mask's presence fell upon everything Shar's darkness touched. Mask's presence heralded Shar's darkness by falling upon things ahead of Shar's movements. Mask's shadows concealed things from Shar or Shar's enemies before her arrival as often as they revealed things to Shar or to Shar's enemies.

Doesn't have to make any more sense than, say, a Mystra suddenly deciding to shake the whole cosmos apart with her personal (and juvenile) hate-filled vendetta against a useless trickster god who never had anything to do with her divine station and portfolio.

Realmslore is full of flaws and oversights. The apparent sudden prominence of Mask and Shar is one of these problems ... but at least it's one "kewl" (and popular) enough to merit some effort towards explaining it with greater depth, context, and consistency.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 07 May 2021 : 20:32:26
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Erevis interpreted the term "Herald" as meaning "servant" - and Mask didn't comment or correct this understanding - but a "Herald" isn't necessarily some junior ensign or cornet, some flashy messenger or prosaic announcer who simply precedes the arrival of more important personages. A "Herald of Shar" could be a sovereign, an ambassador, a consort, an oracle - all sorts of things which do not hold lesser station to Shar.



All of those still indicate a connection to Shar, though -- a connection that isn't even implied anywhere else.
Ayrik Posted - 07 May 2021 : 19:08:51
Erevis interpreted the term "Herald" as meaning "servant" - and Mask didn't comment or correct this understanding - but a "Herald" isn't necessarily some junior ensign or cornet, some flashy messenger or prosaic announcer who simply precedes the arrival of more important personages. A "Herald of Shar" could be a sovereign, an ambassador, a consort, an oracle - all sorts of things which do not hold lesser station to Shar.

Mask had nothing to say about what "Herald of Shar" really meant. And it's never been explained or expanded in proper detail. The only evidence of the title was a remnant found on a destroyed world, itself destroyed shortly thereafter.
We assume "herald" indicates a servant's station simply because Erevis assumed/suggested it indicates a servant's station. Given Mask's relationship with Erevis - his taciturn, deceptive, opportunistic, manipulative, and self-serving interactions - it would be consistent for Mask to let Erevis believe whatever (mis)truths happen to be convenient.
TBeholder Posted - 05 May 2021 : 20:26:52
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

You could easily argue that a connection should have been there. I won't dispute that; it's an obvious one. My issue is that there wasn't a connection or a hint of a connection before, and then suddenly he's her servant and always has been. That's a retcon.

Indeed. Too obvious to omit unless there's nothing.
quote:
This is another reason I would say it was all Sharran propaganda.
[...] Shar has every reason to try to subsume Mask, and it's in character for her to try all sorts of shenanigans to gain power. A false claim about being his superior seems right up her alley.

Or just mortals randomly blundering about.
Much like that Cult of She-Spider double heresy, but this time on a path one of the deities involved may deem useful and the other may want to curb (and he happens to have the largest crowd of sneaky backstabbers among his followers).
sleyvas Posted - 05 May 2021 : 01:54:38
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

You could easily argue that a connection should have been there. I won't dispute that; it's an obvious one. My issue is that there wasn't a connection or a hint of a connection before, and then suddenly he's her servant and always has been. That's a retcon.

One especially has to question why, if Mask was a servant of Shar, was he allowed to become weakened by the Cyrinishad and then hunted by Kezef. If Mask was Shar's servant, weakening him weakens her -- and it's canon that Shar very jealously guarded her power. Weakening her servant also would impact her plans and potentially set them back.

This is another reason I would say it was all Sharran propaganda.

Though you could spin it a different way, I suppose. Maybe Shar had a servant on some other world, one that was her herald -- and Mask grabbed and subsumed that herald at some point. It doesn't put Mask under her, but it lets you do the "what I told you was true, from a certain point of view" thing. Too much of a stretch for me, though.

We know Shar has gobbled up other deities in the past. We know a couple times she failed, too. We also know of her pretending to be fallen powers. Shar has every reason to try to subsume Mask, and it's in character for her to try all sorts of shenanigans to gain power. A false claim about being his superior seems right up her alley.



Just playing devil's advocate here, so I'm going to try and come up with some reasons to answer your questions, and again.... I'm honestly forgetting "why" he was her servant and/or what he was doing in the novel. I seem to remember some name like Kesson Rel or something.

On there being no previous information on it... again, he might have not have wanted his clergy to know about the ties. He's not exactly the kind of deity that tells his priests everything... and they probably are more concerned with their next score/theft than they are about religious history (some of Faerun's clergy I see heavily interested in history... others, like Umberlee and Mask, are less interested in religious history than "trade history" ).

Why have him read the Cyrinishad? Well, let us not forget, Cyric ALSO became something LIKE a servant for her. She sent him off to kill Mystra in a grand intrigue AFTER he took the intrigue portfolio from Mask. So, she "decreased" one piece and used it to "increase" another piece that she was building up for a major power play.

Why have Kezef chasing him? It stops him from becoming a thorn in Cyric's side while she grooms him for the service she wants to send him on.

So, given the above, saying "weakening him weakens Shar" isn't necessarily true. Its just moving power where she needs it to be held, almost like swapping a pawn out and making it a more powerful piece (stressing on almost, as I know that isn't a perfect analogy).

Wooly Rupert Posted - 04 May 2021 : 18:32:34
You could easily argue that a connection should have been there. I won't dispute that; it's an obvious one. My issue is that there wasn't a connection or a hint of a connection before, and then suddenly he's her servant and always has been. That's a retcon.

One especially has to question why, if Mask was a servant of Shar, was he allowed to become weakened by the Cyrinishad and then hunted by Kezef. If Mask was Shar's servant, weakening him weakens her -- and it's canon that Shar very jealously guarded her power. Weakening her servant also would impact her plans and potentially set them back.

This is another reason I would say it was all Sharran propaganda.

Though you could spin it a different way, I suppose. Maybe Shar had a servant on some other world, one that was her herald -- and Mask grabbed and subsumed that herald at some point. It doesn't put Mask under her, but it lets you do the "what I told you was true, from a certain point of view" thing. Too much of a stretch for me, though.

We know Shar has gobbled up other deities in the past. We know a couple times she failed, too. We also know of her pretending to be fallen powers. Shar has every reason to try to subsume Mask, and it's in character for her to try all sorts of shenanigans to gain power. A false claim about being his superior seems right up her alley.

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