T O P I C R E V I E W |
Markustay |
Posted - 08 May 2012 : 21:13:09 Is this some sort of joke or prank?
I read it in THIS THREAD over on the WotC forums, but I haven't substantiated this guy's claim yet.
If its true...... WHAT THE HELL?!
EDIT: Substantiated |
30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
TBeholder |
Posted - 05 Jun 2012 : 09:59:35 quote: Originally posted by Diffan
Wait, so it's perfectly reasonable if he turns from male to female but apparnelty Drow is where people draw the line . I actually find the idea interesting and I wonder how he'll unite the Wizards of War as a Drow?
Why not female Drow then?
quote: Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Sounds like Ed's up to his crazy tricks again. This is certainly unexpected, and it could go neat places.
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
If it turns out that it's jumping the shark, we can comment on it after we see what it's like. Until then, I see little point in getting worked up about it. And be thankful it's Ed doing it.
To me, it looks more and more like Ed Greenwood's reaction on "we need to introduce Bear Lore and server shards into FR!" was something like "Heh-heh-heh. I'll show these amateur jesters how masters do it"... Remember "spin-a-yarn" series? Step one: take the worst, recite or at least mention it. Step two: make it look as ludicrously paltry in comparison as it essentially is by making up something twisted into crazy awesomeness.
quote: Originally posted by Bakra
I find it all amusing. Especially the bit about Manshoon hunting down Elminster clones.
That, too.
quote: Originally posted by Markustay
Whats next for 6e, and Everisminster Drowcale?
Yup. FR still got too many characters to count on fingers. And there's craving of more Gimmicks to throw in. And, consequently, fun to be had on this subject. (looks at Dragon Recent Issues) ...sharp pauldrons, Popeye the Thri-Kreen, tendrildragon, fluo-fog, boobmail, two overlong running swords, plump elfess with donkey ear indulging in provocative marketing. Also, black-clothed ninjazz in a desert... so it's only a matter of time when they'll run into pirates. So... either the archvillain or Elminster or Elminster's sidekick will: be a koboldragon, have hentacles, eat spinash and sit on a mountain of fluo-refuse. Oh, wait. I forgot the sword spider, Drowminster's animal companion.
quote: Originally posted by Markustay
I really hope all of this craziness isn't seriously being considered.
"It cannot refrain from making the attack to avoid harming itself"(c) |
Dennis |
Posted - 31 May 2012 : 04:56:21 quote: Originally posted by jerrod
Is it really so far fetched for elminster to portrait a drow?
Not really. Except that all roads these days tend to lead to the...drow. |
Markustay |
Posted - 27 May 2012 : 17:13:13 My initial knee-jerk reaction to this (and subsequent posting of this thread) had nothing to do with Elminster being a drow, but rather, why.
I have no problem with him being anything. In fact, in anther life, he may have been Poppa Smurf.
I just didn't care for what I thought - at the time - was an attempt to commercialize a beloved character (even more so then he already has). I am much more hopeful at this point, and actually regret my initial reaction (and this thread... but I will let it stand, because others will indeed have questions moving forward). |
jerrod |
Posted - 27 May 2012 : 04:05:57 Is it really so far fetched for elminster to portrait a drow? He has train drow apprentices,battled them,and had a hand in the making of the first drow of the underdark sourcebook! And remember drow can become as powerful as human wizards.(remember humans were limited to 9th level spells after netheril,but elves weren't.....) |
Dennis |
Posted - 27 May 2012 : 03:06:19 quote: Originally posted by Markustay
Elminster is always in Hell - the only thing that changes is the geography.
Not only El. Almost all immortals have their personal hells. It's one of the prices they have to pay. |
jerrod |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 04:05:31 66hp...looks like someone needs to update their info on lolth..lol |
Lady Shadowflame |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 15:03:19 Well, if you've got to body-hop, you might as well land yourself in a youthful, powerful body from a race of psychos whose eugenics/beauty obsession will make it likely you'll get a hot one...
Nine out of ten body-stealers agree: once you go elf, humanity goes on the shelf. |
Markustay |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 03:52:52 Elminster is always in Hell - the only thing that changes is the geography. |
Sightless |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 02:23:15 quote: Originally posted by Tamsar
I don't get what the big deal about Lolth is, I mean she only has 66 hit points :) Anyway, at the moment Elminster seems to be getting through bodies at a rather alarming rate, the last one he got didn't exactly last too long did it?
Well... Now... that's an interesting statement. So, things haven't been exactly going his way since his little love trip to hell. |
Tamsar |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 00:00:29 I don't get what the big deal about Lolth is, I mean she only has 66 hit points :) Anyway, at the moment Elminster seems to be getting through bodies at a rather alarming rate, the last one he got didn't exactly last too long did it? |
Sightless |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 20:26:17 Sometimes, the vary crafty can move someone where they want them to be, while appearing to be there enemy. He is a saige after all.
If he lets the right information slip into the right hands, at the right time, in the right way, the drow may never suspect.
|
Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 20:21:30 Myself, I wouldn’t go so far as to say with confidence that we know Ed had the idea first.
It’s certainly possible, but for me there isn’t good reason to conclude WotC ran with an idea of Ed’s, because nobody who can speak with any authority on the subject has come forward and said, “Yeah, we saw what Ed was doing and expanded on it.”
It’s just as possible someone at WotC came up with the whole Rise of the Underdark thing on their own. I’m willing to bet Ed was wrapping up the final draft of Elminster Enraged before WotC was getting down to work on Rise of the Underdark.
Not saying you’re wrong, Markus. In fact I hope you’re right. WotC should mine Ed for as many good ideas as they can.
I’m more concerned with Ed’s initial idea(s) for raising up Mystra, if any, being sidelined in favor of a set of ideas someone at WotC came up with later. I say this because we have past examples of times when authors get partway or even all the way done with a novel, only to have it shelved or sidelined because of a shift/change in strategy on WotC’s part.
For now I see Rise and the culmination of Ed’s latest trilogy as two things happening in parallel. I hope Ed gets to continue with his future plans for Mystra, whatever they may be. |
Markustay |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 19:52:11 Note I said 'Mystra' - I used the double-hyphens for a reason.
We, too, should "be careful what we wish for".
Like I said, I think this could really turn out well, and cover (fix) a few different lore-gaffs in the process. I had more here, but I'm hesitant to accidentally reveal spoilers (if I'm right).
Either way, Ed having the idea FIRST, and WotC running with it changes things quite a bit - I no longer think of it as a 'stunt' (at least not initially, until someone saw the crossover potential).
I regret my initial knee-jerk reaction; I should have learned by now to trust Ed's judgement.
EDIT: BTW, I don't blame him for the negative responses to this - they need someone who knows how to write decent copy for those back-cover blurbs...
"Both he and his goddess betrayed by the only one that could help them, the Old Mage of Shadowdale finds himself taking the form of that which Faerun fears most... but also what it desperately needs in it's darkest hour. To save the Realms, Elminster must not only know his enemy, he must become one of them..."
See what I did there? Big difference between tantalizing potential buyers, and writing a 'Cliffs Notes' edition of the book itself. Sometimes revealing less does MORE. |
Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 18:42:42 If things go the way you’re suggesting, Markus, I hope Mystra manages to use all the artifacts collected by Lloth (and Shar and possibly Asmodeus or whomever else amongst the deities wants to control all magic) as a means of drawing Lloth’s divine power into herself.
That could be one way Mystra reboots her power and it could serve to make her into a properly neutral deity of magic.
It might diminish those other deities too and (hopefully) make them settle down and get back into the background where they belong.
|
Irennan |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 17:51:21 I get your point. Well, even though trying to out outright betray Lolth would probably lead to a failure, it'd still be funny to see her somehow deceived or fooled, possibly in a subtle way.
I just find it amusing to see ''big baddies'' beaten at their own games, especially if it happens in a theatrical and stylish way. |
Markustay |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 17:40:37 I think it'll be more of a "be careful what you wish for" situation, then an overt backstabbing. Elmister's too clever to try out-drowing the goddess of drow. I think he just knows more about the final outcome then he will let on.
I also think he would make a good candidate for "the Prince of Lies", except he is smarter - he knows how to spin the truth. Its never about what you say, but rather, how you say it. El's got a thousand years of out-smarting wiley political-types - no small feat. If anyone is an epic BS-er, its him.
So anyway, I think Elminster would honor any deal made to the letter, but that just makes him more like a devil... and devil's always outsmart demons one-on-one. |
Irennan |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 17:29:09 Heh, it'd be hilarious to see Elminster backstabbing Lolth... |
Markustay |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 17:00:52 I think I see how this is going t turn out (or, at least, the way it should turn out). I think the stories between RotU and Elminster-goes-Drow SHOULD be connected - its the only way this will be any good, IMHO.
I think Ed had a (great) idea about how to restore The Weave. I think he also has some notions about 'Mytsra', but I won't say more because if I am right I will be spoiling a great ending to an epic yarn.
Keep in-mind neither 'Mystra' nor her Weave has been 'whole' since the Fall of Netheril - she used to control BOTH aspects of magic, and she used to be a helluva lot more neutral.
I think what Elminster wants and what Lolth wants (and what Shar wants) aren't all that different - two very different beings can be working together - perhaps unknowingly - toward a mutual goal. Its just the final outcome that they all want to come out differently.
If you need an ally against Shar, who better then someone in her league? Elminster being a drow just means the Old Mage is much smarter then we gave him credit for.
And he's certainly not beyond a good backstabbing or two. |
Thauranil |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 12:48:36 quote: Originally posted by Irennan
quote: Still ol Drizzt has been running around and being heroic for more than a century now so they should be willing to accept the possibility that it might be another goodly "drow".
Drizzt has never been the only one. However I think it'll be hard for the War Wizards to buy the ''drow can be goodly'' thing while they are wreaking havoc across the land. The Wizards could think Elminster as a spy/deceiver or something, not knowing who he actually is (after all, he is going to inhabit a drow body so it'll be hard for them to use things like true vision to understand who this drow is). We'll see.
I did,nt mean to imply that he was but he is by far the most famous though. As for your second point that is certainly something El will have to contend with though frankly its not like the War Wizards ever liked or trusted him much anyway. should be entertaining to watch though ehh |
Irennan |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 12:07:39 quote: Still ol Drizzt has been running around and being heroic for more than a century now so they should be willing to accept the possibility that it might be another goodly "drow".
Drizzt has never been the only one. However I think it'll be hard for the War Wizards to buy the ''drow can be goodly'' thing while they are wreaking havoc across the land. The Wizards could think Elminster as a spy/deceiver or something, not knowing who he actually is (after all, he is going to inhabit a drow body so it'll be hard for them to use things like true vision to understand who this drow is). We'll see. |
Thauranil |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 11:02:40 quote: Originally posted by Irennan
quote: Originally posted by Thauranil
Frankly I think it make sense for Elminsiter to become a drow as Lolth is the greatest threat to the resurrection of Mystra right now and truth be told I ll had enough of the goddess of Magic getting killed already so hopefully Lolth will fail miserably.
Well, according to what THO wrote, Ed didn't know about the Rise of the Underdark when he came up with the idea. So I doubt that there will be a consistent relation between these two things, if any.
However, personally, the only reason I see for Elminster turning into a drow (at least in relation to this new RSE) is that he could have a better chance to get direct insight about Lolth's new plan in his new form.
I'm wondering how this could help him in rallying the War Wizards though...
Yeah but surely Ed will work this new info into his next novel, I think it would help make it more interesting. As for rallying the war wizards well... awkward. Still ol Drizzt has been running around and being heroic for more than a century now so they should be willing to accept the possibility that it might be another goodly "drow". |
Irennan |
Posted - 14 May 2012 : 13:50:57
quote: Originally posted by Thauranil
Frankly I think it make sense for Elminsiter to become a drow as Lolth is the greatest threat to the resurrection of Mystra right now and truth be told I ll had enough of the goddess of Magic getting killed already so hopefully Lolth will fail miserably.
Well, according to what THO wrote, Ed didn't know about the Rise of the Underdark when he came up with the idea. So I doubt that there will be a consistent relation between these two things, if any.
However, personally, the only reason I see for Elminster turning into a drow (at least in relation to this new RSE) is that he could have a better chance to get direct insight about Lolth's new plan in his new form.
I'm wondering how this could help him in rallying the War Wizards though... |
Thauranil |
Posted - 14 May 2012 : 13:35:15 Frankly I think it make sense for Elminsiter to become a drow as Lolth is the greatest threat to the resurrection of Mystra right now and truth be told I ll had enough of the goddess of Magic getting killed already so hopefully Lolth will fail miserably. |
Lord Karsus |
Posted - 14 May 2012 : 01:58:43 -Given how often the deity of magic is targeted for attack, hurt, killed, and everything else, it's not really all it's cracked up to be. Plus, with all of the constraints put on the mantle, it's akin to what Genie says in Alladin regarding his situation. |
Irennan |
Posted - 14 May 2012 : 01:50:05 Because not every god(dess) can be the deity of magic.
Some deities, because of what they represent, could have more affinity than others with the ways of shaping raw energies into a more organic and less destructive system, into something that makes it easier to harness the power of magic. |
Sightless |
Posted - 13 May 2012 : 22:39:58 In of itself, nothing that I know of. Some folks think that the drow are getting to much attention. I can't say much on that, as I don't know.
The thrust of the issue, originally, was that some people were unhappy with Elmenster becoming a drow, and some with the idea that Lolth trying to take control of the weave. To be honest, I'm suprised more aren't trying to do the same, Imean why isn't Bane taking steps to secure it as well? |
Calmar |
Posted - 13 May 2012 : 22:34:42 What's the matter with Rise of the Underdark? |
Sightless |
Posted - 12 May 2012 : 19:02:24 quote: Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote: Originally posted by Sightless
Are the Drow over used, after a fashion, but to my knowledge this is the first time Mr. Greenwood has given them serious attention; perhaps his attention will greatly improve both upon their treatment, and how other authors deal with them in the future.
Actually, the first drow sourcebook we have was written by Ed -- the original, 2E, FR-specific The Drow of the Underdark. It's an earlier 2E source.
Corrected then, hence to my knowledge, but in either case, perhaps he see's them in need of an overhall.
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Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 May 2012 : 15:30:48 quote: Originally posted by Sightless
Are the Drow over used, after a fashion, but to my knowledge this is the first time Mr. Greenwood has given them serious attention; perhaps his attention will greatly improve both upon their treatment, and how other authors deal with them in the future.
Actually, the first drow sourcebook we have was written by Ed -- the original, 2E, FR-specific The Drow of the Underdark. It's an earlier 2E source. |
Markustay |
Posted - 12 May 2012 : 05:40:42 Many elven cultures - mostly notably Sylvan elves - are NOT monogamous. Deities certainly don't have to be.
I think monogamy might be something (Eladrin) elves picked-up from humans, and in the Realms it isn't even expected amongst them, either. I suppose it's an out-growth of advanced culture (beyond the tribal level). Marriage was (in both game and RW) something that came about amongst nobility and other wealthy folk to remove questions of inheritance - 'poor folk' only started practicing it relatively recently. |
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