| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 06:29:01
What do you think Mulhorand would be like if, hypothetically, the Pharoah was taken down and an evil dark Pharoah set up in his place? Assuming that the Dark Pharoah (Seti perhaps?) would at least control Sultim and some of Mulhorand.
In my own campaign I am planning on having the adventurers go to a Mulhorand that is split in two. Most of the Egyptian Gods for whatever reason being barred from the realms during my own spellplague events (Only Set, Anhur, Hathor, Sharess/Bastet and Geb remaining.) The Dark Pharoah ruling Sultim and having nominal control over southern Mulhorand. Then a Pharoah appointed by Anhur ruling from Sultim.
I picture even more of the population being slaves, and slaves being treated very poorly (Unlike presumably lawful good priests slaves would have been treated) Also that the priests of Set produce "Black Lotus" and refine it, and much of the ruling nobles are now addicted to it to control them.
Specifically things like:
- What special servants would followers of Set have? (Giant Scorpions, werejackels, Rakshasas, etc. ?)
- How would life be like? Would he have to confine people to the cities and forcefully make them work? (He being the Pharoah)
- What would Set want with his new kingdom once it was actually his? Would the Dark Pharoah be a proxy of his or just someone appointed? |
| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Icelander |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 04:35:26
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Could you try to discuss the topic?
What I think Mulhorand would be like if it was split into two polities?
Yes, I certainly could. I think that the nature of each polity depends heavily on their relations to their neighbours, their strategic goals, their economic reality and the current events on the Sea of Fallen Stars.
Nothing exists in a vaccuum. No man is an island. Et cetera, ad nauseaum. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 04:31:46
Could you try to discuss the topic? |
| Icelander |
Posted - 17 Nov 2011 : 19:45:11
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I think in history there are examples of nations that do not externally trade.
Not that i'm on expert on economic history but weren't Korea and Japan "hermits" for long periods of time? They weren't as prosperous or advanced, but they still existed :S.
Japan and Korea still traded with each other and with other Asian nations. They just didn't trade with Europe.
Even so, this caused the rest of the world to quickly pass them by in economic development, leaving them backward and poor.
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Both halves of Mulhorand have access to the Sea of Fallen stars which leads to a huge area for easy trade.
From Mulhorand, you would have extreme difficulty trading with anyone over the Sea of Fallen Stars if Unther and Thay didn't let you. For Skuld, situated as it is, the access is even worse. Sultim can effectively prevent them from trading with Thay and that leaves them with hugging the Untheri coast, which they can only do if Unther lets them.
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
But trade/commerce isn't something I like to focus on, things written in the realms talk about it a lot but I don't see how it relates to the fantasy aspect of roleplaying. In seeing an imaginary system as a working universe it is interesting to contemplate, but if you look there are logical problems everywhere.
Economic realities and trade limitations lead to conflict, conflict is what stories run on.
Smugglers and blockade runners are classic adventurers, in fantasy as well as elsewhere. Gone with the Wind, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and countless more. Commerce raiders, pirates and privateers are also standard adventure fare; witness Captain Blood, Treasure Island, Pirates of the Carribean, etc. ad nauseam. Even peaceful traders or settlers moving capital to new areas have provided the inspiration for stories ranging from Wagon Train to Star Trek (sold to the network as Wagon Train to the Stars) to Firefly.
Without understanding of where trade in the area is flowing, I don't see how anyone could write an adveture set in as anything but a dungeon crawl. Even then, how do you know what treasures are to be found if you don't know what's being bought and sold in the area? |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 17 Nov 2011 : 19:31:18
I think in history there are examples of nations that do not externally trade.
Not that i'm on expert on economic history but weren't Korea and Japan "hermits" for long periods of time? They weren't as prosperous or advanced, but they still existed :S.
Both halves of Mulhorand have access to the Sea of Fallen stars which leads to a huge area for easy trade. But trade/commerce isn't something I like to focus on, things written in the realms talk about it a lot but I don't see how it relates to the fantasy aspect of roleplaying. In seeing an imaginary system as a working universe it is interesting to contemplate, but if you look there are logical problems everywhere. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 17 Nov 2011 : 08:51:21
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
No I meant:
Sultim = Anhurite Pharoah (ruling from the border of Thay to Rauthgil, allied with Murghom and Semphar but not controlling them)
Skuld = Set (Controlling Skuld in a coup but not really having complete control over the rest of Mulhorand, which has split up into city states. Nelderild and Gheldaneth would not be powerful enough to defeat the evil pharoah and have to make a show of some level of obedience, but they would also nominally be independent themeselves.)
I don't think the Set Pharoah would get along any better with Thay than a good Pharoah. He'd still consider Thay an upstart province, in my opinion/imagination.
That makes eminent sense.
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I don't agree that each half couldn't sustain an existence, each portion would still be the size of a country :S Mulhorand is very large. Each is certainly as large as Aglorand, and the realms has many examples of city states.
City states or nation states cannot survive for long without trade. My point was that unless some of the neighbours traded with each political entity, it would regress down to a level of economic development which could be sustained by trade among the internal population.
In our world, Egypt only attained Bronze Age civilisation once it begun trade with foreign powers, including ones as distant as modern Greece. As for maintaining the equivalent of an advanced medieval civilisation without international trade... simply impossible. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 17 Nov 2011 : 08:17:58
No I meant:
Sultim = Anhurite Pharoah (ruling from the border of Thay to Rauthgil, allied with Murghom and Semphar but not controlling them)
Skuld = Set (Controlling Skuld in a coup but not really having complete control over the rest of Mulhorand, which has split up into city states. Nelderild and Gheldaneth would not be powerful enough to defeat the evil pharoah and have to make a show of some level of obedience, but they would also nominally be independent themeselves.)
I don't think the Set Pharoah would get along any better with Thay than a good Pharoah. He'd still consider Thay an upstart province, in my opinion/imagination.
I don't agree that each half couldn't sustain an existence, each portion would still be the size of a country :S Mulhorand is very large. Each is certainly as large as Aglorand, and the realms has many examples of city states. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 16 Nov 2011 : 19:29:54
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
What do you think Mulhorand would be like if, hypothetically, the Pharoah was taken down and an evil dark Pharoah set up in his place? Assuming that the Dark Pharoah (Seti perhaps?) would at least control Sultim and some of Mulhorand.
In my own campaign I am planning on having the adventurers go to a Mulhorand that is split in two. Most of the Egyptian Gods for whatever reason being barred from the realms during my own spellplague events (Only Set, Anhur, Hathor, Sharess/Bastet and Geb remaining.) The Dark Pharoah ruling Sultim and having nominal control over southern Mulhorand. Then a Pharoah appointed by Anhur ruling from Sultim.
I presume the two Pharoahs are not meant to rule the same fortress city?
Is the Anhurite Pharoah in the north, ruling from Sultim, which is historically the centre of that faith? Or is the Setite Pharoah ensconsed there, close to Thay?
Note that the centre of the Setite faith in Mulhorand was in Sampranasz and that the largest number of the secret cultists are likely to have lived in large cities like Skuld, Gheldaneth and Neldorild. Sultim, as an armed camp against the might of Thay and under constant siege by sahuagin, is not likely to have been a fertile ground for decadent conspirators (nor a comfortable home for such).
In either case, your divided Mulhorand will be shaped very much by the relations each side has with any neighbours it has. In the Realms I'm familiar with, those include Thay, Unther, the Wizard Reach (Thayvian-influenced), Threskel (Chessentan-influenced), Murghom (nominally ruled by Mulhorand, at least while it was strong), Semphar (ditto, but functionally independent) and the Shining Lands.
Neither half of a divided Mulhorand could sustain much more than a primative and uncomfortable existence without extensive contact and trade with some of these neighbours. Either could ally with some of them against the other. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 16:17:56
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
What do you think Mulhorand would be like if, hypothetically, the Pharoah was taken down and an evil dark Pharoah set up in his place? Assuming that the Dark Pharoah (Seti perhaps?) would at least control Sultim and some of Mulhorand.
In my own campaign I am planning on having the adventurers go to a Mulhorand that is split in two. Most of the Egyptian Gods for whatever reason being barred from the realms during my own spellplague events (Only Set, Anhur, Hathor, Sharess/Bastet and Geb remaining.) The Dark Pharoah ruling Sultim and having nominal control over southern Mulhorand. Then a Pharoah appointed by Anhur ruling from Sultim.
I picture even more of the population being slaves, and slaves being treated very poorly (Unlike presumably lawful good priests slaves would have been treated) Also that the priests of Set produce "Black Lotus" and refine it, and much of the ruling nobles are now addicted to it to control them.
Specifically things like:
- What special servants would followers of Set have? (Giant Scorpions, werejackels, Rakshasas, etc. ?)
- How would life be like? Would he have to confine people to the cities and forcefully make them work? (He being the Pharoah)
- What would Set want with his new kingdom once it was actually his? Would the Dark Pharoah be a proxy of his or just someone appointed?
As the other person mentioned, Stygia comes to mind. What if that sect of Set worshippers wasn't just Mulan's though. Having Yuan-Ti and other reptilians that may have joined with Set's worshippers to become the ruling class could prove interesting. Also, as you say, Rakshasa's. Perhaps most of the remaining humans are slaves, with only Set loyalists with magical power at the top (mages, priests, mage-priests, warlocks, maybe binders, dread necromancers, etc....) and then a middle class composed of those who help physically rule (warriors / rogues). Very much like Thay, but less arcane stringent, and less racially guided. |
| Quale |
Posted - 04 Nov 2011 : 07:27:47
It would be like Stygia (Howard's, not the plane), something similar to Thay, only replace the Red Wizards with a ruling priest class. There were minions of Set one Dragon Magazine, Dragon 313 I think, plus nocturnal desert creatures and were-jackals-donkeys-serpents-vultures-antbears... |
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