| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 12 Mar 2010 : 19:58:12
Something from another scroll got me fired up I guess. I cant remmeber the last time I was demonstrably negative of 4e here....but I read stuff in many scrolls everyday....and man people just dont like to be disagreed with...on either side of that arguement....
Man...it just wears me out....my mind is a shambles right now.
I am thinking back just 3 years ago or less, we discussed any and everything. No flames, no threats of locking down a scroll, just good debate. Thats not the case now. Seems many scribes (on either side of many various arguements) are quick to call foul and flag down a moderator and they put the hammer down. (What choice do they have, once called in they have to use their best judgement to serve the site and it's members) What happened to debate? Open and free? I see alot of stuff everyday that irks me...or lights a small fire under me....I ignore it, post as if it was not there or move on. Why take great offense and ruin the debate for all. I think we are all guilty of taking the 4e v.s 3e vs. blah blah blah....to personally. Not to mention other scribes opinions on them. I dont think the moderators have done anything other then what they must, but I think discussion here has been stiffled. When was the last time I looged on and saw more than 4 active users?? I remember 18-20 with many more Lurkers....I know of 8 or 9 users who were regular contributors, now either lurk or never come here at all. I know some are on pins and needles not wanting to tick of wotc....but this site needs different opinions....if we all agree on everything, the realms would be a sad static place wouldn't it?
And I will end this post with mine from the other scroll::
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Why don't we start a discussion about things that we *want* rather than turn threads like this into a discussion of how we *don't want* what's available?
Cheers
Very well said Erik. I myself am tired of hearing a 4E rant on every other thread.
I think you are seriously over-estimating the amount of 4E rants on the forums. This thread has been the only place I've seen a 4E rant in MONTHS, mostly due to the efforts of the Sage and the Space Hamster.
Ok i'll be clearer then. I hear one on every other thread that I look at and sometimes its not usually a rant, but a side negative comment about 4E that pops in too frequently.
And on topic, I like the idea of a traffic cop to make sure there are no inconsistencies in regards to the stories surrounding the spellplague.
Much like a negative comment about pre 4e or people who dont agree with 4e pops up in about every thread.
Some time ya just gotta ignore the little stuff. This heavy handed thought policing is in my opinion what is killing this forum. Has anyone noticed how rare it now is to see more than 3 or 4 active members logged in? i have seen so many scribes chastised for one or two negative comments , then about the second time it happens...they are gone.
I am not asking anyone to take abuse...but sometime discretion is the better part of valor and you have to live and let live. If you see comment you think is a bit to far, just dont fan the flames...it usually the reaction to something that blows up into a fireball.
I love this place.....but I fear it cannot take many more hits before it is unrecognizable when compared to just even 2 years ago.
Back on to the topic.....
How does the spellplague work?
it is impossible to debate that fairly without letting some scribe(s) express how it does not work for them. This can be taken negative and blown up...but it is really an invitation to explain how it does work for you.....and above all it is allright if we disagree.
Sorry for rambling.....thanks for reading...I think I am going on hiatus and remeber how good the discourse here used to be when ideas were exchanged and no topic was off limits to our powerful curiousity and love of the realms.....
Maybe I should have read this another 5 times before posting it...but the frst 5 havent cooled my thoughts so I might as well let loose the shaft, less my arm tire and it looses itself!
* off to enjoy my well earned Hiatus, and maybe read some Ed or Elaine! |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dark Wizard |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 03:52:04
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
I'm still shocked by the poor quality of the Dragonlance animated movie, everything from the choppy, poorly drawn, and inconsistently styled animation, to the mismatch CGI dragons, to the odd choices for adaptation. It seemed like they were doing too much with far too little budget and time.
Besides all that, though, I did applaud some of the casting for voice actors of certain characters.
I agree. It shows what could have been if the entire project was given as much attention as the voice casting had been. However, my initial impression was that a few of the voice felt phoned in for the paycheck. It might have been the direction and poor syncing on the animator's part. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 02:34:05
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
I'm still shocked by the poor quality of the Dragonlance animated movie, everything from the choppy, poorly drawn, and inconsistently styled animation, to the mismatch CGI dragons, to the odd choices for adaptation. It seemed like they were doing too much with far too little budget and time.
Besides all that, though, I did applaud some of the casting for voice actors of certain characters. |
| Dark Wizard |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 02:16:05
Novelty hasn't been a dominating aspect of mainstream culture for a while now, what with all the nostalgia properties and remakes being exploited in big budget movies and games. With the proper marketing D&D's progenitor status could even be used to promote the brand. The D&D property also has many copyrighted aspects that other franchises haven't touched on.
One difficulty to overcome is quality. The Infinity engine games are still legendary amongst CRPG fans old enough to have played them. The NWN games have maintained some visibility for D&D on the video/computer gaming arena. Many players and fans note how the CRPGs got them into D&D in the first place.
However, many other D&D based games have come and gone, barely making a splash in an already crowded market. Though the same is true of other big media franchises. D&D style fantasy is a dime a dozen, but few make a big impression.
Edit: I did find the second D&D movie watchable. It was decent for a low budget TV movie shown on the SyFy channel. It seemed like the crew made a decent attempt to channel D&D-ness into the movie. I could do without Damodar again.
I'm still shocked by the poor quality of the Dragonlance animated movie, everything from the choppy, poorly drawn, and inconsistently styled animation, to the mismatch CGI dragons, to the odd choices for adaptation. It seemed like they were doing too much with far too little budget and time. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 01:30:43
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
I still find myself bewildered Hasbro hasn't used the various materials and licenses under the D&D banner, including iconic monsters, characters, settings, and troupes for non-PnP purposes.
The absorption of D&D ideas, images and assumptions into 'mainstream culture' -- big-money films and video games -- has made turning that content into money more problematic now it doesn't have the novelty it did 25 years ago. This is presumably a factor in Wizards' attempts to 'update' the D&D imagery, at the risk that accommodating it to cultural trends erodes what's distinctly valuable about it.
Here's a relevant article about Games Workshop's business. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 12:21:42
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
I'd say that when you look at how they behaved in the D&D movie "Big Trouble..." is still the only movie to have a beholder in it.
Didn't see that movie...I do remember the guys in the D&D movie (while it was just my brother and I in the theater watching it) being scared of the beholder. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 09:16:43
I'd say that when you look at how they behaved in the D&D movie "Big Trouble..." is still the only movie to have a beholder in it. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 04:48:54
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
For what it's worth, I rather enjoyed the second D&D movie. The fact that it was a SciFi movie and still better than the original shows just how bad the first one was. Pretty much nothing good came from the original movie except the dwarf. I sorta liked his style. Other than that, blech! And as for video games, there was also the D&D: Heroes that I had for X-Box which was pretty enjoyable as well as the two Baldur's Gate games for the same consol. Too bad, I can't get a copy of the sequal, which generally sells for $50+ on Amazon.com :( .
Two things on the dwarf:
1) He's Jerry's Uncle Leo from Seinfeld.
2) The ONLY scene in the movie where they say his name was edited out.
If you get a change, rent the DVD of the first move with the special features. You'll see that a LOT got chopped to the editing room floor, including:
A) A scene where Ridley and Marina got "sucked in" to the map they had, discovering a pocket dimension with a genie and a riddle.
B) The reason Ridley was against Magic-users was because his father was an Artificer type that got his livelihood taken away for creating a magical horse-less carriage, but since he was a "registered wizard", the council of mages came down on him.
C) Theories that Snails was half-elven (reason he wore the hat that covered his ears).
Still, the movie flopped, but I give it props for trying. Heck, name any other movie (besides Big Trouble in Little China) that has a Beholder in it? |
| Diffan |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 03:38:45
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
I still find myself bewildered Hasbro hasn't used the various materials and licenses under the D&D banner, including iconic monsters, characters, settings, and troupes for non-PnP purposes. The D&D brand is a cultural icon and being 'geek' is in vogue more than it has ever been.
I totally agree with you. They really need to expand on their base and what they can associate with D&D.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
We had a few video games and a pair of derided movies. I really expected many more video games at the least and not just RPGs. I thought Hasbro would push for more games like Demonstone that tap into the mainstream video gaming market with the more action oriented style.
For what it's worth, I rather enjoyed the second D&D movie. The fact that it was a SciFi movie and still better than the original shows just how bad the first one was. Pretty much nothing good came from the original movie except the dwarf. I sorta liked his style. Other than that, blech! And as for video games, there was also the D&D: Heroes that I had for X-Box which was pretty enjoyable as well as the two Baldur's Gate games for the same consol. Too bad, I can't get a copy of the sequal, which generally sells for $50+ on Amazon.com :( .
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
I expected a new cartoon show by now at the least, something that's basically a half hour commercial for the D&D brand. Hasbro has the capability and connections to make it happen given their toy line franchises. I thought Hasbro would have seen D&D less as solely a pen and paper franchise with a limited fan-base but as a brand generator. They would make money on the entertainment side of D&D leaving the RPG portion as a quaint legacy aspect of the greater D&D brand.
Yea, I'd love to see a D&D cartoon or animated series akin to Star Wars: Clone Wars or Avatar: The Last Airbender artistic wise. But don't get me started on the Dragonlance animated movie.....it was bad.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
We've seen the same with comic books. The actual publications are not a very profitable portion of the franchise, but they've created well known characters and stories which have entered the collective pop culture consciousness. These iconic characters and troupes are exploited constantly in an endless stream of video games, movies, tv shows, books, board games, action figures and other merchandising.
Well there were the Drizzt comics that came out from Devil's Due along with the Dragonlance comics from the same name. And comics form a good story-board to jump start movies.
All in all, while Hasbro has dropped the ball in expanding the franchise, I think they need more time to fully realize the potential. And we can only hope, pray, and talk with our wallets and voices. |
| Dark Wizard |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 02:27:33
I still find myself bewildered Hasbro hasn't used the various materials and licenses under the D&D banner, including iconic monsters, characters, settings, and troupes for non-PnP purposes. The D&D brand is a cultural icon and being 'geek' is in vogue more than it has ever been.
We had a few video games and a pair of derided movies. I really expected many more video games at the least and not just RPGs. I thought Hasbro would push for more games like Demonstone that tap into the mainstream video gaming market with the more action oriented style.
I expected a new cartoon show by now at the least, something that's basically a half hour commercial for the D&D brand. Hasbro has the capability and connections to make it happen given their toy line franchises. I thought Hasbro would have seen D&D less as solely a pen and paper franchise with a limited fan-base but as a brand generator. They would make money on the entertainment side of D&D leaving the RPG portion as a quaint legacy aspect of the greater D&D brand.
We've seen the same with comic books. The actual publications are not a very profitable portion of the franchise, but they've created well known characters and stories which have entered the collective pop culture consciousness. These iconic characters and troupes are exploited constantly in an endless stream of video games, movies, tv shows, books, board games, action figures and other merchandising. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 17 Jun 2010 : 20:41:46
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
They are clueless when it comes to these niche genres - they think you can sell everything with TV adds, and D&D doesn't work that way - it takes groups of friends and social interaction.
I think it takes both, if you need to meet Hasbro levels of profitability, and they haven't done well at either. When D&D came under Hasbro, the big upside was the prospect that for the first time since the mid-1980s it would be adequately advertised on TV and elsewhere. Public awareness of the name 'Dungeons & Dragons' is high, but knowledge of what RPGs are is low. It's exactly Hasbro's unwillingness to risk that attempt to expand the player base, combined with the high profit demand, that mandated the model we've got of selling many rules supplements targeted at an insular, static or declining market till saturation, declining returns and edition reset, along with, in the latest cycle, downplaying of settings with the narrowing of focus to the perceived single largest group. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 17 Jun 2010 : 15:42:53
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
One of my best buds is an IP lawyer and active member on my site if you want to ask any questions. Several articles have already been put up by him regarding IP and gaming.
http://www.loremaster.org/content/77-copyright-law-gamer-part-i-criminal-liability.html
http://www.loremaster.org/content/79-copyright-law-gamer-part-ii-civil-liability.html
Thanks for supplying this info for us Matt. I checked it out as much as I could on my iPhone (your site is blocked for me at work which is a shame). I suggest others read it as well. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 10 Jun 2010 : 00:03:46
One of my best buds is an IP lawyer and active member on my site if you want to ask any questions. Several articles have already been put up by him regarding IP and gaming.
http://www.loremaster.org/content/77-copyright-law-gamer-part-i-criminal-liability.html
http://www.loremaster.org/content/79-copyright-law-gamer-part-ii-civil-liability.html |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 09 Jun 2010 : 21:23:00
You have NO idea how hard it was for me not to go. Especially since I had an opportunity to have my badge and hotel paid for by volunteering to run 8+ slots for Pathfinder society... |
| Gambit |
Posted - 09 Jun 2010 : 19:56:54
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Hmmm.... we're not the only ones thinking on the IP issue. Just saw this seminar being done at GenCon this year:
quote:
Game ID: SEM1014184
Gaming Group/Company:
Title: Intellectual Property Law for Gamers
Description: This one hour seminar will cover the basics of intellectual property law for gamers. Basic copyright, trademark and patent concepts will be discussed as they apply to the gaming industry. The speaker is a partner in a leading intellectual property law firm.
Alas, the 'Con is undo-able for me this year. Anyone going and would be interested in attending this for our benefit?
Unaccpetable Ashe, you need to be there screaming at the panel during the Q&A about the lack of fansite policies. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 09 Jun 2010 : 19:51:48
Hmmm.... we're not the only ones thinking on the IP issue. Just saw this seminar being done at GenCon this year:
quote:
Game ID: SEM1014184
Gaming Group/Company:
Title: Intellectual Property Law for Gamers
Description: This one hour seminar will cover the basics of intellectual property law for gamers. Basic copyright, trademark and patent concepts will be discussed as they apply to the gaming industry. The speaker is a partner in a leading intellectual property law firm.
Alas, the 'Con is undo-able for me this year. Anyone going and would be interested in attending this for our benefit? |
| Dark Wizard |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 22:48:21
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I'd say 5E is at the very least another 6 to 7 years away. They're not going to jump the edition until they exhaust every single avenue that 4E has to offer and we're only at 25 base classes. We've still got another 2 to 3 Power Sources to exploit and another 2 to 3 Monster Manuals to put out.
Since Wizards said they would put out one PHB and MM a year, then by that estimation, 4E will only last another 2 to 3 years rather than 6 to 7 years. All told, 3E only lasted barely 8 years before they fully pulled the plug. They started working on 4E right after they put out 3.5e. I think we should look at 3e/3.5e as an example of edition cycles rather than 2e, which was probably extended due to the collapse of TSR and different business models at the time. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 21:41:43
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Careful there, Diffan. We went over the number of 4E supplements and it's well over 40 by now. So by your logic, 5th Edition will be needed by 2012.
40? Does that include DDI stuff or do you really mean printed books of a decent enough size?
Just printed material. |
| Zanan |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 20:08:30
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Careful there, Diffan. We went over the number of 4E supplements and it's well over 40 by now. So by your logic, 5th Edition will be needed by 2012.
40? Does that include DDI stuff or do you really mean printed books of a decent enough size? |
| Diffan |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 16:37:55
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Careful there, Diffan. We went over the number of 4E supplements and it's well over 40 by now. So by your logic, 5th Edition will be needed by 2012.
Oh I know. I'd wish they would slow a bit. That's the problem with WotC, they produce soo much too fast and then they're changing it over again. Its one reason I don't really get into magic anymore because they change sets like every 6 months and it's just too much to keep up with on a budget.
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
Well, Paizo seems to be doing OK with what is essentially, a home-brewed 3.5.
I agree, Pathfinder does a good job fine tuning the 3.5 system but for myself, the temptation is just too strong not to exploit the rules, at least in some small way, in my favor. I still play Pathfinder/3.5 and I always will I just find 4E refreshing and more to the style of my group play.
I'd say 5E is at the very least another 6 to 7 years away. They're not going to jump the edition until they exhaust every single avenue that 4E has to offer and we're only at 25 base classes. We've still got another 2 to 3 Power Sources to exploit and another 2 to 3 Monster Manuals to put out.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I have no problems with the rules - I am sure they are good in their own way. They are just not for me. The way magic (and other abilities) now reminds more of 'The Force', or even super-powers (which is why I think the 4e rules would make an excellent 'Supers' game).
I can respect this and I, to a point, agree with you.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
One of the biggest aspects of D&D, right from the beginning, was its magic system, and even the spell-names themselves evoked your imagination, with thoughts of legendary wizards from ages past. Gary got that from the Dying Earth novels of Jack Vance. Magic is not supposed to be merely a means to an end - its supposed to be fantastical and mysterious.
I never really liked the D&D magic system, which is why I played other RPGs more often early on, but now that I finally got my wish and they changed the whole thing, it just doesn't feel like D&D to me any more.
I never liked the Vancian-system and I suppose I probably never will. It's a reason I'm more likely to play a Warmage or Sorcerer than a wizard. I do like Clerics though but I spam out the Spontaneous casting, lol. For me, I just can't stand the fact that a wizard (steeped in arcane lore and might) would have reduced to using so trivial as a crossbow or some sort of melee weapon like a dagger. It's a reason that I allowed my arcane casters (before Pathfinder came out) to use cantrips at-will and deal max damage (yea, a whopping 3 per casting). 4E just seems to flow so much easier for us and pumping out Magic Missile at 2d4+13 damage at-will is such an awesome feeling.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I actually said more about that then I wanted... the real point I wanted to make is that a good DM can make any rules work - hell I ran Tunnels & Trolls for several years, and there's a majorly broken rules set if their ever was one. But it was fun, and the rules really didn't matter so much.
QFT.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think the reason why I can't even consider the 4e rules is 2-fold; first I can't bring myself to re-invest in yet another system. I have tons and tons of 3e books, many of which I haven't even fully read. Starting from scratch at my age just doesn't appeal to me.
The second reason is what they did to FR for 4e - I will always feel somehow in the back of my mind that the 4e rules was a murder weapon. So no matter how good they are, I will never like them, because they have been 'tainted' by my love for FR - I can't get past that. Had they left FR alone - merely pushing the timeline ahead another 10 years - there's a good chance I might have bought-into 4e... but not now. There may come a time when I decide to take the plunge, but as of right now I can't even find a 4e group anywhere near me, so what would be the point?
I hear ya. I got the first bundle package for my B-day so it was my first intro to 4E and had I not liked it off the bat, I would've gone straight to Pathfinder. As it happens, I love both for different reasons, yet I only have the $$ for 1 and I guess that new, Uber-kewl, feeling of 4E is still there so it wins out.
|
| Elfinblade |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 01:00:58
quote:
Quickly! Hide the Women-folk!
Hah! |
| althen artren |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 00:06:49
The world coundn't handle two Elminsters, imagine if they go in a fight
over some supposed mission from Mystra.
Boom go continents.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 23:55:51
If they back-pedal it a wee-bit, I can see myself buying into a 5e. Bring some of the flavor back into the magic... that would be cool. I don't really see that happening - its far more likely that they will just simplify it even more, bringing it closer to Heroscape with a minor RPG element, but we shall see.
If they re-boot the Realms continuity, I can honestly say I would give it a try. It doesn't need to be fast-forwarded (and certainly NOT AGAIN) - it needs to be re-done from scratch, with more concern for continuity and fresh story lines.
Like they did with Star Trek... but I've said that before.
Hmmmmm... would Elminster then take the place of Spock? Egads! TWO Elminsters! 
Quickly! Hide the Women-folk!  |
| Mr_Miscellany |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 23:08:15
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Careful there, Diffan. We went over the number of 4E supplements and it's well over 40 by now. So by your logic, 5th Edition will be needed by 2012.
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see 5E announced by 2012.
WotC has inundated the market (although the printed adventures are a big chunk of that)...based on their prior behavior I'd say 2012 or at the latest 2013. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 19:31:49
I have no problems with the rules - I am sure they are good in their own way. They are just not for me. The way magic (and other abilities) now reminds more of 'The Force', or even super-powers (which is why I think the 4e rules would make an excellent 'Supers' game).
One of the biggest aspects of D&D, right from the beginning, was its magic system, and even the spell-names themselves evoked your imagination, with thoughts of legendary wizards from ages past. Gary got that from the Dying Earth novels of Jack Vance. Magic is not supposed to be merely a means to an end - its supposed to be fantastical and mysterious.
I never really liked the D&D magic system, which is why I played other RPGs more often early on, but now that I finally got my wish and they changed the whole thing, it just doesn't feel like D&D to me any more.
I actually said more about that then I wanted... the real point I wanted to make is that a good DM can make any rules work - hell I ran Tunnels & Trolls for several years, and there's a majorly broken rules set if their ever was one. But it was fun, and the rules really didn't matter so much.
I think the reason why I can't even consider the 4e rules is 2-fold; first I can't bring myself to re-invest in yet another system. I have tons and tons of 3e books, many of which I haven't even fully read. Starting from scratch at my age just doesn't appeal to me.
The second reason is what they did to FR for 4e - I will always feel somehow in the back of my mind that the 4e rules was a murder weapon. So no matter how good they are, I will never like them, because they have been 'tainted' by my love for FR - I can't get past that. Had they left FR alone - merely pushing the timeline ahead another 10 years - there's a good chance I might have bought-into 4e... but not now. There may come a time when I decide to take the plunge, but as of right now I can't even find a 4e group anywhere near me, so what would be the point? |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 19:29:47
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Agreed on all fronts. It's sad how much I didn't want to go out and buy 4th ed stuff, after seeing it, and then playing it ONE time. I tried to re-do an old pc for it, and it just did not come out right AT ALL. I hated the system changes, and I don't see why they were deemed neccessary. So there goes the quality, right out the window, like you said!
It's funny cuz I was thinking the same thing towards the tail end of 3.5. Honestly, that system was SOO saturated with rules from over 60+ supplements that I believe there was little room left for yet more books. And then what happens? If they didn't do something the game would've surely died out IMO. And quality is in the eye of the beholder, obviously.
Careful there, Diffan. We went over the number of 4E supplements and it's well over 40 by now. So by your logic, 5th Edition will be needed by 2012. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 15:50:50
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Agreed on all fronts. It's sad how much I didn't want to go out and buy 4th ed stuff, after seeing it, and then playing it ONE time. I tried to re-do an old pc for it, and it just did not come out right AT ALL. I hated the system changes, and I don't see why they were deemed neccessary. So there goes the quality, right out the window, like you said!
It's funny cuz I was thinking the same thing towards the tail end of 3.5. Honestly, that system was SOO saturated with rules from over 60+ supplements that I believe there was little room left for yet more books. And then what happens? If they didn't do something the game would've surely died out IMO. And quality is in the eye of the beholder, obviously. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 19:27:41
Agreed on all fronts. It's sad how much I didn't want to go out and buy 4th ed stuff, after seeing it, and then playing it ONE time. I tried to re-do an old pc for it, and it just did not come out right AT ALL. I hated the system changes, and I don't see why they were deemed neccessary. So there goes the quality, right out the window, like you said! |
| Drizztsmanchild |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 06:15:25
MarkusTay: Its the way of corporations....once they purchase a popular smaller corp...it becomes about how much they sell...and quality goes out the window.... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 06:04:41
Huge corporations like Hasbro have lost touch - they don't understand the whole concept of 'fans' - they just know that if they under-produce the next tickle-me-Smelmo and then hype the crap out of it, it will be this year 'hot ticket item' at x-mas.
They are clueless when it comes to these niche genres - they think you can sell everything with TV adds, and D&D doesn't work that way - it takes groups of friends and social interaction. Fansites build that sort of interaction as well, in the virtual world, and if they don't allow that, then when those groups of friends get together all they will have to say about a product is bad things, because the company has gone and 'hurt their feelings'.
People forget that the thing that built D&D to the phenomena it is were 100 photocopied sets of the rules for every rulebook Gygax sold. Gary knew what was going on, but he didn't care - you can't buy word-of-mouth like that. The fans built D&D to what it was - the companies have always been along for the ride. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 05:46:11
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
True... if there were actually enough supporters of your new product to matter. 
Heh. Seriously, though, to use us and the Compendium as an example... Having fan material like that out there gets your IP noticed by folks who wouldn't necessarily have checked it out, otherwise. And it can also promote sales with those already into the setting, too. If I, for example, wrote up a travelogue of Halruaan cities, the Realms fan unfamiliar with Halruaa might read it and be intrigued enough to buy the Shining South sourcebooks to find out more. The non-Realms fan who reads it might be intrigued enough to do the same thing. It may not be a huge uptick in sales, but it would still move books -- and here's the important part -- without a penny having been spent by WotC.
The Pathfinder RPG is an excellent example of what you can do when you let the fans work for you. It was, I think, the most brilliant marketing move since the release of the 3E OGL. Without spending a dime, Paizo got perhaps the most rigorous RPG playtest in gaming history. They had the people that would use and break the rules tell them how to fix things, and they listened. And the result was a game that I think may save D&D.
The US anime industry, too, knows the power of letting fans work for you. Private individuals and groups subtitle anime that hasn't been released in the US. The US companies watch the fansub communities. And when they see that all the fansub people really like a particular title, that indicates to them a strong possibility of good sales. So a US company picks up an anime title, announces it -- and the fansub community plays fair, and stops distributing the fansubs. Then we get the commercial release, and everybody wins.
Fans can do just as much for a company as that company's advertising team can do -- and in most cases, fans do it for free. It doesn't make sense not to tell the fans what they can and can't do, and then let them help your bottom line. Fans and the companies they support are all on the same team -- so let them play together.
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