| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Josquius |
Posted - 25 Sep 2009 : 10:21:45
Hey all, there's something I'm wonering about and I hope someone can help me out.
I'm trying to compare Faerun to places on our earth to determine just how big it is, now googling around I hear mention of it being bigger than the USA with reference to some comparison map existing; does anyone happen to have a copy of this?
Are there any other comparison maps? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dewaint |
Posted - 10 May 2016 : 20:59:49
Do you recall the old Forgotten Realms Atlas published ~ 1990 ?
On the introduction pages there is a picture showing in part the curvature of Toril.
Assuming such 1e details are still good, and if you are good with sphere formulas, probably you can calculate the full planet circumference and based on that where the equator might be located.
Cheers! |
| Wolfrick |
Posted - 04 May 2016 : 23:54:04
Thanks very much! I kept searching and adjusted my search terms and also found this: http://www.realmshelps.net/faerun/lore/life/land.shtml which indicated things got hotter and more arid farther south, which seemed to indicate the equator was at the south or off the south edge of the map of the Sword Coast.
I'm just getting back into RPG after decades, and I'm new to the Forgotten Realms. So much to read! But I think I'm gonna like it here :D |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 04 May 2016 : 23:43:11
It's definitely in the northern hemisphere and the sun rises in the East. The location of the equator hasn't been set in stone in any source. Most maps of Toril only go as far south as the Isle of Nimbral (if they even go that far!) but, if we take the map of the world from the 3.0e FRCS and compare it to Ed's original maps (before the lands got compressed in 3rd edition), the equator would roughly bisect Nimbral and run about 500 miles off the south coast of Chult, scraping the southern tip of Rethild and maybe touch upon southernmost Dambrath. |
| Aulduron |
Posted - 04 May 2016 : 23:34:08
Since there is a glacier at the top of the map, I presume it is in the northern hemisphere. |
| Wolfrick |
Posted - 04 May 2016 : 22:46:13
I'm having trouble finding a geographical fact for Toril... Is Faerun in the North or South hemisphere? Where's the equator? Does the sun rise in the East as expected for Gaia?
Thanks,
Wolfrick |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 00:24:16
The scale and equatorial placements are pretty rough, but otherwise accurate, I think. Bits of jungle, desert, temperate and ice all seem to line up at least vaguely.
Also, all the realms maps I've seen are flat and un-stretched, (flat) maps of earth get all warped the closer to the poles you go, which I don't see in the realms (a good thing), which might make accurately estimating the surface area of Toril's land-masses a bit of a pain in the bum... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 00:10:41
Thank You... did you try to keep the equator placements the same?
I wanted to see them to get more of a climactic comparison, then one about size. Now that I know how big Toril really is, the known campaign area - even including stuff like Anchorome, Katashaka, and Osse - doesn't accurately reflect the entire planet - there is quite a bit more room between Anchorome and Osse (10,000 miles!), and there should be a lot more to the north and south as well.
The problem, as I see it, is the desire to reflect all sorts of cultures and environments in a single RPG setting, and while FR does this admirably (thanks to its size), we are still getting 'too much weather' in too small an area. Not really that bad in the Realms, but it is downright ludicrous in some of the settings I've looked at (the planets must be smaller then our moon). |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 22:02:13
Yeah, I'll re-link the Europe/Faerun one in a bit, but I think the world comparison one is lost...
EDIT: here we go... http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8184/eurocomp.jpg
EDIT 2: ooo! ooo! Found the Earth/Toril one! http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1707/worldcomp.jpg |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 21:42:46
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Excerpted from Ed Greenwood's post in his thread of 31 Dec 2004:
"So (bearing in mind that I can’t speak officially for Wizards), we’re agreed on Toril having a 12 percent larger diameter than Earth (therefore 8,880 miles or 14,280 km). I vote for the same gravity as Earth, so Toril must be about 90% as dense as Earth. I can live with that (as you say, we can assume divine tinkering with the availability of metals).
Adjust the latitude of all base calculations by 1.009, and I agree with your personal choice of 8.1 daylight Midwinter hours for Silverymoon and the axial tilt that results (28°53')."
Is this accurate? 
At 12% the diameter would be 8877.5792 miles - close-enough to Ed's figure. After my calculations, that would mean Toril is 27,883.2 miles at the Equator, or 44864 Kilometers!
Even if I used the more accurate 12% I calculated, it is still 27,875.6 miles (considering it is off by just under 2 miles, I would just go with Ed's 8880 figure for the calculations).
Sorry about the threadomancy, but I'm sizing my map right now to figure-out how much more I can get on it, and it appears QUITE A BIT more - the map in the FRCS is short by 10,000 miles! 
Which means Toril is either onion-shaped, or has very little axial tilt to account for the far-southern arctic circle (or is just coming out of an ice age). Maybe its a bit further from its primary then Earth, but with less axial tilt (we wouldn't want the tropics getting overly hot). That would cause very large glaciated areas north and south.
I'm gonna go with the 'little ice Age' for my own piece of mind - its simpler and fits a tiny, obscure bit of canon lore better. Also, it appears that Ed is agreeing with some other poster in that above quotation, and he is saying that Toril has a GREATER axial tilt then Earth. I'm certainly no expert - I just been reading a bunch of science sites today - but that doesn't seem to work at all, given the very large north and south polar zones. The other solution would be to say that most of the known world is actually in the northern hemisphere, which would drop the equator quite a bit south, but at least would eliminate some of the climatic weirdness.
Cleric generic, your map links are dead. 
I may doctor-up my own map, just to get some idea of what kind of weather we are talking about here - I'm getting the feeling that Ten Towns isn't really that cold, they're just having a REALLY bad (and long) winter.
THO, if you visit this thread, can you or Ed provide any input? I don't want to load down his thread with stuff he probably has answered already. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 06:05:13
I would prefer a finite universe, such as a flat world, for a fantasy setting.
Infinity can suck it |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 02 Dec 2009 : 16:17:48
hehe, no, it isn't flat. I was just asking about alternative, non-canonical versions people have used, such as mine. |
| swifty |
Posted - 02 Dec 2009 : 12:37:25
er...are you being serious.is toril flat.sorry if im being really dumb. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 18:31:12
Slightly OT question: of course, the canon is clear that Faerun is a 'proper' planet orbiting a 'proper' sun with other planets in a giant vacuum (basically), but does anyone use a more mythical variant?
e.g. I assume Toril is flat, with the sun and moon orbiting it as it remains stationary. If you sail far enough from the land, the water gradually 'thins out' into the Astral Sea (Also accessible by climbing the highest peak of the Yehimal Range). The stars and nebulae visible in the Sea of Night are only the merest hints of the unimaginable glory beyond the Crystal Sphere. It hangs in Ao's grand halls; Ao has thrown a cloak over the sphere to save the world from destruction by his ambient majesty, and the stars, etc, are what is visible through the threads of the cloak. The Five Wanderers are actually entertainers, aides and petitoners, etc, moving about Ao's grand halls in the vicinity of Toril's Sphere, as glimplsed through the weave of the cloak. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 16:23:54
Excerpted from Ed Greenwood's post in his thread of 31 Dec 2004:
"So (bearing in mind that I can’t speak officially for Wizards), we’re agreed on Toril having a 12 percent larger diameter than Earth (therefore 8,880 miles or 14,280 km). I vote for the same gravity as Earth, so Toril must be about 90% as dense as Earth. I can live with that (as you say, we can assume divine tinkering with the availability of metals).
Adjust the latitude of all base calculations by 1.009, and I agree with your personal choice of 8.1 daylight Midwinter hours for Silverymoon and the axial tilt that results (28°53')." |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 17:18:46
quote:
Originally posted by jcdf
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Ama Basin, I believe, is discussed in the old Kara Tur book(s), but beyond that I know little. Sages greater than I will no doubt have a more useful answer!
Alsom what did the maps prove?
That I was right about the size of Faerun. Jorkens said I was not.
I said previously:
quote:
I have done some approximations on a typical map of Faerun. Faerun up to the Plains of Purple dust and the Great Ice Sea is about the same size as Europe up to the Ural mountains, Caspian Sea, the Plateau of Iran and including the Mediterranean Sea.
While Europe appears smaller on your map than Faerun, your European map does not include Scandinavia.
Indeed. The omission of scandinavia was largely deliborate, as it winds up stretching out all over the place (forget what the cartographic term for the sphere-flat conversion is). A distortion less apparent in the rest of europe, and absent in the faerun maps (I assume, they don't look warped to me). |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 17:14:57
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
EDIT 2: And here's one with all Toril and Earth, using the excellent work of Markustay and (for both of them) Wizards of the Coast and Google (credit where credit is due, and all that!) http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/TheVoiceOfReason311/WorldComp.jpg
Thanks for this very much Cleric. I have been hoping for something like this for a while. Now the next thing that would be great in Realms geography would be a Globe (or 2, one post and one pre spellplague), complete with bumps for mountain ranges like an earth globe. 
haha! As soon as I can figure out how the hell to make such a thing, making it will be my highest priority! |
| jcdf |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 16:20:22
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Ama Basin, I believe, is discussed in the old Kara Tur book(s), but beyond that I know little. Sages greater than I will no doubt have a more useful answer!
Alsom what did the maps prove?
That I was right about the size of Faerun. Jorkens said I was not.
I said previously:
quote:
I have done some approximations on a typical map of Faerun. Faerun up to the Plains of Purple dust and the Great Ice Sea is about the same size as Europe up to the Ural mountains, Caspian Sea, the Plateau of Iran and including the Mediterranean Sea.
While Europe appears smaller on your map than Faerun, your European map does not include Scandinavia. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 15:54:05
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
EDIT 2: And here's one with all Toril and Earth, using the excellent work of Markustay and (for both of them) Wizards of the Coast and Google (credit where credit is due, and all that!) http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/TheVoiceOfReason311/WorldComp.jpg
Thanks for this very much Cleric. I have been hoping for something like this for a while. Now the next thing that would be great in Realms geography would be a Globe (or 2, one post and one pre spellplague), complete with bumps for mountain ranges like an earth globe. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 06:00:24
If you go back in Ed's answers, I believe that Ed confirmed a poster's speculations and math regarding Toril's circumference, equator and axial tilt. Not sure of the date or the details, but I believe this was all worked out to some degree of specificity. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 01:33:56
Ama Basin, I believe, is discussed in the old Kara Tur book(s), but beyond that I know little. Sages greater than I will no doubt have a more useful answer!
Alsom what did the maps prove? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 01:33:12
All we know about Osse itself has been revealed in the Lady of Poison novel -- part of "The Priests" series. Aside from a few obvious examples in the book, I usually don't agree with many who say that Osse is a direct translation of, or heavily influenced by, Australian Aborigine culture. Gunggari's mannerisms aside [as well as his dizheri], it could be said that the supposed "ways" of the Osse people could very well be associated with many other examples of Polynesian tribal cultures. I always thought the actual name "Osse" was a bit of a joke as a matter of fact... |
| jcdf |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 01:06:42
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Upon seeing this topic, I 'shopped a google map of europe over the FR map (will upload once I've wrestled photobucket into submission).
Yeah, Feerun is big. You can just about fit Poland into Thay, the British Isles are just about swallowed up by Anauroch (and are about the size of the Moonshaes), Turkey is outweighed by the Shaar, the High Forest is just a smidge bigger than Ireland, Calimshan covers more or less the same area as Spain and Portugal, and the Chultan Peninsula goes damn near from Morocco to Egypt.
Note: For humanitarian reasons, I feel I must inform you that I've used the 4e map for this comparison, and hope that doing so will not cause any undue distress :p
EDIT: aaand here it is! http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/TheVoiceOfReason311/EuroComp.jpg
EDIT 2: And here's one with all Toril and Earth, using the excellent work of Markustay and (for both of them) Wizards of the Coast and Google (credit where credit is due, and all that!) http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/TheVoiceOfReason311/WorldComp.jpg
Haha I was proven right. Thanks for the maps Cleric generic. 
On the world map, Ama Basin is not a place you hear much about, does anyone know anything about it?
Osse is also unknown, anybody know anything about it? |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 00:31:40
Yeah, the scale accuracy in those map overlays is about as rough as you'd expact for five minutes of ham-fisted 'shopping, I think it gives a good idea of it though. :)
As for placement, I didn't really give it any thought; I just plonked one on top of the other for size comparison only. I think the equators are vaguely lined up on the world/toril map though.
Glad you liked them! |
| wintermute27 |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 23:01:32
From the Candlekeep FAQ:
quote:
Looking at the map in F&A, we can see that the equator runs through the southern part of Maztica (just below the published map), through the northern portion of Zakhara, and through the southern reaches of Kara-Tur. It falls a little south of Nimbral (I think that's Nimbral) and well south of Chult.
Abeir-Toril, according to every published source, is roughly equivalent in size to Earth. However, part of what determines the size of the tropics and the intensity of the seasons is whether or not it has the same axial tilt. Since there are very definite summers and winters, I'd say the axial tilt is the same or perhaps even a little greater (23.5-25 degrees, as a ballpark guess).
Note also, from the same map, that even including Maztica we've only seen about a third of the surface area of Toril. There's a LOT of room for more lands to explore, to the west of Maztica and/or the east of Kara-Tur (as well as to the south of everything).
|
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 21:08:24
Oh, hey, that's interesting work Cleric Generic, thanks!
Can't speak to the scale, but I do get the impression (based on pure fancy on my part, to be sure) that you might have stuff rotated a little north, if that makes any sense. I've always been kinda curious about where the equator of Abeir-Toril lay, especially in relation to the Shining South of the Faerûnian sub-continent. Magic-influenced weather patterns frustrates guesses based on supposed real-world analogues, or at least they do my guesses.
Cheers,
|
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 18:51:54
Upon seeing this topic, I 'shopped a google map of europe over the FR map (will upload once I've wrestled photobucket into submission).
Yeah, Feerun is big. You can just about fit Poland into Thay, the British Isles are just about swallowed up by Anauroch (and are about the size of the Moonshaes), Turkey is outweighed by the Shaar, the High Forest is just a smidge bigger than Ireland, Calimshan covers more or less the same area as Spain and Portugal, and the Chultan Peninsula goes damn near from Morocco to Egypt.
Note: For humanitarian reasons, I feel I must inform you that I've used the 4e map for this comparison, and hope that doing so will not cause any undue distress :p
EDIT: aaand here it is! http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/TheVoiceOfReason311/EuroComp.jpg
EDIT 2: And here's one with all Toril and Earth, using the excellent work of Markustay and (for both of them) Wizards of the Coast and Google (credit where credit is due, and all that!) http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/TheVoiceOfReason311/WorldComp.jpg |
| Wenin |
Posted - 26 Sep 2009 : 14:29:24
I have the comparison, and eyeballing it, I'd guess that the Sword Coast is as long as the west coast, from Alaska, to the southern tip of Central America.
The sea of fallen stars is HUGE =)
I'd also like to change my comparison of Illinois to cormyr, they look to be about the same size. Cormyr is fat, while Illinois is long. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 26 Sep 2009 : 12:22:24
That sounds to small to me, especially for the TSR edition. I don't have the book before me right now, but the Realms between the Sword coast to the West, the eastern border of the Moonsea to the East, and Calimshan to the South would be approximately the size of North America. Europe would hardly cover the area between Anauroch and Amn.
But as I said, I don't have the comparison map in front of me, so I could be wrong here. |
| jcdf |
Posted - 25 Sep 2009 : 21:14:02
In Geographical size North America is the third largest continent on the planet after Eurasia and Africa. So it should come as no surprise for Faerun based on the Eurasian continent to be larger than North America.
I have done some approximations on a typical map of Faerun. Faerun up to the Plains of Purple dust and the Great Ice Sea is about the same size as Europe up to the Ural mountains, Caspian Sea, the Plateau of Iran and including the Mediterranean Sea.
The big wastes beyond the Endless Wastes, filled with giant worms, that are the same as the steppe plains of central Asia. Kara-Tur is beyond. |
| Wenin |
Posted - 25 Sep 2009 : 19:05:34
The only comparison map out there is the Grey box set, which compares Faerun as a line drawing showing major bodies of water and terrain features, compared to a blackened image of the USA. Otherwise, you'll have to use a ruler and start measuring things for comparison.
From the looks of it, eyeballing, Cormyr looks to be smaller than Illinois. |
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