| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| scererar |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 01:39:33
Hey, check it out. the character builder beta test version has gone live for everyone to include non-subscribers to DDI. I have chacked this out during the closed beta portion, and it is actually very cool. And I am not meaning KEWL you grognards 
You can do a build up to level 3
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081211 |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 15 Dec 2008 : 05:11:11
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
The resulting character sheet is astonishingly ugly ... large black blocks with white text? C#mon you should be able to do better than that!
-Keep in mind, this is the Beta, here. I am sure, once the whole things gets up and running, WotC will have the Character Builder, the Deluxe Character Builder (that costs a little extra, of course, and has some more features), and "expansion pack" type things. If they were really mean, they could, in theory, have the Character Builder only use '4e Core' information, and charge for "expansion pack" type things a la Draconomicon, Player's Handbook II, etc... |
| Pandora |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 22:58:40
Personally I dont like programs which install themselves in a fixed directory, its not that we are in the '90s and using MS-DOS anymore. The character builder does that, so it gets a big minus for it.
The resulting character sheet is astonishingly ugly ... large black blocks with white text? C#mon you should be able to do better than that! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 22:33:20
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Take the example of Neverwinter Nights. The fact that there is a Windows, a Mac and a Linux version has contributed to success of this great game, IMHO. I (Mac user) have first seen it at a friend of mine (Linux user), who introduced the game to me. Take the example of Blizzard, who alway publishes its games as Windows and Mac program (even Diablo III will be published for both platforms).
Blizzard is, I daresay, a far more profitable company that WotC. And computer gamers are not the same market as RPG players -- there are people that fit into both categories, but there's a large number of people that only fit into one.
Isnt that exactly what WotC attempts with 4e by making it Diablo-comparable? Tapping into the computer kids market?
Not quite. They seem to be trying to copy the playability of MMOs, without realizing it's the convenience of MMOs that gives them the advantage. And they're doing this for PnP games -- not computer. |
| Pandora |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 22:13:50
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Take the example of Neverwinter Nights. The fact that there is a Windows, a Mac and a Linux version has contributed to success of this great game, IMHO. I (Mac user) have first seen it at a friend of mine (Linux user), who introduced the game to me. Take the example of Blizzard, who alway publishes its games as Windows and Mac program (even Diablo III will be published for both platforms).
Blizzard is, I daresay, a far more profitable company that WotC. And computer gamers are not the same market as RPG players -- there are people that fit into both categories, but there's a large number of people that only fit into one.
Isnt that exactly what WotC attempts with 4e by making it Diablo-comparable? Tapping into the computer kids market? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 22:06:47
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Take the example of Neverwinter Nights. The fact that there is a Windows, a Mac and a Linux version has contributed to success of this great game, IMHO. I (Mac user) have first seen it at a friend of mine (Linux user), who introduced the game to me. Take the example of Blizzard, who alway publishes its games as Windows and Mac program (even Diablo III will be published for both platforms).
Blizzard is, I daresay, a far more profitable company that WotC. And computer gamers are not the same market as RPG players -- there are people that fit into both categories, but there's a large number of people that only fit into one.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
I am not sure that the D&D market is mostly a windows market - there a indications that Mac and Linux are a sizeable factor. To limit the software to Windows is questionable at least.
What indications, other than games produced for another market?
The greater portion of the computer world runs on Windows. Therefore, it can easily be assumed that the majority of D&D players who use computers use Windows. It's as simple as that. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 22:02:32
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Useless. PC only, and even there Windows only. WotC don't want Mac and Linux User to play D&D.
That's a little harsh. It's not unreasonable to expect someone to release a product that will be usable by easily 75% of the target market.
Besides, this is just the beta. The final version may be good for non-Windows stuff.
Hmmm ... D&D players usually get the "nerd" stamp. And what do nerds do? Many of them are computer geeks and probably have Linux, so I would say getting a version for Linux would make sense.
It certainly does make sense... But still, a lot of nerds and geeks use Windows. Again, it's where the majority of the money is. It's prolly simply not profitable for them to try to cater to a small subsection of their target market. |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 21:24:41
Take the example of Neverwinter Nights. The fact that there is a Windows, a Mac and a Linux version has contributed to success of this great game, IMHO. I (Mac user) have first seen it at a friend of mine (Linux user), who introduced the game to me. Take the example of Blizzard, who alway publishes its games as Windows and Mac program (even Diablo III will be published for both platforms).
I am not sure that the D&D market is mostly a windows market - there a indications that Mac and Linux are a sizeable factor. To limit the software to Windows is questionable at least. |
| Pandora |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 21:06:43
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Useless. PC only, and even there Windows only. WotC don't want Mac and Linux User to play D&D.
That's a little harsh. It's not unreasonable to expect someone to release a product that will be usable by easily 75% of the target market.
Besides, this is just the beta. The final version may be good for non-Windows stuff.
Hmmm ... D&D players usually get the "nerd" stamp. And what do nerds do? Many of them are computer geeks and probably have Linux, so I would say getting a version for Linux would make sense. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 20:12:56
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
I don't think that it is harsh. In these days there a more Mac and Linux users than ever before. If WotC really want to start a digital initiative, then it is a little short sighted to ignore a sizeable portion of computer users (and D&D players).
There are more Mac and Linux users than before, yes. But they still represent a relatively small portion of the fan base. WotC is simply going where the much larger portion of the money is. It's a good business practice.
Besides... It's taken them this long to give us an open beta for Windows. And I've yet to hear anything overly positive about it... It'd prolly take them another year to do the same for non-Windows platforms, and I daresay that those customers would have higher expectations than the Windows people would.
I'm not knocking the non-Windows world. And I'm not saying WotC was right to ignore that world. I am saying, though, that it was a good business decision, and I don't see that there's any reason to be quite that harsh. |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 20:06:20
The visualizer is what I'm looking forward to...any news on when it will come up as a play test version? |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 18:17:14
-That's what you people get for having Macs, and trying to be "cool" and "hip". And anyway, "cool" people don't play D&D, so there no problem there.
 |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 17:55:59
I don't think that it is harsh. In these days there a more Mac and Linux users than ever before. If WotC really want to start a digital initiative, then it is a little short sighted to ignore a sizeable portion of computer users (and D&D players). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 17:39:00
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Useless. PC only, and even there Windows only. WotC don't want Mac and Linux User to play D&D.
That's a little harsh. It's not unreasonable to expect someone to release a product that will be usable by easily 75% of the target market.
Besides, this is just the beta. The final version may be good for non-Windows stuff. |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 17:27:47
Useless. PC only, and even there Windows only. WotC don't want Mac and Linux User to play D&D. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 17:17:12
-So, any obvious reasons why it took so long? Is it, like, super amazing? |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 03:26:15
Actually, I hadn't counted that as a 'crash' since it just hung on the .NET portion and didn't effect the overall download of the program. I just closed it out and did the install. The install only crashed on the computer restart, but I shut down the laptop and started it up manually and it finished fine. The other two crashes occurred when I tried to run the builder itself. The first was when it tried to load the splash screen, I had to kill the process and sent off the bug report to WotC. I then tried to run it again, and it got past the splash screen to the menu screen, then turned the window blaok, opened a second black window and then hung there.
I killed the process again, then ran it again and finally got into the builder without problems. Going through the builder, however, I didn't see much of a 'programming' difference between this and the 3E builder you got in the first batch of PHB's. A character builder is a relatively simple program, I admit (heck, made so many myself through the years, I should know), but there really wasn't anything that 'grabbed' me.
The good points about it were 1) Gives the same information that's printed in the books when you're making your choices. 2) Updated with the current information that has been released (although I know that once it goes live, you'll need to 'prove' you have a copy of the book to get this. 3) It has a built-in RPGA verification tool after you've built your character to make sure that it's compatible.
I admit, I'm not a big fan of 4E, but I am a rules-lawyer by trade and a RPGA member for life, so I know that if I want to play in RPGA, I'll have to keep up with 4th Edition. But this is not something that I'd be willing to pay for. Heck, I paid Ema a one-time fee and can save four characters on his site (you can build custom blank sheets for free to download and print), which I can then save as PDFs or print out, and his build/layout system is pretty sweet. Not to mention he had his 4E versions up and updated pretty quickly after the books are released, so I guess I a bit spoiled on that. |
| scererar |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 02:55:25
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I downloaded and checked it out. Aside from the blurbs for powers/races/classes/etc while your building the character, I don't see it being anything more than what you can do with Ema's sheets or anything I've created in excel for my personal use.
Not to mention I had three (3!) crashes trying to load and start the builder. Not a auspicious beginning, but as they say, it is a beta test. However, since it's been in closed beta for over a month, I'd think they have the bugs worked out on the loading of the builder. I'd only expect to see bugs after it started at this point in the test.
the crash when downloading is an update microsoft issue that has been identified and a link provided to make it easier to download. something to do with .NET framework |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 01:55:20
I downloaded and checked it out. Aside from the blurbs for powers/races/classes/etc while your building the character, I don't see it being anything more than what you can do with Ema's sheets or anything I've created in excel for my personal use.
Not to mention I had three (3!) crashes trying to load and start the builder. Not a auspicious beginning, but as they say, it is a beta test. However, since it's been in closed beta for over a month, I'd think they have the bugs worked out on the loading of the builder. I'd only expect to see bugs after it started at this point in the test. |
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