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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Mar 2007 : 00:16:28
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"And lo did he take the ancient and mighty staff of thread smiting, and he spake upon the gathered populace and declared:
Bump"
For those who are in the final stages of the novel!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Kairin
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 09:11:06
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| I just finished the book.. And I have to say I thought it was really good. I like the chaotic, claustrophobic feeling the entire story had. I liked the characters a lot too (having a bi-sexual main-character that isn't a evil drow makes me so happy). I enjoyed the fact that it wasn't just one traitor.. It made so much more sense. I wish I had read the Twilight short story though. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 15:26:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Kairin
I just finished the book.. And I have to say I thought it was really good. I like the chaotic, claustrophobic feeling the entire story had. I liked the characters a lot too (having a bi-sexual main-character that isn't a evil drow makes me so happy). I enjoyed the fact that it wasn't just one traitor.. It made so much more sense. I wish I had read the Twilight short story though.
Thank you for your feedback!
Are you referring to the Realms of the Elves story, or the webstory attached to Depths? Because the webstory is free (see the other thread in this very book club). The RotE anthology is very much worth picking up, IMO.
Cheers
(EDIT: And yes, I did catch the "bi-sexual" comment, and yes, you are indeed correct.) |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 28 Mar 2007 18:09:38 |
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Kairin
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 20:47:40
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Thanks for the tips, I'll make sure to read the story online than :)
I must add that the revelation that the dungeon was reversed, that they had been descending all the time really gave me the creeps.
Are you planning to write original books not set in the Forgotten Realms universe btw? It would be interesting to see what you would write in your own world and without the PG-13 restriction.. |
Edited by - Kairin on 28 Mar 2007 20:51:37 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 21:13:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Kairin
Thanks for the tips, I'll make sure to read the story online than :)
I must add that the revelation that the dungeon was reversed, that they had been descending all the time really gave me the creeps.
Heheheh. It was one of my original visions for the book -- an upside down dungeon.
quote:
Are you planning to write original books not set in the Forgotten Realms universe btw? It would be interesting to see what you would write in your own world and without the PG-13 restriction..
Indeed, I do write outside the FR universe -- I just haven't published anything yet. I'm currently at the polishing stage for a particular novel set in my own world (the World of Ruin, it's called), and I'll be seeking out agents/publishers within the next few months, I think.
My blog (see my sig) has frequent updates on the subject.
And yes indeed -- without the PG-13 restriction, my writing is somewhat more graphic and, perhaps, mature. I'd call myself an "R" writer.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2007 : 03:01:27
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Erik.......You Dastard!!!!
You've done it again, another well crafted tome worthy of Candlekeep!!
I was hoping that Davoren would make it though. He was sooooo
much more likeable than Meris!!  
I really liked the twist with Slip turing out to be evil.
I am so tired of the halfling, who no matter how greedy or bad they seem, always does the right thing in the end. It is about time th truth about Halflings came out!!!
Gargan is a very cool character and I think it will be great for Twilight to have someone she can trust.( At least I assume she will given what his destiny is) But, I suppose that would be to "Normal" for her and she will Kill him soon enough!
I have a few questions that I want to let "perculate" before I ask, In hopes that I can answer them myself. I look forward to others comments about the end and the novel as a whole.
P.S. Now that we know that this dungeon is Upside down, I think My Helter Skelter comparison of TToTTD fits this as well!!
P.P.S. Definately can hear the Metallica Fire up in the background when Gargan is around.
edit: Punctuation!! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 30 Mar 2007 03:02:55 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2007 : 15:23:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Erik.......You Dastard!!!!
You've done it again, another well crafted tome worthy of Candlekeep!!
Why thank you, sir. 
quote:
I was hoping that Davoren would make it though. He was sooooo
much more likeable than Meris!!
Hmm . . . well, read this web article, which is post-dated, and tell me your thoughts.
Being half-eaten by a troll will do a little something to your mind.
quote:
I really liked the twist with Slip turing out to be evil.
I am so tired of the halfling, who no matter how greedy or bad they seem, always does the right thing in the end. It is about time th truth about Halflings came out!!!
True that -- Slip's "turning" was planned from the very beginning. It's not accurate to call it a turning, either, since she was evil through and through from the very start.
quote:
Gargan is a very cool character and I think it will be great for Twilight to have someone she can trust.( At least I assume she will given what his destiny is) But, I suppose that would be to "Normal" for her and she will Kill him soon enough!
Maybe, maybe not -- I've set it up for them to be companions for some time. Both of them are clear foils for the other -- he's big and strong, she's small and fast. She's clever and pretty, he's plain but has the wisdom of the ages.
And he's offering her something she's not used to: friendship.
We'll see where this goes . . . maybe. 
quote:
I have a few questions that I want to let "perculate" before I ask, In hopes that I can answer them myself. I look forward to others comments about the end and the novel as a whole.
Indeed. I would be happy to answer any and all that I can.
quote:
P.S. Now that we know that this dungeon is Upside down, I think My Helter Skelter comparison of TToTTD fits this as well!!
Oh yes. 
quote:
P.P.S. Definately can hear the Metallica Fire up in the background when Gargan is around.
He does have kind of that air, eh?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2007 : 00:51:18
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I'm almost finished (25 pages left to go) but I'm surprised at all the twists and turns this book has.
It turns out that Liet is...a priest of Demogorgon? Geez, it really is always the one you least expect. Does he have a split personality or something?
I liked the scenes at the Goliath village...they made for a needed "rest" period after the trip through a scary dungeon. I did feel bad for Twilight and all the pain she was going through...I've been rather sick myself for the past few days, but after reading what Twilight went through...well, it made me thankful that my pains were nothing compared to hers.
Some of Slips comments are indeed creepy...but the irony here is that I actually laughed when her eyes exploded in her face. I guess I'm a hypocrite. Oh, and I think Twilight's real name is quite pretty. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2007 : 05:15:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Being half-eaten by a troll will do a little something to your mind.
I did not read this until after I read the book, and I am glad he survived, he was a great character.
And he's offering her something she's not used to: friendship.
We'll see where this goes . . . maybe.
I sure hope so!
Great story, I generally figure out the "twists" early on, but not this time. Other than Asson, Taslin, and Davoran I had doubts about all the characters, but never "got it." All of the characters were excellent, but I particularly liked Gargan, now I want to play a goliath. One of the guys is my group is playing a goliath barbarian in our campaign starting next week, I want to make him read this before we start. I loved the way you wrote the goliath camp and the way the exiled Gargan was treated by his fellows. That being said, their sudden appearance in the camp confused the heck out of me, which was further compounded when Gargan led Twilight back in. Could he not have found his way out before that?
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War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
Year of the Hooded Falcon
Xysma's Gallery
Guide to the Tomes and Tales of the Realms download from Candlekeep
Anthologies and Tales Overviews
Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2007 : 15:41:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I'm almost finished (25 pages left to go) but I'm surprised at all the twists and turns this book has.
25 pages left? Oh boy -- you're in for it.
quote:
It turns out that Liet is...a priest of Demogorgon? Geez, it really is always the one you least expect. Does he have a split personality or something?
Why yes -- yes he does. Which is actually the trademark of the Thrall of Demogorgon, just like his two-headed and two-minded master.
quote:
I liked the scenes at the Goliath village...they made for a needed "rest" period after the trip through a scary dungeon.
Why thank you -- that whole scene was a little surreal for me (but incredibly fun to write), as it's just so different from the rest of the book. But Twilight was still reeling from being in the dungeon, and she was still in shock when she woke up in this strange place. Then kinda wandered outside the protective circles . . .
quote:
I did feel bad for Twilight and all the pain she was going through...I've been rather sick myself for the past few days, but after reading what Twilight went through...well, it made me thankful that my pains were nothing compared to hers.
I'm cruel, I know -- and sorry you've been sick! 
quote:
Some of Slips comments are indeed creepy...but the irony here is that I actually laughed when her eyes exploded in her face. I guess I'm a hypocrite.
Heh -- different readers react differently to that scene. One fellow (who favored Slip over the other characters) told me he hurled the book across the room and swore at me for about 5 minutes . . . Score!
quote:
Oh, and I think Twilight's real name is quite pretty.
Thanks!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2007 : 15:47:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Being half-eaten by a troll will do a little something to your mind.
I did not read this until after I read the book, and I am glad he survived, he was a great character.
Yes, I rather liked him too. His death still stands, of course -- perhaps he was rescued by his infernal patron, perhaps the troll couldn't quite finish and left his remains for dead (and he reknit afterwards). The explanation I leave to one's imagination.
quote:
Great story, I generally figure out the "twists" early on, but not this time. Other than Asson, Taslin, and Davoran I had doubts about all the characters, but never "got it."
Everyone's a suspect, no?
quote:
All of the characters were excellent, but I particularly liked Gargan, now I want to play a goliath. One of the guys is my group is playing a goliath barbarian in our campaign starting next week, I want to make him read this before we start. I loved the way you wrote the goliath camp and the way the exiled Gargan was treated by his fellows.
For reference (and I don't know if you need it), Gargan is a ranger / goliath liberator with a level or two of barbarian.
That was a great part of the book for me to write. Gargan originally started as kind of a throw-away character -- I conceived him literally thinking, "well, they need some melee support" -- and he blossomed into a full-blown hero. I like him too -- and that's why he's alive.
quote:
That being said, their sudden appearance in the camp confused the heck out of me, which was further compounded when Gargan led Twilight back in. Could he not have found his way out before that?
Well, when they awoke in the prison, Gargan wasn't in any environ he recognized, so he spent the book looking for the place he had been before. If he'd found "Gestal's world," he could have tracked/found his way out. And once he *did* enter Gestal's world, he led them pretty flawlessly.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2007 : 19:51:31
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Well Erik, I finished the book today and I have to congratulate you on a really good book. The last 20 pages are packed with twist after twist after twist that just let's you go "oooh" and "aaah" all the time.
Especially the final scene in Demogorgons temple was great, although I'm not sure how Slip could control that place without her eyes (or did I miss something???).
The ending sure has a touch of Palahniuk to it (if you don't mind me compairing): you've got a great deal to think about after finishing this book and thats something that I appreciate a lot.
Yours,
Braveheart
P.S.: You've probably changed my view of Halflings a lot. Little bastards.. what's next? A little Chucky, the killerhalfling? |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
Edited by - Braveheart on 02 Apr 2007 19:52:19 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2007 : 19:57:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Braveheart
Well Erik, I finished the book today and I have to congratulate you on a really good book. The last 20 pages are packed with twist after twist after twist that just let's you go "oooh" and "aaah" all the time.
Thank you very much!
quote:
Especially the final scene in Demogorgons temple was great, although I'm not sure how Slip could control that place without her eyes (or did I miss something???).
Well, as the favored servant of Demogorgon, she can probably regrow her eyes, or at least use magic to "see" instead.
quote:
The ending sure has a touch of Palahniuk to it (if you don't mind me compairing): you've got a great deal to think about after finishing this book and thats something that I appreciate a lot.
That's a truly wonderful (for me!) comparison, and I'm glad it worked for you!
quote:
P.S.: You've probably changed my view of Halflings a lot. Little bastards.. what's next? A little Chucky, the killerhalfling?
That sounds like a Ravenloft story to me.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2007 : 20:08:55
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Ah, I forgot to tell you that I wrote a (short) review on your book at the german Amazon site, hope thats helps a bit  |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2007 : 20:33:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Braveheart
Ah, I forgot to tell you that I wrote a (short) review on your book at the german Amazon site, hope thats helps a bit
Danke!
I appreciate the support immensely. Here's to finding out those wriggling little secrets Twilight's got in her head, like (for instance):
- who is "he/him"?
- is she ever going to settle down with a nice guy/girl?
- what's *really* the deal with Twilight and Erevan?
- where does her sword really come from?
- is she ever going to sleep with hot rocky--I mean, Gargan?
And many, many more.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2007 : 21:07:29
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quote:
- is she ever going to sleep with hot rocky--I mean, Gargan?
Rule number 5: Never sleep with the cannon fodder. Even if he survived a story. |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2007 : 21:20:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Braveheart
quote:
- is she ever going to sleep with hot rocky--I mean, Gargan?
Rule number 5: Never sleep with the cannon fodder. Even if he survived a story.
Oh, Twilight's already broken that rule -- Arandon, Telketh, Yldar ("tGt"), even Liet (in a sense).
Cheers
P.S. And yes, Telketh is the self-same dwarf noted in the prologue and the webstory.
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2007 : 23:01:08
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| Really looking forward to see how 'Light screws up more of her life (I mean that in the best possible way :) ) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2007 : 23:22:53
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
Really looking forward to see how 'Light screws up more of her life (I mean that in the best possible way :) )
Ha!
Oh no -- the ups and downs, trials and trevails. The important thing is that she struggles to make things right.
DoM is kind of a turning point for her, really, where she's starting to come into touch with who she is -- and the fact that she can't just run from it.
This novel sets the stage for her continued growth as a person, to fix her mistakes and try to make some peace with herself (and others). And as you might guess, Gargan would be a big help in that department -- if only because he's the first "friend" Twilight has had in a long, long time.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2007 : 00:21:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
25 pages left? Oh boy -- you're in for it.
I'm done now, and yes, the ending was quite a doozy (in a good way). Weird, scary, surprising, and different. I liked it.
quote:
Why yes -- yes he does. Which is actually the trademark of the Thrall of Demogorgon, just like his two-headed and two-minded master.
I guess what's amazing is:
--that one side of a priest of Demogorgon is actually kind of nice, kind of heroic, and kind of dopey.
--that Twilight can say that she fell in love with one personality of a person who was afflicted with Multiple Personality Disorder. Hey, not many people can say that...
It the end, it was a bit sweet, because according to what Gestal said, Liet wasn't the original person, he came/was created later, and in a way was an innocent party to Gestal's acts, and in the end Twilight set him free (although not without killing him).
quote:
Why thank you -- that whole scene was a little surreal for me (but incredibly fun to write), as it's just so different from the rest of the book. But Twilight was still reeling from being in the dungeon, and she was still in shock when she woke up in this strange place. Then kinda wandered outside the protective circles . . .
I agree with some others that the Goliath's were cool, and I wouldn't mind seeing more of Gargan, if possible. His actions in the book all made sense in the end.
quote:
I'm cruel, I know -- and sorry you've been sick!
Thank you. Slowly but surely I've been getting better. But the amount of pain Twilight went through was surprising, and I would definitely never consider her an "author's darling" (you touched on this in your interview). That's a good thing in my book.
quote:
Heh -- different readers react differently to that scene. One fellow (who favored Slip over the other characters) told me he hurled the book across the room and swore at me for about 5 minutes . . . Score!
(I'm still laughing by the way).
That end scene with Slip...that was one of the creepiest denouements I've read in a long time. Again, it all makes sense, and I liked the scene where the truth suddenly "dawns" on Davoren and he starts to unravel the mystery.
Great job, Erik--I had fun. Thanks for the read. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2007 : 01:35:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Why yes -- yes he does. Which is actually the trademark of the Thrall of Demogorgon, just like his two-headed and two-minded master.
I guess what's amazing is:
--that one side of a priest of Demogorgon is actually kind of nice, kind of heroic, and kind of dopey.
--that Twilight can say that she fell in love with one personality of a person who was afflicted with Multiple Personality Disorder. Hey, not many people can say that...
People with D.I.D. (Disassociative Identity Disorder) can have vastly different personalities, each of which is generally "geared" to a certain task/situation/scenario. In Liet/Gestal's case, Gestal is clearly a personality suited to extreme anger and murderous situations -- the "tough, dark side" called upon to handle those fight-or-flight situations, while Liet is more laid-back, "dopey" as you put it.
It might, actually, make more sense that Liet is the base/original personality, while Gestal is a personification of Liet's anger (remember the "I must not get angry . . . must stay calm" that he sometimes thinks about, without really knowing why, in certain situations?). Then again, perhaps Gestal was telling the truth and he really is the base, and Liet is kind of his "lure" personality, or a piece of his childhood (you know, stuck at a certain age, regardless of his actual physical age?). Or, perhaps, neither of them is the original. . .
In the end, I leave it up to the reader.
quote:
It the end, it was a bit sweet, because according to what Gestal said, Liet wasn't the original person, he came/was created later, and in a way was an innocent party to Gestal's acts, and in the end Twilight set him free (although not without killing him).
No victory without sacrifice.  That was kinda my theme here.
quote:
I agree with some others that the Goliath's were cool, and I wouldn't mind seeing more of Gargan, if possible. His actions in the book all made sense in the end.
If Twilight returns, so will Gargan. (That is, assuming Wizards is cool with that.)
quote:
quote:
I'm cruel, I know -- and sorry you've been sick!
Thank you. Slowly but surely I've been getting better.
I'm glad to hear it!
quote:
But the amount of pain Twilight went through was surprising, and I would definitely never consider her an "author's darling" (you touched on this in your interview). That's a good thing in my book.
Yeah, I've heard that criticism levelled (in some cases, I think, quite arguably) at some overarching plots, where you feel like the author goes out of his/her way to protect a certain character.
It's not just that the character can't die -- and Twilight can't, really, in Depths (my view on character death is that a character must serve the plot, and is free to die when such is no longer the case, e.g. Taslin) -- but it's that the character can't be hurt. Can't suffer pain, scars, bruising.
I myself am a fan of *mental* anguish and *emotional* turmoil (without going in for the adolescent angst -- I haven't had any adolescent characters, I don't think. Twilight's probably the closest).
If you look at this novel, the ones who've suffered the most, really, are Taslin and Twilight. Let's see:
Taslin: lost her lover, got an acid bath, got the doll-treatment, got hanged, got reanimated (without her hands), had to fight her friends, got hacked down by Twilight, dead.
Twilight: lost her lover, lost her companions, frightened of being seen by *him*, hungry/thirsty, had to mitigate fights and endure insults, had to watch her lover killed again (by Davoren, no less), doubted her own leadership/abilities/sanity, endure Davoren's treason, rejected by Taslin, watched Taslin die, helped but also hurt by Liet, starving/going mad, "lost" Liet and all her companions except the one she'd never connected to (Gargan), watched Slip "die," Liet turned out to be evil, struck by dark magic, assaulted by demons in goliath village, grievous injuries against troll, watch Gargan "die," almost killed by Davoren, have to climb . . . across a wall while half-broken, her own shadow damaged, grievous injuries against Liet, has to KILL Liet (as she has no other way out), then desert. Alive.
So really. I'm just not nice.
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(I'm still laughing by the way).
You're such a cruel woman. I like readers like you.
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That end scene with Slip...that was one of the creepiest denouements I've read in a long time. Again, it all makes sense, and I liked the scene where the truth suddenly "dawns" on Davoren and he starts to unravel the mystery.
That's one of the "Saw" moments in the book. I just loved the ending to that movie and had to have it for my very own.
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Great job, Erik--I had fun. Thanks for the read.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2007 : 15:36:39
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Well met --
I just wanted to thank everyone who's participated in these threads, generally responding so positively. I'm so glad so many people enjoy the book!
I would also like to extend the invitation to write a review of the novel to post on Amazon (the biggest) or any book seller's website. I am a firm believer in the power of reviews and feel they do great credit to the book in the eyes of potential readers. I would be greatly honored if you would consider reviewing the novel!
In reward, I can only make vague, unclear promises about delving into Twilight's past and present deeper, and answering some of the mysteries about her. Whether I write such things or not depends on Wizards, and the success of the novel would have something to do with that decision.
And when is anything about Twilight ever crystal-clear?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2007 : 00:30:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
You're such a cruel woman. I like readers like you.
Why thank you! Sometimes, gory scenes are written (or filmed) in a way that is, well, hilarious!
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That's one of the "Saw" moments in the book. I just loved the ending to that movie and had to have it for my very own.
It was very effective and different--in fact, I would consider the whole book to be "different" but effective, and I definitely applaud that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2007 : 07:03:00
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So let me get this straight . . . Gestal (ahem . . . Gestalt?) kidnapped adventurers, ran them through the ringer, killed the weak, tortured the promising prospects, and generally tried to drive them mad . . . to find a mate? Somehow this makes perfect sense for a priest of Demogorgon (perhaps Gestal just got jealous when he found out his prince was making time with Malconthet).
My personal feeling, and I'm sure its just my feeling, as its not likely that we will find out much about it at this point, is that Liet is the original personality, and that something really bad happened that caused him to need a disassociated, angry, murderous side to do something that he couldn't bring himself to do. Heh . . . "you wouldn't like me when I'm angry," except instead of changing into a giant green monster, he starts murdering people and worshiping the Prince of Demons.
Of course what would really be messed up is if both personalities were divine casters of different, perhaps opposing, divinities/powers. Oh, and I know I was completely off base on my wilder thoughts earlier, but perhaps it was his burgeoning psychic powers that helped to splinter his personality beyond repair . . . eh? Worth a shot?
I'm really glad that Slip ended up being a twisted little thing. She was just creepy enough that I was hoping I didn't misread her. She was almost too halfling to be beleived. I just wonder if Slip will develop another personality herself. Plus the evil halfling with a demonic association just reminds me of Phalse from Azure Bonds (which is a good thing, and yeah, I know he wasn't really a halfling, but he did a really good impression of one).
I kind of like Gargan as the regular companion of Twilight, as he really is so different than she is.
And in the end, its possible that Twilight has never directly met Erevan, and has made up an elaborate history where she was directly his lover and he has directly screwed up her life, a lie that she has told so many times that she might actually have started to beleive it. On top of all of that, who the heck is she really running from? For quite a while I thought Gestal was the one, but since she had no idea who he was, then its clearly someone else searching for her . . . definately fodder for future stories.
I also enjoyed the way that Davoren started to piece together everything that had happened at this point in time (it reminded me of the end of The Sixth Sense a bit).
Good work Erik, and keep pumping out the Realmslore.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2007 : 07:16:49
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Thank you sir, for the kind words, and I'm glad you enjoyed!
About who Twilight is "really" running from -- that's the perfect question to ask. And I assure you -- it *is* indeed someone.
(I hope I can answer your questions some day -- I'm playing my cards close to my chest, here. )
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 05:05:08
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| One of my favorite FR books ever!!! You're the man... or at least, the Madman! This book is a classic indeed! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 21:43:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
One of my favorite FR books ever!!! You're the man... or at least, the Madman! This book is a classic indeed!
What kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed.
Might I press you for a favorite part? Favorite character?
How'd the dream sequences work for you? I know you're an Erevan fan.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2007 : 17:07:13
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Fave character is Fox at Twilight hands down!!! I think she finally embraced Erevan Ilesere as an okay being in her life. The dream sequence was grand as it showed her that Erevan is with her even if she thinks otherwise. I don't have any particular fave scene, as I loved the entire book from page 1 to the very end, but a nasty little scene that is stuck in my mind is when the demon-lizardmen are feasting on the Gold elf's flesh as she semi-lives, and then Twilight bashing her head into a bloody pulp. Severed wrists... not eaten... Slip did that I believe. At least I'd like to believe, lol.  |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2007 : 16:46:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
Fave character is Fox at Twilight hands down!!! I think she finally embraced Erevan Ilesere as an okay being in her life. The dream sequence was grand as it showed her that Erevan is with her even if she thinks otherwise.
Yes indeed -- or at least set her on the path to really *accepting* that. It's one thing to believe, another to accept.
quote:
I don't have any particular fave scene, as I loved the entire book from page 1 to the very end, but a nasty little scene that is stuck in my mind is when the demon-lizardmen are feasting on the Gold elf's flesh as she semi-lives, and then Twilight bashing her head into a bloody pulp. Severed wrists... not eaten... Slip did that I believe. At least I'd like to believe, lol.
Oh yes -- Slip's a naughty little girl.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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TheGato
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2007 : 20:14:46
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Whew. Just finished moments ago. What a read, Erik! I truely enjoyed many aspects of the book.
All of the characters were very interesting, and interesting to read about together. I especially love how you werent afraid to kill off most of the characters. That doesnt happen to often. Especially when Slip gets her eyes melted! Oh man! That was awesome!
I gotta say that through the whole traitor susspect deal, the only two I really considered were Liet and Slip. There were few clues in there where things they did and said just didnt seem right.
One thing that bothered me though, was that I didnt really feel the conection between 'Light and Liet. It felt a little too convenient and forced.
'Light and Garagan truely do make for interesting adventuring companions though. They compliment each other well. Would be really interesting to read more about what his destiny really is with her.
Well done sir, and thank you! Ill be looking forward to reading things by you in the future. |
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Depths of Madness: Chapters 26 - end
