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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 06 May 2004 : 10:18:43
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As where having another Realms shaking event ie the YEar of Rogue Dragons, will we see an FR module to celebrate the event? After all the last RSE WOSQ got a nice fat module in the form of City of the Spider Queen. Yeah I know Wizards have said there not in the module buisness anymore but that hasnt stopped them from doing 2 modules for Eberron this year.
So if they did do another Super module who should write it and Where in the Realms should it be set?
I nominate Eric Boyd
And the module should be set in the Northern Sword Coast, Waterdeep, Savage Frontier region, the Principal bad guys will of cause be Dragons and the Cult of the Dragons.
If WOTC doesnt want to do anr FR module how about Dungeon magazine? Richard Byers said the Dragon guys where interested in publishing stats for the Rage Characters lets see if we can get of a Year of Rogue Dragons module out of Dungeon (Lord knows its been a while since an FR module was published in Dungeon)
Coments?
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2004 : 10:35:06
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Personally, I would welcome any products dealing with The Rage series. I found it more interesting (in terms of gaming possibilities) that the other major realms events going on in Novels (WotSP and Hunters Blades).
As for WOTCs (lame) decision to go with other products instead of the realms....well, TSR tried that move a few times before (anyone remember Mystara, Red Steel, or Birthright  ) and the Realms survived them all....
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Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2004 : 15:13:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Yeah I know Wizards have said there not in the module buisness anymore but that hasnt stopped them from doing 2 modules for Eberron this year.
Yeah, interesting how that has taken place. Perhaps some rules don't apply to Eberron.
quote:
So if they did do another Super module who should write it and Where in the Realms should it be set?
I nominate Eric Boyd
A very fine choice. I'll second that. 
quote:
If WOTC doesnt want to do anr FR module how about Dungeon magazine? Richard Byers said the Dragon guys where interested in publishing stats for the Rage Characters lets see if we can get of a Year of Rogue Dragons module out of Dungeon (Lord knows its been a while since an FR module was published in Dungeon)
I think Dungeon is the more feasible route to go. I'd purchase the issue and I normally don't purchase Dungeon. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2004 : 15:15:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
Personally, I would welcome any products dealing with The Rage series. I found it more interesting (in terms of gaming possibilities) that the other major realms events going on in Novels (WotSP and Hunters Blades).
I actually find the WOTSQ and The Rage both interesting. Although, I felt the adventure for the former event was not as well done as the novels within the series. |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2004 : 02:40:52
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| You know I don't even game anymore,and I have noticed that there hasn't been any modules put out.I didn't know that WoTC quit making them.Why did they stop?I always liked the ones that used to be out there.The old ones like Keep on The Borderlands. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2004 : 03:43:47
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
You know I don't even game anymore,and I have noticed that there hasn't been any modules put out.I didn't know that WoTC quit making them.Why did they stop?I always liked the ones that used to be out there.The old ones like Keep on The Borderlands.
The overall opinion I've got from publisher comments on a few boards is that adventures, especially ones tuned to a specific world, just don't sell well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2004 : 05:38:38
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
The overall opinion I've got from publisher comments on a few boards is that adventures, especially ones tuned to a specific world, just don't sell well.
I've heard that, too. But if that's true, then why did TSR pump out so many modules? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2004 : 05:57:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've heard that, too. But if that's true, then why did TSR pump out so many modules?
Different time, different system, different company. I've heard it from more than one publisher so either it's a mass conspiracy or something that apparently has some basis in fact. |
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D-brane
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
140 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2004 : 06:03:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Yeah I know Wizards have said there not in the module buisness anymore but that hasnt stopped them from doing 2 modules for Eberron this year.
The Eberron adventure modules are seen only as introductions to the setting. Keith Baker has already mentioned that after the second module, the possibility for more Eberron adventures - while still open to debate - seems highly unlikely. This will be especially more so, should the actual campaign setting record poor sales.
Since I'm still unfamiliar with many of the concepts in FR, can anyone please tell me why WotC have decided to stop producing FR adventures?.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2004 : 05:11:18
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| Well that is True Sirius.You could always go to the bookstore,and seea module still sitting around.But is it really a different system???Maybe different worlds,but it's still determined by dice.At least I think it is.Darn I haven't played in so long.But I believe that they didn't sell to well,and were canned. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2004 : 16:51:36
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Different time, different system, different company. I've heard it from more than one publisher so either it's a mass conspiracy or something that apparently has some basis in fact.
Well you are right about those three criteria Sirius, but if WOTC is not interested in tapping the FR fan base that's fine. I can just spend my $$$ on ebay buying up those older mods from 2E that i never got around to getting. For me the whole 1E 2E 3E system debate is not really an issue, I buy FR material for the informative value (not the cruchies as pointed out in a separate scroll ). I dont mind doing conversions, its not that hard and I expect (as was stated by another poster) that long after WOTC has washed its hands of FR, Mr. Greenwood (and others) will find a way to get some decent gaming info out to the faithful realms followers. |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2004 : 17:54:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
Well you are right about those three criteria Sirius, but if WOTC is not interested in tapping the FR fan base that's fine. I can just spend my $$$ on ebay buying up those older mods from 2E that i never got around to getting. For me the whole 1E 2E 3E system debate is not really an issue, I buy FR material for the informative value (not the cruchies as pointed out in a separate scroll ). I dont mind doing conversions, its not that hard and I expect (as was stated by another poster) that long after WOTC has washed its hands of FR, Mr. Greenwood (and others) will find a way to get some decent gaming info out to the faithful realms followers.
I more than understand your sentiment expressed above. I'm glad to see someone else realizes the value in older modules. Sadly, you, and I, are in the minority of current gaming consumers when it comes to valuing the information within a product (the fluff as it's been termed) over the crunch (Prestige Classes galore).
Long after WOTC has washed its hands of FR? I've read more than one poster on other boards wishing WOTC would just license FR to a D20 publisher allowing that company to produce FR items. The thought process being that this move would bring back more gaming items rich in FR content versus the crunch heavy products. Alas, perhaps a topic for another scroll. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2004 : 19:20:51
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| I, too, am trying to track down all the older Realms material that I missed. I've got a large chunk of it already, but I'm still missing some things -- most notably, several modules. Unfortunately, there's still some 3 dozen items I need to complete the stack... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2004 : 21:32:29
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| :) I only need 12 more official TSR sourcebooks/modules, etc, to finish my set. :) Dances around with glee! |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2004 : 00:27:00
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Ack, ive been searching for the very last item for years now to complete my FR collection - H1: Bloodstone Pass! No chance 
Oops, looks like were off topic  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2004 : 00:34:39
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psst, Lord Rad.
Check out www.titangames.com -- they have a copy without a box, but a copy none the less.
ok, back to topic.
Sarta |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2004 : 03:46:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Ack, ive been searching for the very last item for years now to complete my FR collection - H1: Bloodstone Pass! No chance
Oops, looks like were off topic
I remember when I found two of those at a gaming convention in a local dealer's inventory. He gave me both for something like $10. No clue on his part as to how valued they were as he was too wrapped up into Card games and thought people that played RPGs were archaic. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2004 : 15:51:12
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quote:
will we see an FR module to celebrate the event?
'Celebrate'??
Adventures are break-even propositions for d20 publishers, so they're going to be loss-leaders for Wizards of the Coast with its big overheads. But adventures are understood to be vital to a system or setting's long-term growth, hence WotC's provision of them on their site and in Dungeon.
A Year of Rogue Dragons module would limit most buyers to
-- DMs
-- using the Realms
-- playing in the company timeline
-- in the latest year in that timeline
-- with PCs of about the right level.
The Time of Troubles got a sizeable backlash and TSR/WotC tried ever since to make the RSEs the books department deemed necessary ignorable by DMs. Ed's Time-of-Troubles FRE modules are terrific realmslore sources but linear, uninspired scenarios.
With the possible exception of "Prison of the Firebringer"* and "Forest of Blood" which I haven't seen, the 3E Realms adventures in Dungeon have shown little feel for the setting, and those adventures will fail to do their job until Eric Boyd or someone else who actually understands the Realms starts writing them.
I am without H-series modules and am happy to stay that way.
* which I do resent because it makes it even less likely that we'll ever see Ed's authentic Dungeon of the Ruins -- same situation as with the Dungeon of Death (Jason Carl's module) and Durlag's Tower (Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast). |
Edited by - Faraer on 09 May 2004 15:55:09 |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2004 : 19:30:54
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Well, I think you could argue the opposite case…How many “Official world running” DMs buy the generic mods and books? Maybe they (WOTC) figure there are more DMs running their own custom built worlds…. I can’t say as I don’t have figures on this. But…
I think it was this same thinking that led TSR to flood the market with its series of “generic” books on practically every class and subject that was not world specific. But I can say I am a negative of the type of buyer described above. The worlds I ran (FR and Ravenloft) dictated the products I would buy….i.e. things with the label of FR and Ravenloft. After 2E was released, I have not purchased any so called “generic” books outside of “core” books. They usually have little of relevance and no history so I see them as a waste of money (but that is just me).
CotSQ is a great mod for War of the Spider Queen. It ties in with the events but does not replay them like the Avatar Trilogy of mods. BUT, when WOTC is charging a good $30.00 for a “module” (COTSQ) that is more like a manual, I can see why they are losing money. But I personally think they could cut back allot of the full color artwork (as great as it all is) and cut the size down. COTSQ is the near equivalent of the old Giants / Drow / Demonweb saga from 1st edition. (All of which penned as Greyhawk mods but usable in other places). A bigger mod is harder and more time consuming to convert to a generic world. Go back to making smaller quality mods in the $7 to $10 range and I think you might see more sales. I think many DMs are just saying “I don’t need to be paying sourcebook prices for a MOD”. So why would a non-realms DM even consider that?
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Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2004 : 04:03:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
CotSQ is a great mod for War of the Spider Queen. It ties in with the events but does not replay them like the Avatar Trilogy of mods. BUT, when WOTC is charging a good $30.00 for a “module” (COTSQ) that is more like a manual, I can see why they are losing money. But I personally think they could cut back allot of the full color artwork (as great as it all is) and cut the size down. COTSQ is the near equivalent of the old Giants / Drow / Demonweb saga from 1st edition. (All of which penned as Greyhawk mods but usable in other places). A bigger mod is harder and more time consuming to convert to a generic world. Go back to making smaller quality mods in the $7 to $10 range and I think you might see more sales. I think many DMs are just saying “I don’t need to be paying sourcebook prices for a MOD”. So why would a non-realms DM even consider that?
I totally agree with this statement. Their sales would improve if they lowered the prices a bit. A few years ago, I was making less money and yet I was always willing to drop $20 on a sourcebook or boxed set. Today, with more money (not much, but a little more! ), I'm not as willing to spend that money on a sourcebook that costs $30 or $35. $20 or $25, yes. More than that, I'm gonna think about it.
It's not that I'm more concious of my spending, it's that I'm not as sure that I'm getting my money's worth, especially with the move towards more crunchy stuff. The old TSR boxed sets seemed to sell well enough without having lots of new proficiencies and kits... (For those who came on with 3E, proficiencies and kits are the forerunners of feats and PrC's) |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2004 : 07:19:47
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WotC is in an unusual spot. By allowing the D20 and open gaming licenses they have on the one hand helped reinvigorate a flagging role playing market (which is a very good thing), but on the other hand allowed a lot of competition to spring up for their non-core books to compete with.
None of these competitors have the sort of overhead costs that WotC has. Also, WotC feels that they have to provide incredibly high production value in order to create effective branding in their non-core lines such as Forgotten Realms. While on the one hand this leads to beautiful books with some absolutely great artwork, on the other hand it leads to high price tags.
High cost items with large markups mean that less books need to be sold to generate a specific amount of revenue. I'm sure they have run models to calculate whether a product with a lower retail cost can sell enough copies to generate the same amount of revenue. Unfortunately, it appears that this has not been the case.
Perhaps if the market itself changes so that people are less likely to drop 30+ dollars on a source book they will again look at the option of creating less expensive products. However, with Hasbro at the helm, this may not be the case and it could lead to disasterous results.
Personally, I'd love to see them run another experiment like CotSQ. CotSQ was a simply beautiful book with a high price tag on it. It did not sell like they hoped, so they decided to not repeat it. I feel it would be wonderful if they could create a less expensive way of branding a line of books such as TSR did with the Volo's Guides and see how one does. It would need to be a larger print run in order to generate the same sort of revenue as a book like PGtF can, but perhaps the lower retail price would encourage more purchases.
Sarta, who hates to apply marketing to his hobby, but occasionally can't help it. |
Edited by - Sarta on 10 May 2004 07:22:15 |
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Lysander
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2004 : 16:07:25
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I remember when I found two of those at a gaming convention in a local dealer's inventory. He gave me both for something like $10. No clue on his part as to how valued they were as he was too wrapped up into Card games and thought people that played RPGs were archaic.
Sorry for my first post being slightly off topic, but 'ere I go...
Sirius, I think you have it spot on. "[P]eople that played RPGs were archaic." My first and most lasting impression of the WotC/Hasbro "offerings" are the spawn of crossing Magic: The Gathering with a console game system Sure, there are some ideas that came out, but I duely beat them on the head with my 2E:S&P book until they submitted, and house-ruled 'em. 
The lack of modules - generic or otherwise - follows on from this premise. The new-ish Player's Guide for FR sounds like a bunch of useless (or marginally useful 3.0 to 3.5) re-writing as opposed to something truly worth the cost. Why do I think they did that - they re-write the system when they develop a "new" card PC/Console game.
I wish they did come up with new modules rather than sourcebooks. If they want to advance the calendar through sourcebooks, quit trying to reinvent the wheel and just give us the update!
Lysander |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2004 : 00:40:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Lysander
I wish they did come up with new modules rather than sourcebooks. If they want to advance the calendar through sourcebooks, quit trying to reinvent the wheel and just give us the update!
Lysander
I would be quite happy to see a semi-regular web enhancement that advances the timeline a little and allows those who don't read all of the novels to follow the major storylines. What's more, it could also include plenty of smaller happenings across the Realms, providing many plothooks to be developed. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2004 : 04:37:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I would be quite happy to see a semi-regular web enhancement that advances the timeline a little and allows those who don't read all of the novels to follow the major storylines. What's more, it could also include plenty of smaller happenings across the Realms, providing many plothooks to be developed.
It will be very interesting to see how WOTC summarizes future timeline advancements for the Realms as a whole. Will it be in a website as you suggest? A sourcebook like PGTF? Or just not done at all within the foreseeable future?
I don't see a website update happening for a couple of reasons.
First, not everyone purchasing FR products knows or chooses to go online for such information. Secondly, I just don't see WOTC giving out such fluff information, that they know is desired by many Realms fans like myself, for free on the Internet. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2004 : 04:38:49
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And just to try and stay on topic....
I really don't think WOTC will be publishing A Year of the Rogue Dragon module. However, is anyone making plans as of yet to implement an adventure for his/her group set within events for this year? |
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AutoSponge
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 20:01:58
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Why not a premium subscription site? Using the porn model (they pioneered everything on the Net anyway), give enough free material, access to non-member forums, and the promise of more to get people to pay $3.95 a month for the site. Anyone with a Dragon subscription could get a discout or lump them together on one bill (paid through internet charge reciept like an MMORPG does).
Assuming they use the existing architecture and leverage existing server/programmer resources, you could fund the project very easily. Pay the realms authors 'by-the-page' like newspaper writers and have them answer questions in a moderated forum. The more active they are, the more money they get.
As for WotC, the more the Realms writers are intrigued by the idea and working together to make truly great lore, the more people will join. Of course there will be places for fan-based stuff, but there could also be the hint at possible collaberation within the community--something that could make it into an upcoming Realms product.
While WoTC has shown some visionary prospects in gaming, some of their business models are antiquated based on what's making money in 2004. |
Edited by - AutoSponge on 19 May 2004 20:04:19 |
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A module for the Year of Rogue Dragon?
