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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 04:58:16
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Arena of War which is suppose to be a sort of 4e/5e mesh, that uses forgotten realms as the "setting" and suppose to be revealing some things dealing with the sundering.
So they just released some info on facebook, showing pictures of a dragonborn fighter, So I think it is safe to assume, that they are keeping that race in (cool makes money) , as a sign that we are going to have them after the sundering.
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 05:09:16
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| Even if their current lands were to return home, it wouldn't make sense for all of them to get beamed over too. I personally hope Tymanther ends up a mix of what is there now and what comes back after having been gone for a century (and presumably now changed a little). |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 05:10:52
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| eh, we lost the old style of planestouched when we got the new versions. Logic does not always mean it was noticed. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 05:48:11
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| I like the dragonborn, so I'd love to see them stay. With the way the Sundering shakes things up, they probably won't have an empire anymore. But they are fierce warriors, and seem to stay neutral in issues of faith and politics, so they can fit in anywhere. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 06:01:30
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| <=<, I like the fact that something other then human or elf has a damn empire. For something that is literately the dumping ground of the universe, faerun is pretty damn human centric. |
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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 07:12:17
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| I wouldn't be surprised if dragonborn are found scattered throughout the Realms like nationless race with no settlement, similar to how gnolls exist for exemple. |
Yan
Playtester |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 07:28:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Plaguescarred
I wouldn't be surprised if dragonborn are found scattered throughout the Realms like nationless race with no settlement, similar to how gnolls exist for exemple.
From the way that Wizbro has painted the picture, this is what it sounds like they are intending. Any dragonborn not 'at home' (for those who have not already emigrated elsewhere) when Tymanther and Laerakond (and the other 'Abeiran' lands) get returned to Abeir will be permanent residents of the Realms, willing or not.
Which is understandable, really. While I admit to disliking dragonborn (and never allow them as player characters), simply removing each and every one from the Realms would be both unrealistic and silly.
- OMH |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 13:10:17
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5.0 will introduce the 'Dragondead', which will be SOOOOO much kewler the Dragonborn.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 15:09:30
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| As I rather like the Dragonborn myself I am glad to hear that they wont be completely eliminated from the realms. It was good to read about a truly non human empire like theirs in the novels. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 16:28:34
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| They should change into Skyrim dragonborn, or die of dracorage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 17:02:26
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And get rid of their boobs.
Stupid... just plain stupid... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 17:53:51
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Bahamut's real dragonborn are still tapping their claws in utter distaste.
They all need to port back to Abeir, along with their shoehorned-in nations.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 19 Sep 2013 17:58:00 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 18:03:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Just rename, please, that's all I'm asking, WotC...
Thats really the easiest thing in the world to change.
When they first arrived, they looked just like FR's already-established Dragonborn, hence Faerūnians calling them that (and they just went along with it). Now that some time has passed, they should have taught the locals the difference and their real name, or some new name created for them (once those same locals found out how harshly 'true dragonborn' take to their misusage).
As for the terminology being used in the 4eFRCG (in the Retruned Abeir secton), well... we just play on the established FR trope that all of that was written by a Faerūnian scholar, who used the terminology he was most Familiar with. Now that many of the language-barriers have broken down, this should no longer be the case (like us calling many northern American native tribes 'Eskimos', which was never a word in their language - they are the Inuit). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Sep 2013 18:06:58 |
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thenightgaunt
Acolyte
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 19:19:45
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Eh, I hope to see them go or take a back seat to the events in the Realms. While interesting races and strange locals have always been a part of the Realms, there was just something about the Dragonborn that rubbed me the wrong way. It might be how they reminded me of the races from the broken 3.5 book Dragon Magic that came out right before the transition to 4th or it might just be that they had the misfortune to be introduced along with the Spellplague and the horde of other 4th ed changes that ended up turning my stomach.
Either way they leave a bad taste in my mouth and I'd like to see them go. Or I could just not let them show up in my home game. Either way, no worries. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2013 : 04:35:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Bahamut's real dragonborn are still tapping their claws in utter distaste.
They all need to port back to Abeir, along with their shoehorned-in nations.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2013 : 04:37:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
5.0 will introduce the 'Dragondead', which will be SOOOOO much kewler the Dragonborn.
Awwwww man......I guess I have to wait for 5.5 for the Shadow Dragondead |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2013 : 05:48:59
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| Brimstone's DragonDead |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2013 : 12:01:12
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Not a big fan of Dragonborn, never used and maybe will never have them in my Realms. Too much like Dragon-kin, which I intend to use sparingly, as supporters of my Cult of the Dragon villains. I understand those who like them, but dragonborn are an "Abeiration" to me.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2013 : 13:09:00
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If I were to use them at all, I would use them with the same caveat I use the old/new tieflings - there are 1st generation dragonspawn (half-breeds), and then there is a single group that has been of mixed blood for so long they have become a separate (and new) race unto themselves (just like how we plan to explain the differences between the two types of tieflings).
So you'd have dragonborn and dragonspawn - which mechanically can be exactly the same thing - but one is an actual race at this point. This isn't really something new - we have examples of this with half-elves (Yuirwood half-elves) and half-orcs (the population of Palischuk). I don't think I would use them this way, but its easy for me to just picture a 'land on some other continent' where these things have a nation, far away from my campaign. I don't need to remove them, I can just ignore them. If I get rid of them completely, then I may loose an opportunity to use them later, if something interesting arises (like a canon storyline).
We should not be guilty of what the 4e designers were - using subtractive techniques to alter the setting. Lore should always be additive, because it gives us more options.
All core half-breeds should eventually become races unto themselves. We still don't know what ever happened to the Lings. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2013 : 15:39:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
We should not be guilty of what the 4e designers were - using subtractive techniques to alter the setting. Lore should always be additive, because it gives us more options.
Ah, but it's not subtracting anything if their disappearance (along with Abeir going *poof*) solves an errant paradox created by the first Sundering. Solving [1 + (-1)] results in a zero sum, and all is well with temporospatial reality again.
The lore is still additive, there is no actual retcon invovled, it's just paradoxical because there was a rift in time as well as space. As dragonborn and Abeir (and all things Abeirran with them) disappear from existence, the paradox AO needed has fulfilled itself.
And if you want to use a dragonborn, you still have them - it's just that you'll be using Bahamut's original dragonborn which are part of Toril's history anyway.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 20 Sep 2013 15:42:51 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2013 : 16:08:47
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Guess what? I never liked Bahamut's either, and I never used them.
Thus, it really doesn't matter to me, AT ALL, which version we get. To me, a 'Dragonborn' is just a human-dragon hybrid (half-dragon), and the Bahamut stuff is just as much poo-poo as the 4e version (IMO). How they were created is irrelevant - I will make-up my own story for them if I have to. I do not need a half dozen versions of 'dragonman'. Personally, my favorite version is the Khaasta - thats the one I will go with.
I guess my position is different then yours because I simply do not care about the story that is the Realms any longer - I only care about useful game material. I will miss the Realms, but in my mind, it is already dead... just bring on more D&D and slap whatever world-fluff onto it you want. If I like it, I'll buy it, and if not, I won't. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Sep 2013 16:12:37 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2013 : 16:15:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Guess what? I never liked Bahamut's either, and I never used them.
Well, yeah... me either. I thought they were super-dorky back then, and just made worse with boobs and a magical new twin planet.
That said, at least the original ones were kind of interesting and fit well into the lore at the time.
quote:
Thus, it really doesn't matter to me, AT ALL, which version we get. To me, a 'Dragonborn' is just a human-dragon hybrid (half-dragon), and the Bahamut stuff is just as much poo-poo as the 4e version (IMO). How they were created is irrelevant - I will make-up my own story for them if I have to. I do not need a half dozen versions of 'dragonman'. Personally, my favorite version is the Khaasta - thats the one I will go with.
I guess my position is different then yours because I simply do not care about the story that is the Realms any longer - I only care about useful game material. I will miss the Realms, but in my mind, it is already dead... just bring on more D&D and slap whatever world-fluff onto it you want. If I like it, I'll buy it, and if not, I won't. There's very little chance any of the new storylines will catch my imagination, unless they write novels set in the past. Anything that happened after 1375 DR is something I do not care about, and don't see myself EVER caring about.
Hey now, don't go giving up on the Realms, or your idea. Because as weird and paradoxical as it is, it's a pretty brilliant solution for re-setting specific things without doing an actual retcon.
Right now, running with your idea, it is actually possible to do a reboot (or a partial reboot) to any time period you want, and STILL not have it be a retcon. It's just AO doing his overgod magic, patching up and fixing the timeline. Literally anything is possible because of this, and that's pretty genius, Markus.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2013 : 16:48:44
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It's no secret I'm not big on dragons and everything in between, so I'd be happy if the redundant race of dragonborn gets erased from the face of Toril. The only time I managed to "tolerate" (to some degree) their existence was when Richard wrote about them. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2013 : 03:56:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
It's no secret I'm not big on dragons and everything in between, so I'd be happy if the redundant race of dragonborn gets erased from the face of Toril. The only time I managed to "tolerate" (to some degree) their existence was when Richard wrote about them.
You really don't like dragons at all? Really? I've just never met anyone who didn't like dragons.  |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2013 : 04:15:33
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I was always a fan of dragonborn boobs. Nothing says sexy then scale covered boobs.
Oh and the Dragonborn is now in the playtest. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2013 : 06:01:27
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| Yep, suffice to say I'm glad they're staying and probably featured as a core race in the PHB. Since Abeir is staying in my realms, it saves me trouble of homebrewing my own DB content. |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2013 : 07:03:44
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| I have mixed feelings about the dragonborn. I've always loved dragons (that's what drew me to D&D in the first place), and I actually like the 'dragonman' concept a lot (I even created one for a sci-fi game I GMed). But I actually prefer half-dragons to dragonborn, for reasons even I don't understand. And, in my opinion, dragonborn females shouldn't have boobs (there a reptilian race, for gods' sake!). Anyways, that's my two cents worth, and I apologize if my opinion offends anyone. |
Edited by - Drustan Dwnhaedan on 21 Sep 2013 07:04:11 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2013 : 07:24:17
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| As far as Dragon-boobs go, its just a cosmetic thing and should be used or discarded like any other physical feature for any character. Besides, how often would such a thing even come up? Same goes with Tieflings. Some like subtle hints of infernal influences while others (like myself) would prefer a Prince of Darkness look from the movie Legend. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2013 : 16:40:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
I was always a fan of dragonborn boobs. Nothing says sexy then scale covered boobs.
Once you go scaly, you'll come back daily?
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2013 : 20:33:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
It's no secret I'm not big on dragons and everything in between, so I'd be happy if the redundant race of dragonborn gets erased from the face of Toril. The only time I managed to "tolerate" (to some degree) their existence was when Richard wrote about them.
You really don't like dragons at all? Really? I've just never met anyone who didn't like dragons.
They're just bloated lizards. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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I think the dragonborn are here to stay
