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Farlaak
Acolyte
4 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 09:05:26
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Now when I first heard that amazon was going to start selling fan fiction I though the world was going to end, but the I picked up Realms of the Underdark and started wondering. This could be good for rpg tie in type books. Don't get me wrong if this happened there will be a lot of Jalaxle, Drizzt, gay erotica, but if I have learned on thing being part of a role playing community its that we are a creative bunch, and most of us are, in the very least passable writers. This could offer a new outlet for d&d, and may bring some new life to dying or dead rpg franchises. Using beloved characters is a bad idea, but to use the world is, in my opinion, very different. I don't know if this is already a thread, I wold like to read opinions.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 12:28:10
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| I don't really understand this - how can it possibly be legal for anyone to sell their own works based in some else's IP? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 13:44:23
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I think -- and I could be wrong -- that there is actually some sort of licensing arrangement involved. I believe the author has to okay it, and I'm also sure they get a cut.
At least, that's all been my impression. I don't do fanfiction*, so I've not looked into it.
*My last contact with fanfiction was years ago, when I hung out with a group of people online who liked finding really bad fanfiction and giving it the Mystery Science Theater 3000 treatment. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Aug 2013 13:46:11 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 14:42:01
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Not really a fan of fan fiction. Though this came to my attention when one of my students requested that I edit his work. Wooly has the gist of it: the author and the publisher have to OK it, and yes, they get to have a cut. With Amazon, they provide you the general topic and/or the setting or characters that you can and cannot use.
And if luck is with you and they like and choose to make a movie script out of it, they get all the glory and money. No thanks, no dime for you. Wonderful, right? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 15:13:21
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Remember, it was a fan fiction for Twilight that gave us 50 shades of gray .
Just think, in your fan fiction , Elimister could have been a bad boy :P |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 15:30:31
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50 shades of brimstone, closing to an Amazon store near your (I kid).
.On a more serious note in the era of porn parody movies this was invetiable. Heck there are already pay sites that offer fan fiction.
Aa to Drizzt and Jalaxle, I don't keep up with slash, but this is the second time I've seen those two paired togther lately. Is there subtext from the novels I'm missing. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 15:52:21
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Just slash? I think I saw a couple of yaoi featuring them. Not sure when and where . . . but it is no surprise as the fans’ minds often run wild. And mind you, most of those make fan fic yaoi are usually not gays but women. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 15:52:44
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| I seriously doubt RAS would agree to allow fan fic regarding his characters to be written by someone else...especially the Drizzt/Jarlaxle combo (b/c there is NOT a subtext for that gyor, quite the opposite, in fact-I must admit that I quit reading Drizzt books a few years ago). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 15:54:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
50 shades of brimstone, closing to an Amazon store near your (I kid).
.On a more serious note in the era of porn parody movies this was invetiable. Heck there are already pay sites that offer fan fiction.
Aa to Drizzt and Jalaxle, I don't keep up with slash, but this is the second time I've seen those two paired togther lately. Is there subtext from the novels I'm missing.
There is no subtext at all from the novels. Of course, there are some people who are intent upon seeing sexual subtext everywhere, so you may get different answers.
In one thread a long time ago, there was a question of whether Jarlaxle was bisexual. Given his hedonistic tendencies and constant need to seek new forms of excitement, it's certainly possible that he has experimented. Some posters were downright livid at the idea, which makes me wish RAS would throw it in a novel. Now with Drizzt per se, but whoever catches his eye. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 18:25:53
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Some time before the Harry Potter series was concluded, the group of us that did the Mystery Science Theater 3000 thing did one where the author had Draco Malfoy getting Harry Potter pregnant. The premise was that the Death Eaters were trying to bring Voldemort back, and they decided getting Harry pregnant was the way to do it.
And believe it or not, that was far from the most disturbing one we did! I cringe to think of some of the other stuff Tina and Mei-chan found for us to MST3K.
So yeah, I'm sure there's a lot worse for Drizzt/Jarlaxle or Drizzt/Artemis or even Elminster/Manshoon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Aug 2013 18:28:56 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 19:01:10
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| There is mention in the new Companions novel of a woman 'belonging' to Jarlaxle so he's hetero at the least and possibly bisexual. But, as stated already, there is no proof of it that I'm aware. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 19:43:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
There is mention in the new Companions novel of a woman 'belonging' to Jarlaxle so he's hetero at the least and possibly bisexual. But, as stated already, there is no proof of it that I'm aware.
Trust me, to some fanfic writers, nothing about a character will get in the way of the pairing the writer wants.
I once saw a fanfic that had Batman dating Sailor Venus. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 20:43:49
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If WotC were to participate in the Amazon Worlds thing, it would involve WotC entering into a license agreement with Amazon wherein they agree to allow fan fiction written in one of their settings (such as the Realms) to be published in exchange for suitable compensation (it could be a percentage of sales, a hefty flat licensing fee, or--most likely--a combination of the two). Since the IP and all its characters (possibly with some exceptions*) is owned by WotC, they legally owe no money or even notification to the authors.
(*I couldn't comment on other authors' exact contracts. It's entirely possible RAS owns Drizzt, for instance, or that Ed owns Elminster. And there's certainly a legal case to be made about intellectual property, etc., etc. That's beyond the scope of my point.)
All that said, it's entirely possible that WotC might make an agreement that would not allow would-be Amazon Worlds authors to use signature characters, and it's also entirely possible that any author (such as RAS over Drizzt, Ed over Elminster, etc) would raise objections that could get such a piece taken down. There are lots of good reasons not to use someone else's signature character: 1) it's bound to be inaccurate, because no one knows that character like the author, and a corollary, 2) it will inevitably take away from your book because you don't know the character, 3) it's disrespectful and will make fans of the actual author HATE you, and the list goes on.
As for Jarlaxle subtext . . . well, it's possible. There are certain scenes where an argument could be made. I don't think a definitive "there is no subtext whatsoever" statement is quite fair. I'd prefer to leave that to RAS to determine.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 21:27:22
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quote:
I once saw a fanfic that had Batman dating Sailor Venus.
Let's see, how do I respond to this...     |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 23:45:03
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quote:
Originally posted by LilianviatenThere is no subtext at all from the novels.
Well, Dahlia seems to think otherwise, at least she made a remark in that direction in Neverwinter |
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Farlaak
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 00:50:53
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| Okay when I said it might be a good thing I didn't mean fan fiction in the strictest sense of the world. What I meant was amateur writer who say takes Waterdeep, paladin, and Torm and makes a story, I don't know the steps to become a forgotten realms author, but I was kind of thinking of books tbat aren't canon but still enjoyable. It is still fan fiction technically. As to who gets paid from this I have no idea. I am having problems explaining myself, but amazon world is a confusing idea. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 01:11:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
There is no subtext at all from the novels.
I also heard Xena: Warrior Princess and WWE Professional Wrestling have no subtext whatsoever.
And the word "subtext" itself certainly isn't a naughty anagram.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 14:25:15
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I think Elminster has ended up in female enough times to count as transgendered :D
Which shows that people who think Elminster is just Gandolf in the Realms need to look past the beard.
But if Elminister hooked up with a dude, I don't think it'd Manshoon. Maybe the God Azuth when he comes back to life. |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 14:38:46
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| No no, it certainly would be Volo! |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 14:44:06
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Elminster’s tastes lean toward the “exotic.” So maybe a dragon. How about Tchazzar? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 21:57:25
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| I have already heard of this on another fan-site (on the Technodrome forums, where I'm also a member) and as I understand it, the author of the fan-fic gets a small percentage of the royalties, but the IP owners and amazon get a larger share collectively. I forget the actual percentages, but the writer DOES get compensation and credit for the work. There are some authors/publishers who won't allow their works to be used, of course (I know that Anne Rice doesn't allow her characters to be used on fanfiction.net, so she might be one who wouldn't) but for the most part, the doors are wide open on this. I have actually been considering getting in on this, as it would be a great way to test the waters for some of my tales. And doing fan-fis is certainly fun, but getting PAID for it would be even better!! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 22:59:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*My last contact with fanfiction was years ago, when I hung out with a group of people online who liked finding really bad fanfiction and giving it the Mystery Science Theater 3000 treatment.
Instead of the Forgotten Realms and Ed Greenwood, I take it that that was more like the Forgotten Realms and just plain ol' Ed Wood?
As far as Jarlaxle subtext, remember that he used to wear garish rainbow-colored garb and an open-front vest that constantly showed off his abs. This is not the behavior of a conservative hetero male, that's for sure.
I think that RAS has heard the fan's interpretations of Jar possibly being stereotypically "gay" and subsequently altered Jar's manner of dress and shown him flirting exclusively with females. Yes, he still wears the garish plumed hat, but he covers up everything else, now.
Of course, that still does not take away the fact that in most of the stories, Jarlaxle primarily associates with males, and some are determined to see homoerotic tendencies in such tales, regardless.
I have no real problem with fanfic, in general. But I don't see WOTC allowing people to make any profit off of it. If you want to make $ writing for the Realms, then you should go through channels, and make sure that it fits in with whatever direction the design team is headed in. Otherwise, just do it exclusively for unpaid fun. When it's for $, then it becomes a business, and AFAIK the publisher owns all rights to that side of things. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2013 : 00:25:29
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Actually, I should think it would be a good way for WotC to look for new talent. Keep an eye on the popular fanfics, make sure they are the kind of thing WotC would like (so no BattleMechs in the Realms or Laeral/Alustriel pairings, for example), and then offer the most promising authors a shot at published fiction.
It's kind of the same model anime companies in the US use with fansubs: see which ones are popular, and then license the popular titles for legal distribution.
Of course, a lot of the fanfics out there are far from being anything approaching professional quality, but there could be some undiscovered nuggets out there waiting to be found.
I never read a lot of FR fanfics (most of them focused on characters I wasn't interested in reading about), but I did enjoy one I read that had several of the girls from Sailor Moon wind up in the Realms... Unfortunately, if that one was ever completed, I wasn't able to find it again. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
573 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2013 : 01:06:31
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It would be really cool if WotC would buy such stories, or periodically sweep down from on high and rubber stamp a story as "CANON"
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*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2013 : 05:05:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, I should think it would be a good way for WotC to look for new talent. Keep an eye on the popular fanfics, make sure they are the kind of thing WotC would like (so no BattleMechs in the Realms or Laeral/Alustriel pairings, for example), and then offer the most promising authors a shot at published fiction.
It's kind of the same model anime companies in the US use with fansubs: see which ones are popular, and then license the popular titles for legal distribution.
Of course, a lot of the fanfics out there are far from being anything approaching professional quality, but there could be some undiscovered nuggets out there waiting to be found.
I never read a lot of FR fanfics (most of them focused on characters I wasn't interested in reading about), but I did enjoy one I read that had several of the girls from Sailor Moon wind up in the Realms... Unfortunately, if that one was ever completed, I wasn't able to find it again.
Publishers have to be careful that they don't put themselves into a position in which a fanfic writer accuses them of stealing their idea/story. So publishers generally refuse to accept submissions outside of specified time periods, and there are certain rules about all that.
This all sounds too open-ended to me. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2013 : 06:04:01
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, I should think it would be a good way for WotC to look for new talent. Keep an eye on the popular fanfics, make sure they are the kind of thing WotC would like (so no BattleMechs in the Realms or Laeral/Alustriel pairings, for example), and then offer the most promising authors a shot at published fiction.
It's kind of the same model anime companies in the US use with fansubs: see which ones are popular, and then license the popular titles for legal distribution.
Of course, a lot of the fanfics out there are far from being anything approaching professional quality, but there could be some undiscovered nuggets out there waiting to be found.
I never read a lot of FR fanfics (most of them focused on characters I wasn't interested in reading about), but I did enjoy one I read that had several of the girls from Sailor Moon wind up in the Realms... Unfortunately, if that one was ever completed, I wasn't able to find it again.
Publishers have to be careful that they don't put themselves into a position in which a fanfic writer accuses them of stealing their idea/story. So publishers generally refuse to accept submissions outside of specified time periods, and there are certain rules about all that.
This all sounds too open-ended to me.
Oh, I'm quite aware of concerns like that... But I should think that forcing authors who want to share their fanfic to sign an agreement waiving certain rights would neatly cover that.
It's obviously not that great a concern for companies already allowing this. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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kindle worlds and forgotten realms
