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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 11:07:43
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Has anyone else noticed that in almost any novel featuring clerics (normal clerics) only the evil ones have formidable magic? There are dozens of spell-hurling archmages, both good and evil, but all of the offensive-or any powerful- clerical magic seems to be used by evil priests. I'm not talking about offensive domain spells, just the normal ones.
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But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Trafaldi
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 13:28:03
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| The good priests can probably use them it is just a matter of religion. Such as the more evil ones want to bring havoc to the world so the outritght destroy things. While the goodly ones want to protect the world so they use more defensive spells against the evil ones. |
Some believe there is something more after death, if you really want to find out... go kill yourself and stop pestering me. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 17:58:02
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Also, if you take a look at the spell descriptors, a lot of them are of the Necromantic school. Now, how many clerics of Selune and her ilk are going to be slinging Necromantic spells left and right?  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2004 : 02:30:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Also, if you take a look at the spell descriptors, a lot of them are of the Necromantic school. Now, how many clerics of Selune and her ilk are going to be slinging Necromantic spells left and right?
oh tons Bookwyrm, tons! |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2004 : 18:37:55
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| Yes so Evil is better then god. |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2004 : 20:07:31
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| Well, it has a lot to do, I think, with the way clerics behave. Generally speaking, a cleric chooses a specific deity due to their own beliefs being in line with those of the deity/church of said deity. Thesefore the actions of the cleric will be in line with the deity's core ethos, which when you consider most goodly deities tend not to be incredibly war-like, would mean their clerics probably do not use powerful destructive spells. Also, realize if you are a good cleric you probably spend your time healing the masses, as opposed to blasting your enemies into tiny particles. It also helps I think that evil clerics are the most often featured in various Realmsian fiction, where as I think good clerics most often fill out the supporting cast. Still, I understand you position, I would love to see the good clerics dish out the divine retribution, but I suppose its more fun for the authors to write about the evil ones. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2004 : 20:37:55
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| Thats true Edain, you don't expect a Selunite to hurl spells of destruction, but it would be expected of, oh, say a Talassan. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2004 : 22:29:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyric
Yes so Evil is better then god.
i think u meant good |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 03:27:47
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| My thanks, sages. But even ignoring offensive spells, and the fact that not all clerics reach high level, shouldn't there be stronger healing magic? It always seems that characters-at least good-aligned ones-usually only recieve weak healing. This is especially strange as there are so many mages hurling hugely powerful battle spells, despite their high level. Clerics don't even have to learn the spells they use(except for the obvious leveling up needed.) so it seems that there should be far more of this magic. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 05:21:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyric
Yes so Evil is better then god.
I'm pretty sure God would have a few things to say to you on that.
What do you mean? There're ten basic healing spells, each more potent depending on its spell level, plus others that are more specific in their targets. Sure, that's small compared to the number of offensive spells, but how many versions of healing spells can you do? Are you wanting a spell to cure 20d20+20 points of damage?  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 20:12:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Sourcemaster2
My thanks, sages. But even ignoring offensive spells, and the fact that not all clerics reach high level, shouldn't there be stronger healing magic?
healing magic can become very powerful, the 6th lv spell 'heal' completely heals the recipient of all wounds! very handy |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 20:29:08
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| In part i think the reason goodly celrics do not throw around high level spels is that the authors tend to portray the process a bit different than most envision it. When we say a deity grants a priest a spell, its more like when we say a wizard memorizes a spell, we do not really look at it as granting, where as author often portray much more hands on, in that if the deity does not like the recipient of the heal spell, the spell will not work. Honestly, I kinda see why it has bene done that way, and I can get behind. Also I think healing is so weak in books often because it can screw dramatic effect. There are times when an author wants to kill a character for effect, but what the point if the cleric just goes *pokes* "LIVE!!!!" and the character comes back t life, it completely trivializes death, and also pain. Whats more heroic than the wounded hero fighting on in the face of overwhelming ect., but how trivial does that become if the nearest priest goes "HEAL" and the hero is fine. Sometimes you cannot simply use game mechanics, especially in books, there has to be a story-telling component or the book is just paper with words on it. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 20:34:30
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| i agree. authors write that way also 4 more realisticality. in gaming it doesnt have 2 be realistic, u heal 2 make ur character still live. in a novel the author wants it 2 be more dramatic and realistic so they tend 2 steer away from massive healing. speaking as a hope 2 be future author myself, i have done the same in my book i am writing |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 20:37:35
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| Which novels are these with priestly healing less effective than in the D&D rules? |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 20:47:07
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Honestly the whole issue of clerics does not come up much, simply because they are not terribly popular protagonists. The only non-Drow cleric in a major role I can think of is Cadderly, and he does not set a very good example since he was insanely powerful. I am probably forgetting some, but most I think cleric fill the supporting roles. I think the worst example of clerical ineffectiveness in the Cormyr Saga wherein clerics show up a lot, but really fail to do much constructive at all throughout the three books. Not that the War Wizards perform much better against the Ghauzneths.
Yes, far too much magical ineptness is Cormyr's recent history, that is all the Abraxus Affair business and then the Ghauzneth crisis. It all casts a bad pall over Cormyr’s magical tradition.
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Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
Edited by - Edain Shadowstar on 29 Jan 2004 03:40:01 |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 03:56:24
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| I agree with you about the whole *POKE POKE "LIVE!"* thing. It totally ruins the dramatic effect. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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clerical magic
