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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Feb 2013 : 23:14:50
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I just stumbled upon something that I have read many times, but somehow never really got hold of what it said.
"... Reading even one nether scroll offers considerable insight into the Art. Any character studying one immediately gains one level in an arcane spellcasting class of her choice. (That is, her experience point total is set to the midpoint for her new level.)"
The quote is taken from Lost Empires of Faerûn.
If reading one gives one level then surely reading all fifty must give fifty levels... Right?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2013 : 23:29:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I just stumbled upon something that I have read many times, but somehow never really got hold of what it said.
"... Reading even one nether scroll offers considerable insight into the Art. Any character studying one immediately gains one level in an arcane spellcasting class of her choice. (That is, her experience point total is set to the midpoint for her new level.)"
The quote is taken from Lost Empires of Faerûn.
If reading one gives one level then surely reading all fifty must give fifty levels... Right?
It's not addressed in canon. I'd be inclined to say no, though. One scroll gives you the amazing insight, but other scrolls would depend and refine that insight.
If I was DM'ing and someone got a hold of all the scrolls and sat down to study them all, I'd give between 5-10 levels, but a host of other bonuses, like free feats, tougher to resist spells, better ability to dispel even the ability to warp/redirect someone else's spells... Enough to make them way powerful and the envy of all mages, but not enough to be able to take on Larloch or Azuth.
That said, I'd more likely not even use the scrolls, or if I did, only 2 or 3 at most. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 00:33:54
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| A lot of dust on this old scroll ... ha, my very first submissions to Candlekeep, I believe. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 00:42:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I just stumbled upon something that I have read many times, but somehow never really got hold of what it said.
"... Reading even one nether scroll offers considerable insight into the Art. Any character studying one immediately gains one level in an arcane spellcasting class of her choice. (That is, her experience point total is set to the midpoint for her new level.)"
The quote is taken from Lost Empires of Faerûn.
If reading one gives one level then surely reading all fifty must give fifty levels... Right?
That's how I'd probably do it. Then again, I'd never have all 50 laying around if taking that route. Wooly's ideas on how he'd handle it are really good too. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 02:14:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I just stumbled upon something that I have read many times, but somehow never really got hold of what it said.
"... Reading even one nether scroll offers considerable insight into the Art. Any character studying one immediately gains one level in an arcane spellcasting class of her choice. (That is, her experience point total is set to the midpoint for her new level.)"
The quote is taken from Lost Empires of Faerûn.
If reading one gives one level then surely reading all fifty must give fifty levels... Right?
Each of the Nether Scrolls often individually count as rare artifacts of extreme arcane power. Finding just one should be seen as a momentous achievement for a particular character. Finding an entire set and profiting from such a discovery kind of stretches the bounds of what's appropriate for a serious campaign.
In other words, I think the designer reasoning behind the benefits for reading just one Nether Scroll suggests that it's highly unlikely a character will ever find, perhaps, more than one or two. Finding an entire set of Nether Scrolls, I think, should be almost impossible for a regular player character. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 02:14:49
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Mechanically speaking, if I were to actually allow a player access to all the Nether Scrolls (without serious consequences), I'd follow Wooly's advice.
However, lore wise, here is some helpful lore from Ed back in 2011:
quote:
Hi again, all.
Eldacar, I bring you swift responses from Ed re. your most recent queries. Here we go:
". . . when Ecamane Truesilver studied the Quess'Ar'Teranthvar in Windsong Tower (my copy of GHotR places it in 580 DR), reportedly a complete set of fifty scrolls (all five chapters), which chapters of the scrolls did he study?"
Ed: All of them. He had Azuth assisting him in a complete walkthrough. Keeping him from insanity and overload, but leaving him like your average university student cramming through a difficult course: read everything, understood most of it - - but a year later, only a few "high points" stuck in his memory. The lasting benefits were breakthrough insights regarding those high points, and a half-remembered "ah, THIS way will probably work better . . . I seem to remember . . ." for the rest of it, when doing magical innovation.
"He spent ten months studying them and had his hair "aged white" from the magic and wisdom gained, but unless he had divine aid, he would have gone quite insane, no?"
Ed: Yes. Without divine aid, he would have gone quite insane. (For most mages, drooling, barking, wild behavior OBVIOUSLY insane. A rare few can still function, hiding their insanity from others for long periods - - and they of course become the most dangerous.)
"Additionally, it was mentioned that with the assistance from a deity, all the Nether Scrolls could be "walked through" by an individual, and that while such aid was rare, it is not unheard of. Can Ed say anything about individuals who have read the entire set of Nether Scrolls? If the Chosen haven't, then who has? I would imagine that Larloch or Ioulaum might be among that number, for example, but can't really think of any others off the top of my head other than particular Netherese Archwizards way back when Netheril was at its height (Karsus?)."
Ed: Larloch and Ioulaum have read the entire Nether Scrolls. Both are those 'most dangerous' functioning insane sorts I mentioned (rare, yes). For that matter, Elminster is another dangerous functioning insane individual.
Karsus has NOT read the entire Nether Scrolls. He is driven by his overweening pride/arrogance, to such an extent that if he hasn't created it on his own, it's worth nothing. If someone else has devised a clever magic, he must duplicate it ON HIS OWN (and, in his mind by definition do it 'better'). He has perused them on several occasions when 'stuck' with something he couldn't intuit or understand or develop, but is suspicious of them because he views them as an attempt by the Sarrukh to control the minds of those who read them (yes, he believes the Scrolls contain sarrukh sentience - - and may very well be correct in this belief). Karsus is all about "I am the best ever, I do it myself, I am self-made and supreme and this validates my dominance." (He's wrong, but nothing shakes this belief . . . and now, trapped forever at the moment of his death, nothing ever will. He knows he's failed, but can't move beyond the moment of that realization.)
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 04:14:05
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I think if you read the Scrolls one at a time with long intervals in between, that would help the mage doing so from "overloading" and going "insane"
But besides the chances of going bonkers reading the Scrolls, something has always been nagging me about the them. There are 100 in total with 50 being gold the other 50 platinum...then are both of the sets the same(same titles, give knowledge etc), just made of different materials? Or are both sets needed? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Edited by - Xar Zarath on 26 Feb 2013 04:18:26 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 06:42:02
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I always thought that the two sets of scrolls were identical. One being a copy of the other, created at a later date. I always thought the copy stolen by the elves and transformed were the newer scrolls.
Now, a common theme in a lot of magical lore in the Forgotten Realms and other rpgs is hidden information contained within the rest. This is even included in the The Quess'Ar'Teranthvar, where High Mages or wizards of greater than 20th level are able to access hidden lore. I see no reason why the creators of the second, newer set of scrolls might not have missed something of this nature in their recreation of the scrolls. In other words, perhaps there are secrets in the older set that are not in the newer. Perhaps both sets had knowledge hidden in a way not yet considered by anyone since their discovery by the Netherese. Perhaps they have secrets only accessed by Serpent folk, or by another highly specific group. Perhaps on other planes of existence there are keys to unlock some of these secrets.
I'd say the only thing limiting such expansion on the Nether scrolls is the scope of your imagination. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 11:26:41
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I was not talking about incorporating the scrolls into a campaign, but merely the mechanics that seem to imply that one would gain fifty levels if one were to read all fifty scrolls.
I would love to find them as a player, but as a DM I would like many other here, count the discovery of one as a significant find and treat that as a major campaign all in itself. All fifty would be impossible if one were not able to gain access to the golden beach tree in Myth-Drannor. Which is also very unlikely.
The thing is, that I always thought that the level gain was a part of the first chapter bonus, but after reading it again I do believe that it is gained per page. So one scroll, taking one month of study gains one level.
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 13:34:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
In other words, I think the designer reasoning behind the benefits for reading just one Nether Scroll suggests that it's highly unlikely a character will ever find, perhaps, more than one or two. Finding an entire set of Nether Scrolls, I think, should be almost impossible for a regular player character.
Which kind of, for me anyway, stifles great RP and story. I mean the PCs always have to deal with someone seeking great power in some form, whether for evil, good intentions but wrongful actions, or just plain for the fun of it, but when a PC's personal motivation and goals happen to be big dreamers (like some adventurers are prone to be) it's suddenly a no-no because the game mechanic benefits are apparently a nightmare to the DM.
If a PC has a wizard who's goal is to adventure and seek out all the lost scrolls of Netheril for as long as they live, it ruins that sense of story, RP, and verisimilitude when the metagame enters the picture. The metagame being,"I guess I can never have a character that dreams big because this DM of mine will always halt his progress cause he's worried I'd have a few artifacts in hand."
But, eh, that's just me and my hardcore stance against DMs so afraid of game mechanics. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, I say. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 13:44:33
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@Razz: Could not agree with you more. I've both played and DMed over the years (tho not near as much as I would have liked). The general consensus seems to be less magic is better. But in my campaigns I let the reigns slip a bit. It's nice to play a powerful character from time to time...not always mind you...just sometimes.
I've played with far to many DMs who shy away from higher level play, who try to cap the number of magic items (and even access to spells) all in the name of 'game balance' issues. But Ive had two really good DMs who were more than capable of handling it...although the players had to always be on their toes with them...neither of them pulled any punches.
On topic: I would only allow 1 level for each chapter of the scrolls (so +5 levels in all) and instead give multiple bonuses and feats based on how many scrolls were read and chapters completed with brilliant insights into spellcraft. I would also impose increasingly difficult intelligence checks to stave off insanity. Failed checks would first result in quirks (like a nervous tick or something) but eventually graduate to full blown megalomania, breaks from reality, severe paranoia etc,etc,etc. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 16:08:08
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If you read the order of the stick they had a situation where their wizard made a demonic packt and got the souls of 3 of the mightiest wizards that ever lived assigned to him which gave him all their spellcasting abilities (and other effects like them sticking to him and influencing him). He then went on to battle a mighty lich, with all those new magic he should have been able to wipe the floor with the lich easily but he lost the battle due to low saves and DCs. The lich then told him that all those new spells and spell slots didn't help him because he still was only a mid level wizard and they couldn't delude this.
I think this could be very fitting regarding the nether scrolls. So when a low or mid level character somehow gets to read them and doesn't go crazy over it he could get some feats or spells that are not that super mega affective until he reaches higher (maybe even epic) levels and only develop their real potential then.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 18:01:17
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DELETED
It served no positive purpose.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Feb 2013 18:08:51 |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2013 : 02:39:18
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| Like everything in life, if the mage practices moderation in reading the Scrolls, i dont see why he couldn't become powerful and maintain his/her sanity. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2013 : 03:10:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
In other words, I think the designer reasoning behind the benefits for reading just one Nether Scroll suggests that it's highly unlikely a character will ever find, perhaps, more than one or two. Finding an entire set of Nether Scrolls, I think, should be almost impossible for a regular player character.
Which kind of, for me anyway, stifles great RP and story. I mean the PCs always have to deal with someone seeking great power in some form, whether for evil, good intentions but wrongful actions, or just plain for the fun of it, but when a PC's personal motivation and goals happen to be big dreamers (like some adventurers are prone to be) it's suddenly a no-no because the game mechanic benefits are apparently a nightmare to the DM.
I'm not saying it's a no-no. I simply want to understand why it would be necessary to deliberately contradict an element of Realmslore simply for a PC wanting greater power. It just doesn't equate with interesting gameplay in my mind.
If it's all part of some grand story you're plotting for your Realms, then fair enough. But we're talking about very powerful arcane artifacts. I wouldn't expect a PC to just up and have them all in the very next game session. If I were to run something like this, the PC would only end up with the resultant set of Nether Scrolls after, perhaps, many years of campaigning in my Realms.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2013 : 04:51:59
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And the PC in question would be insane.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 04:47:28
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| @George: Really? There is no way besides divine aid to not go bonkers reading the Scrolls? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 06:55:46
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Personally I would say, that the nether scrolls are the single most sort after item for any mage. That said, I see no reason for anyone going insane by the knowledge in the scrolls. (except for the ED note above)
SO if you took you time. 1 month per scroll, I think you would be fine. IMO. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 08:39:01
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| It should definitely be the case that there are risks involved with reading the Nether Scrolls. However, it has been done in the past and therefore should be possible to do in the present without going insane. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 13:34:26
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I’m guessing that there are levels of insanity. And that the Nether Scrolls only aply a sligh, or minor level of insanity. Also I’m guessing that it depends on who is reading it. And how.
It was my belief that the form of the golden beach three increased the difficulty of understanding the knowledge,( like reading between the lines) but I also thought that is was quite safe in this form. I also thought that there were an underlining 6th chapter in the elven tree form, and that leads me to believe that no existing being have uncovered all the information in th scrolls. There might even be a 7th or 8th chapter.
Further I thought that it took way longer to actually read 50 scrolls than 10 month. Or was this the intensive course given by Azuth? A few calculations put it around 50 months, or ca. 4 years. No wonder someone would go insane if one’s mind had to dilute that kind of information in 10 month. That's insane.
Lastly; is the insanity, apparently gained by reading the scrolls canon or only something Ed says happens? Don’t get me wrong, I thing and deem what Ed says to be canon, but does it actually say in any game supplement that reading the scrolls makes you go kuku?
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 16:43:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Further I thought that it took way longer to actually read 50 scrolls than 10 month. Or was this the intensive course given by Azuth? A few calculations put it around 50 months, or ca. 4 years. No wonder someone would go insane if one’s mind had to dilute that kind of information in 10 month. That's insane.
It was the intensive course given by Azuth. Netheril: Empire of Magic states it takes months to read a single page.
The scrolls were divided into five sections of ten each.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 18:56:55
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quote:
I’m guessing that there are levels of insanity. And that the Nether Scrolls only aply a sligh, or minor level of insanity. Also I’m guessing that it depends on who is reading it. And how.
It was my belief that the form of the golden beach three increased the difficulty of understanding the knowledge,( like reading between the lines) but I also thought that is was quite safe in this form. I also thought that there were an underlining 6th chapter in the elven tree form, and that leads me to believe that no existing being have uncovered all the information in th scrolls. There might even be a 7th or 8th chapter.
Further I thought that it took way longer to actually read 50 scrolls than 10 month. Or was this the intensive course given by Azuth? A few calculations put it around 50 months, or ca. 4 years. No wonder someone would go insane if one’s mind had to dilute that kind of information in 10 month. That's insane.
Lastly; is the insanity, apparently gained by reading the scrolls canon or only something Ed says happens? Don’t get me wrong, I thing and deem what Ed says to be canon, but does it actually say in any game supplement that reading the scrolls makes you go kuku?
As I recall, each scroll takes one month of reading to complete.
By definition, everything Ed says is canon.
I agree that by altering the form of the scrolls into the form unique for each race should make studying them safer.
I'm not sure where the reference for Azuth's directing said mage's studies comes from but does 10 months actually mean he studied all the scrolls? Perhaps he only studied 10 (a single chapter)?
Any thoughts on what form the scrolls would take for other races? Here is a couple of my ideas...
Dwarves: The scrolls take the form of an cave with multiple types of gems and veins of mithril, amantite, precious metals, etc. And perhaps a carving of a dwarven deity, ancestor, or historical leader who 'whispers in the mind' those who are at study. The patterns in the veins and gemstones leads to deeper understanding.
Humans: As the most adaptable race (IMO) the scrolls take a simpler form...that of a golden grimoire set before a wall of strange symbols. The book contains the 'key' to deciphering the inscriptions but, just as the reader discovers a secret the symbols and the 'key' change. In this case, it's the book that 'assists' in revealing the secrets.
Gnomes: A small grove of multi-colored flowers with striking patterns on them and an insect (form unique to each individual who studies) that assists in revelations. Periodically, a wind blows and the patterns alter form.
Thoughts? |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 19:20:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Dwarves: The scrolls take the form of an cave with multiple types of gems and veins of mithril, amantite, precious metals, etc. And perhaps a carving of a dwarven deity, ancestor, or historical leader who 'whispers in the mind' those who are at study. The patterns in the veins and gemstones leads to deeper understanding.
There is a myth that the dwarves were unable to even see the Nether Scrolls -- the scrolls were invisible to them.
The Scrolls and the Dwarves/ The Denial of Mystryl -- A very brief tale; it offers a reason for while pre-3E dwarves could not use arcane magic. It took me a couple of years to find this file! Tauster had to provide the name of it for me to be able to locate it.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Feb 2013 19:21:39 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 19:23:36
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The reason the elves modified the scrolls they stole was to make the information contained in them (which they could not destroy) more difficult to access.
This would not be the case for any other race because no other race thinks of itself in the role of protectors of the Weave.
Remember, humans had the scrolls for a LONG time and never considered making a tree out of them :P |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 20:18:55
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| The elven method used to modify a set of scrolls into the golden grove wasn't specified, but I think it's obvious their high magic was involved. Elven high magic being about on par, I think, with the 10th/11th level spells of Netherese arcanists, a level of magic basically lost to humans after Netheril's/Mystryl's fall. Some extraordinary humans (notably the Chosen) and liches (notably Larloch, perhaps also Szass Tam) are able to exceed the normal limits with Mystra's special per-casting approval. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 22:07:39
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Wooly: Is that tale canon? Or just something someone made up? I've never seen/heard that tale before either. On p.87 of LEoF is an entry on Xothol, a dwarven school of magic in the capitol city of Ammarindar. So if one wants a precedent for dwarven wizards there it is (the school was founded over 2000 years ago).
Of course, that doesn't mean that the dwarves couldn't still be DENIED access to the scrolls by the gods.
Ayrik: I've always equated Rituals of Solitude with 10th-level magic, Rituals of Complement with 11th, and Rituals of Myriad with 12th. Let's not forget that it was a massive Ritual of Myriad that was used for The Sundering...a 12th-level (or higher) effect if ever there was one. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 28 Feb 2013 22:13:06 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 22:13:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The elven method used to modify a set of scrolls into the golden grove wasn't specified, but I think it's obvious their high magic was involved. Elven high magic being about on par, I think, with the 10th/11th level spells of Netherese arcanists, a level of magic basically lost to humans after Netheril's/Mystryl's fall. Some extraordinary humans (notably the Chosen) and liches (notably Larloch, perhaps also Szass Tam) are able to exceed the normal limits with Mystra's special per-casting approval.
I don't remember which book, possibly Secrets of the Magister, modified this restriction that casting such magic (which has its own difficulties and limits) only "attracts the attention of Azuth & Mystra," nut not requires her approval. And misuse can result in some problems. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 23:09:03
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
<SNIP re ideas for different races>
Thoughts?
I think this idea is cool.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 23:35:07
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Thanks Mr. Krashos. That really means alot coming from such an esteemed member of the community.  |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 23:52:06
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Wooly: Is that tale canon? Or just something someone made up? I've never seen/heard that tale before either. On p.87 of LEoF is an entry on Xothol, a dwarven school of magic in the capitol city of Ammarindar. So if one wants a precedent for dwarven wizards there it is (the school was founded over 2000 years ago).
The existence of the myth is canon, for the simple fact it's from WotC. Whether or not it was a true story is unsaid.
Keep in mind, though, that it came out during the 2E time frame -- and in 2E, dwarves not only could not be wizards, any magical item they used had a 20% chance of failure, unless it was keyed to their class or to dwarves.
Lost Empires came out in 3E, when there was no such restriction. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 00:13:21
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quote:
Ayrik
The elven method used to modify a set of scrolls into the golden grove wasn't specified, but I think it's obvious their high magic was involved. Elven high magic being about on par, I think, with the 10th/11th level spells of Netherese arcanists, a level of magic basically lost to humans after Netheril's/Mystryl's fall. Some extraordinary humans (notably the Chosen) and liches (notably Larloch, perhaps also Szass Tam) are able to exceed the normal limits with Mystra's special per-casting approval.
quote:
The Masked Mage
I don't remember which book, possibly Secrets of the Magister, modified this restriction that casting such magic (which has its own difficulties and limits) only "attracts the attention of Azuth & Mystra," nut not requires her approval. And misuse can result in some problems.
You may be correct, but the rules offered in Netheril basically state that post-Netheril Mystra (or maybe Azuth) specifically permits or denies every 10th level wizard spell being cast, and that the spellcasting only has a 25% chance of succeeding even when allowed (and that the first attempt to cast it always automatically fails). 11th level wizard magic is completely forbidden, while the *only* example of a 12th level spell recorded in canon is Karsus's avatar. Printed during the 2E sourcebook diaspora, so it's almost certainly contradicted elsewhere.
Although treated inconsistently across editions, Mystra is basically an human goddess and apparently does not govern elven high magic. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Mar 2013 00:17:35 |
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Nether Scrolls
