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 Has the Simbul ever personally fought Szass Tam?
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jordanz
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Posted - 31 Jul 2012 :  03:28:17  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I mean with her notorious conflicts versus Thay one would think they must has crossed paths atleast once. Not sure if at the height of her power she could have taken him on his home turf, otherwise wouldn't she had done so?

Dennis
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Posted - 31 Jul 2012 :  08:06:19  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

No, she can't. She said so herself in The Simbul's Gift. Though it wasn't just Szass Tam she's referring to, but all the zulkirs. Conversely, Szass Tam wouldn't want to set foot on her own turf, let alone face her there. They're powerful, but they know their limit.

As I noted in my thread "Now that the Witch-Queen is gone...", it remains an enigma why Szass Tam never attempted to seize Aglarond and build his Dread Rings there when the Simbul was gone (recovering from severe SP-induced insanity).

Every beginning has an end.
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_Jarlaxle_
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Germany
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Posted - 31 Jul 2012 :  10:19:42  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On their home turf either of them would risk of running into lots of magical traps and security spells so even though the Simbul is much more powerfull than Szass it would be too risky for her.

If they had met somewhere in the open I guess she would rub the floor with him if he couldn't manage to escape but than there would be the problem that she had to know where his phylactery is to destroy him.
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phranctoast
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USA
151 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2012 :  13:39:03  Show Profile Send phranctoast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"As I noted in my thread "Now that the Witch-Queen is gone...", it remains an enigma why Szass Tam never attempted to seize Aglarond and build his Dread Rings there when the Simbul was gone (recovering from severe SP-induced insanity)."

Why invite outside conflict when he already has control of Thay? Also a Dread Ring may have not be geographically feasible in Aglarond...

Currently reading: Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson: Sequel to Mistshore
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jordanz
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Posted - 31 Jul 2012 :  16:14:37  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_

On their home turf either of them would risk of running into lots of magical traps and security spells so even though the Simbul is much more powerfull than Szass it would be too risky for her.

If they had met somewhere in the open I guess she would rub the floor with him if he couldn't manage to escape but than there would be the problem that she had to know where his phylactery is to destroy him.



Still I wonder how the prime version of Simbul would match up versus the current Bane touched version of Szass Tam.
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_Jarlaxle_
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Posted - 31 Jul 2012 :  17:14:02  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If I remember correctly there was no indication that he gained much power by it, the "only" benefit for him was that he could still cast normaly despite the spellplague. In any case he didn't get any devine power from it.
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Markustay
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Posted - 31 Jul 2012 :  18:14:54  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

As I noted in my thread "Now that the Witch-Queen is gone...", it remains an enigma why Szass Tam never attempted to seize Aglarond and build his Dread Rings there when the Simbul was gone (recovering from severe SP-induced insanity).
Actually, it makes no sense what-so-ever.

According to all past Realmslore, he should have pounced the moment she was gone. Anything else written about him or Thay is VERY un-Realmsian, IMHO.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 31 Jul 2012 18:15:33
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_Jarlaxle_
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Germany
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Posted - 31 Jul 2012 :  19:07:54  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well it depends. phranctoasts idea could make sense. If aglarond had no suitable place for a dread ring it could be uninteresting for Tam now that he has higher plans

Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 31 Jul 2012 19:08:12
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Dennis
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Posted - 31 Jul 2012 :  19:08:08  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz

Still I wonder how the prime version of Simbul would match up versus the current Bane touched version of Szass Tam.


He already used up the extra power Bane had given him. After the War of the Zulkirs, he's back to his original state.

quote:
Originally posted by phranctoast

"As I noted in my thread "Now that the Witch-Queen is gone...", it remains an enigma why Szass Tam never attempted to seize Aglarond and build his Dread Rings there when the Simbul was gone (recovering from severe SP-induced insanity)."

Why invite outside conflict when he already has control of Thay?


Because he needs a new place to build his Dread Rings. The failure of the Ritual of Unmaking rendered Thay unfit for another set of Dread Rings.

quote:


Also a Dread Ring may have not be geographically feasible in Aglarond...

Probably. Though I'd like to know why.

I am still inclined to agree to what some scribes postulated in the other thread---that the Simbul placed a myriad of magical defenses all around Aglarond, which can be triggered even upon her absence; and that Szass could feel it but has not found a way to unravel it.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 31 Jul 2012 19:13:05
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Markustay
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Posted - 31 Jul 2012 :  19:21:01  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Be aware that 'The Simbul' is named after something.

There is something going on 'beneath the surface' very similar to what goes on in Rasheman (but far more... discreet). If the dread Rings are powered by necrotic magics, then any sort of life-magic (node?) may conflict with it. Both Aglarond and Rasheman are infused with nature/life energy.

I was also thinking about what I said earlier - perhaps the wars with Aglarond and Rasheman were a means of diverting the attention and resources of the Zulkirs away from Tam himself. Maybe Szass Tam never gave a crap about either of those places - it was just a game he was playing until he had all his ducks in a row. I can definitely see Tam being that clever (and having such long-range plans).

I guess I shouldn't have avoided your earlier thread Dennis; what Thay was turned-into in 4e is a sore spot for me, and these days I avoid threads where I know I might get... ummmm... emotional? about the subject matter.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 31 Jul 2012 19:21:30
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Dennis
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Posted - 31 Jul 2012 :  21:04:03  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Be aware that 'The Simbul' is named after something.


A dead goddess.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

If the dread Rings are powered by necrotic magics, then any sort of life-magic (node?) may conflict with it.


Before the civil war, the largest portion of Thay's land was lush and verdant---teeming with life-magic. Vast amount of necromantic magics transformed it to its blighted state now. Same thing could happen to Aglarond and Rashemen if Szass Tam manages to penetrate them.

quote:


Maybe Szass Tam never gave a crap about either of those places.


There are hints in RLB's The Masked Witches which indicate that he might be interested in Rashemen, or at the very least, in stopping the Eminence of Aurant from taking over.

Every beginning has an end.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 31 Jul 2012 :  23:40:32  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On the one hand, I think it might be more in-line with past canon to say he avoided doing his ritual (or taking-over) either of those places because of the nature deities (and obvious nature/life energies permeating the region). However, Thay always had trouble with Rashemen, so we really only need wonder about (post-Simbul) Aglarond.

So, on the other hand, I think destroying an area of nature/life energy would be the most powerful way to get a HUGE necrotic boost (similar to what happens when defilers on Athas 'do their thang'). This means Rashemen should still be a prime target (and probably is), but there has to be some other reason he didn't go balls-to-the-wall belligerent on Aglarond when the Simbul disappeared.

I would say 'something' (the power of the first Simbul?) is still protecting Aglarond, but that doesn't make much sense (because defeating such a power and turning its energies necrotic would be a major coupe). It only makes sense that the 'best' place to perform death-related rituals would be in places where there is much life (otherwise, whats the point?) I never read the series, so I'm not even sure what type of energy (it could have been Fiendish) Szass Tam was trying to obtain.

So here's my thinking - he never really liked Aglarond and Rashemen, but he did have hopes of eventually using those territories for his 'master plan' (which may have been something else originally, but evolved into the Dread-ring thing). Besides that, being at war with both constantly kept his Zulkirs busy and off his back (and allowed him to see their strengths, and how good they were at fighting and manipulation). So basically, although he did have some eventual goals in mind, most of that was just a great game he was playing while he laid his real plans.

Unfortunately, for whatever reason (like I said, I didn't read the series, nor intend to) he couldn't wait anymore for those lands. Perhaps he 'forsaw' the Spellplague and had to rush things (I believe there was something about that). Ergo, instead of using his enemies lands like he eventually hoped to do, he was forced to use his own kingdom to fuel his ritual (which of course, killed all his own people, which didn't really leave him much of a kingdom - hence why I say it seemed like a desperate tactic).

Now in the aftermath of all that, the ritual didn't work, he's got a dead country, and he doesn't bother to go after his ex-enemies... which I find immensely peculiar. Aglarond is ripe for the picking, and he goes off and starts messing-around in The North - Larloch's stomping-grounds? That doesn't make much sense at all.

Unless there is something beneath Aglarond he is wary of. Otherwise he need not go so far afield.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 31 Jul 2012 23:43:03
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Dennis
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Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  00:13:17  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Szass Tam didn't foresee the Spellplague. Yaphyll did.

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phranctoast
Learned Scribe

USA
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Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  14:19:42  Show Profile Send phranctoast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Because he needs a new place to build his Dread Rings. The failure of the Ritual of Unmaking rendered Thay unfit for another set of Dread Rings.


Ahhhhh.. I thought you meant immediately following the spellplague, and not after the failure of the unmaking.

quote:
Still I wonder how the prime version of Simbul would match up versus the current Bane touched version of Szass Tam.


I'd be giddy to see the outcome of a Mystra touched Simbul from Elminster in Hell vs a Bane touched Szass Tam from Undead.

Currently reading: Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson: Sequel to Mistshore
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
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Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  16:22:39  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My take on this is that Szass Tam did a cost/benefit analysis in his head regarding conquering Aglarond and decided not to go for it. The Simbul was *apparently* gone (could be a trick), but she left an array of apprentices, magical traps, and unknown dangers lurking. Tam killed a lot of his own potential army, so his resources were depleted, and the Simbul could just be waiting to trap him when he attempts to attack. And even if the Simbul herself wasn't there, who knows what Tam might be facing? Better the enemy you know than the one you don't.

We the audience can speculate that Tam would be up to the task, but he wouldn't necessarily have the same information we do. And even if he wins, it could deplete him and let one of his rivals defeat him in the aftermath. I saw that as the reason he would repeatedly send Thayan armies into Aglarond, rather than go himself--constantly testing the Simbul's defenses, seeking to wear her down without risking damaging or weakening himself.

Ultimately, it's a big risk to take for not that much gain.

Anyway, that's how I look at it.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars"
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

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Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  16:23:24  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oddly, I think a 'returned Mystra' may ally with Bane. They were only enemies through circumstances, and since her ascendance (and his death) they really need not butt-heads. There is the 'tyranny' thing that Mystra 1.0 abhorred, but only in regards to be tyrannical about withholding magic. Something, strangely, she herself is guilty of (after all, she billed herself as the "end-all, be-all of magic", which we now know was patently FALSE).

And considering both of them would really like to get rid of Cyric, its not that far-fetched. Mystra wants to become the 'tyrant of magic' again, and I really doubt Bane wants to become one of Shar's lap-dogs (which is where the world is heading without Mystra). You know the addage - "the enemy of my enemy..."

It would certainly make for an interesting plot-twist.

Also, it seems Bane is making overtures to replace Gruumsh (he seems to have some orcish blood in him), and I can see Mystra being onboard with that (she is friendly with the Seldarine, and they hate the Orc gods). Things could get quite interesting. Imagine the Simbul and Szass Tam on the same side - stranger things have happened.

On the other hand, I hope all of this resolves itself BEFORE 5e - I don't want another edition mired in 'godwars'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 01 Aug 2012 16:24:47
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Dennis
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Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  17:07:20  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Whether Bane would ally with Mystra or not does not concern Szass Tam. At least not yet. He still has almost a millennium before Bane can collect his part of the bargain.

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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
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Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  18:43:50  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thats not necessarily true. after all the living portion of his forces are all banites due to his bargain and so perhaps not having Banes backing could seriously weaken his hold on their loyalty.
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phranctoast
Learned Scribe

USA
151 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  18:57:31  Show Profile Send phranctoast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Thats not necessarily true. after all the living portion of his forces are all banites due to his bargain and so perhaps not having Banes backing could seriously weaken his hold on their loyalty.



Doesn't he more or less have their loyalty through fear?

Currently reading: Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson: Sequel to Mistshore
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phranctoast
Learned Scribe

USA
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Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  19:16:05  Show Profile Send phranctoast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In lieu of necrobumping the how to kill a lich in 10 days (pun intended) I have a new suggestion.

First things first. Know the location of the phylactery. Divination is likely out so finding it from more traditional ways will have to suffice. Once the location is obtained the more difficult of the two is over.

The next phase is simply destroying the lich ;).

I'd go with a magic user who's also an adept fighter. Storm or Dove.... Have a piece of spell dead stone from the time of troubles and then physically destroy the lichs body.

This should eliminate all defenses as well as taking out any Golems the Lich may be using for physical attacks.


Currently reading: Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson: Sequel to Mistshore
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  19:26:33  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Thats not necessarily true. after all the living portion of his forces are all banites due to his bargain and so perhaps not having Banes backing could seriously weaken his hold on their loyalty.


Not all. And I don't think they matter that much. The necromancers loyal to him are many, and are enough to raise undead armies to repel any attack or to start a campaign outside Thay.

Besides, phranctoast has a point. Szass Tam may have told them something along this line, "You're all servants of Bane, but you are in my kingdom. Hence, you answer to me first and foremost. Otherwise, begone, or I'll kill you and animate your corpses to be part of my undead army."

Every beginning has an end.
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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  19:37:43  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by phranctoast

First things first. Know the location of the phylactery. Divination is likely out so finding it from more traditional ways will have to suffice.


That is the most difficult part. If not impossible.

When she turned her back on Szass Tam, Yaphyll, the Zulkir of Divination, whose prowess matches that of King Zalathorm of Halruaa, must have attempted it already, and (apparently) failed.

Every beginning has an end.
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phranctoast
Learned Scribe

USA
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Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  19:51:06  Show Profile Send phranctoast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
That is the most difficult part. If not impossible.


Certainly impossible in the time frame. How was it done in War of the Spider Queen? Didn't Gromph look for locations disguised with no magic? He also had the knowledge that in all likely hood it would be located in the Families house.

btw.. Nice reference to Halruaa considering I'm reading it now :)

Currently reading: Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson: Sequel to Mistshore

Edited by - phranctoast on 01 Aug 2012 19:52:28
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  19:54:51  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Thats not necessarily true. after all the living portion of his forces are all banites due to his bargain and so perhaps not having Banes backing could seriously weaken his hold on their loyalty.


Not all. And I don't think they matter that much. The necromancers loyal to him are many, and are enough to raise undead armies to repel any attack or to start a campaign outside Thay.

Besides, phranctoast has a point. Szass Tam may have told them something along this line, "You're all servants of Bane, but you are in my kingdom. Hence, you answer to me first and foremost. Otherwise, begone, or I'll kill you and animate your corpses to be part of my undead army."


This is of course a valid enough scenario but personally i believe that no matter the power of his necromancy, Tam stills needs a core of living supporters in the long run . This is because firstly the outside world already hates Thay, you need some living faces to show them if you are ever going to conduct any sort of negotiation. Also living spies and agents can enter places where the dead cannot.
Secondly to a long term thinker like him it should be obvious that the best way to replace losses through attrition is to have a steady supply of the living that you can reanimate. He has already exhausted the cemeteries of Thay and acts like the destruction of Neverwinter are only good for a temporary surge in his forces.
Now I am not saying the living component of his kingdom can easily overthrow him but it is also true that he needs them more than he lets on, breaking with Bane would make things needlessly complicated for him.
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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  20:03:58  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by phranctoast

quote:
That is the most difficult part. If not impossible.


Certainly impossible in the time frame. How was it done in War of the Spider Queen? Didn't Gromph look for locations disguised with no magic? He also had the knowledge that in all likely hood it would be located in the Families house.


Either I forgot the details or it's mentioned in a book that I haven't read yet. So far, I've only read Books 5, 1, and 2. Yes, in that order. Hehe.

quote:
Originally posted by phranctoast

btw.. Nice reference to Halruaa considering I'm reading it now :)


C&K trilogy is one of Elaine's best, for me. My favorite in the series is the last one, Wizardwar.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 01 Aug 2012 20:07:22
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phranctoast
Learned Scribe

USA
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Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  20:11:55  Show Profile Send phranctoast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice. She's easily one of my favorite authors. Rite of Blood is my favorite short story.

Currently reading: Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson: Sequel to Mistshore
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2012 :  20:21:24  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Thats not necessarily true. after all the living portion of his forces are all banites due to his bargain and so perhaps not having Banes backing could seriously weaken his hold on their loyalty.


Not all. And I don't think they matter that much. The necromancers loyal to him are many, and are enough to raise undead armies to repel any attack or to start a campaign outside Thay.

Besides, phranctoast has a point. Szass Tam may have told them something along this line, "You're all servants of Bane, but you are in my kingdom. Hence, you answer to me first and foremost. Otherwise, begone, or I'll kill you and animate your corpses to be part of my undead army."


This is of course a valid enough scenario but personally i believe that no matter the power of his necromancy, Tam stills needs a core of living supporters in the long run . This is because firstly the outside world already hates Thay, you need some living faces to show them if you are ever going to conduct any sort of negotiation. Also living spies and agents can enter places where the dead cannot.
Secondly to a long term thinker like him it should be obvious that the best way to replace losses through attrition is to have a steady supply of the living that you can reanimate. He has already exhausted the cemeteries of Thay and acts like the destruction of Neverwinter are only good for a temporary surge in his forces.
Now I am not saying the living component of his kingdom can easily overthrow him but it is also true that he needs them more than he lets on, breaking with Bane would make things needlessly complicated for him.


Oh, I'm not saying he does not need the living. In fact, he needs them almost as badly as he needs the undead. What I'm saying is they need not be Banites. There are many ways to repopulate Thay without involving the Banites. Buy or steal more slaves, have them reproduce, and let them live a relatively 'free life,' so long as they don't go out of Thay. Besides, there are still many living survivors in Thay who are not Banites, specially in Eltabbar. Most Banites live in Bezantur, given that its new autharch is a high priest of Bane.

Every beginning has an end.
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2012 :  13:55:05  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Thats not necessarily true. after all the living portion of his forces are all banites due to his bargain and so perhaps not having Banes backing could seriously weaken his hold on their loyalty.


Not all. And I don't think they matter that much. The necromancers loyal to him are many, and are enough to raise undead armies to repel any attack or to start a campaign outside Thay.

Besides, phranctoast has a point. Szass Tam may have told them something along this line, "You're all servants of Bane, but you are in my kingdom. Hence, you answer to me first and foremost. Otherwise, begone, or I'll kill you and animate your corpses to be part of my undead army."


This is of course a valid enough scenario but personally i believe that no matter the power of his necromancy, Tam stills needs a core of living supporters in the long run . This is because firstly the outside world already hates Thay, you need some living faces to show them if you are ever going to conduct any sort of negotiation. Also living spies and agents can enter places where the dead cannot.
Secondly to a long term thinker like him it should be obvious that the best way to replace losses through attrition is to have a steady supply of the living that you can reanimate. He has already exhausted the cemeteries of Thay and acts like the destruction of Neverwinter are only good for a temporary surge in his forces.
Now I am not saying the living component of his kingdom can easily overthrow him but it is also true that he needs them more than he lets on, breaking with Bane would make things needlessly complicated for him.


Oh, I'm not saying he does not need the living. In fact, he needs them almost as badly as he needs the undead. What I'm saying is they need not be Banites. There are many ways to repopulate Thay without involving the Banites. Buy or steal more slaves, have them reproduce, and let them live a relatively 'free life,' so long as they don't go out of Thay. Besides, there are still many living survivors in Thay who are not Banites, specially in Eltabbar. Most Banites live in Bezantur, given that its new autharch is a high priest of Bane.



I get what your saying, many of the living would still follow him even if Bane turned on him but due to his pact with Bane most of not all of the religiously minded people in his country are now Banities and this is exactly the segment of the population that can cause serious problems for any ruler.
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Arcanus
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485 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2012 :  17:24:25  Show Profile  Visit Arcanus's Homepage Send Arcanus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's about time larloch squished this tam chappie.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2012 :  19:14:39  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

Before the civil war, the largest portion of Thay's land was lush and verdant---teeming with life-magic. Vast amount of necromantic magics transformed it to its blighted state now. Same thing could happen to Aglarond and Rashemen if Szass Tam manages to penetrate them.



I think the original person should have phrased it differently. Thay was lush and verdant, but it was because of weather control and slave labor. Rashemen and Aglarond were filled with life due to very fey links in their wildlands and unusual elemental/spiritual engergies. Now, whether these energies would conflict with dread rings... can't say.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
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Posted - 02 Aug 2012 :  19:19:04  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

On the one hand, I think it might be more in-line with past canon to say he avoided doing his ritual (or taking-over) either of those places because of the nature deities (and obvious nature/life energies permeating the region). However, Thay always had trouble with Rashemen, so we really only need wonder about (post-Simbul) Aglarond.

So, on the other hand, I think destroying an area of nature/life energy would be the most powerful way to get a HUGE necrotic boost (similar to what happens when defilers on Athas 'do their thang'). This means Rashemen should still be a prime target (and probably is), but there has to be some other reason he didn't go balls-to-the-wall belligerent on Aglarond when the Simbul disappeared.

I would say 'something' (the power of the first Simbul?) is still protecting Aglarond, but that doesn't make much sense (because defeating such a power and turning its energies necrotic would be a major coupe). It only makes sense that the 'best' place to perform death-related rituals would be in places where there is much life (otherwise, whats the point?) I never read the series, so I'm not even sure what type of energy (it could have been Fiendish) Szass Tam was trying to obtain.

So here's my thinking - he never really liked Aglarond and Rashemen, but he did have hopes of eventually using those territories for his 'master plan' (which may have been something else originally, but evolved into the Dread-ring thing). Besides that, being at war with both constantly kept his Zulkirs busy and off his back (and allowed him to see their strengths, and how good they were at fighting and manipulation). So basically, although he did have some eventual goals in mind, most of that was just a great game he was playing while he laid his real plans.

Unfortunately, for whatever reason (like I said, I didn't read the series, nor intend to) he couldn't wait anymore for those lands. Perhaps he 'forsaw' the Spellplague and had to rush things (I believe there was something about that). Ergo, instead of using his enemies lands like he eventually hoped to do, he was forced to use his own kingdom to fuel his ritual (which of course, killed all his own people, which didn't really leave him much of a kingdom - hence why I say it seemed like a desperate tactic).

Now in the aftermath of all that, the ritual didn't work, he's got a dead country, and he doesn't bother to go after his ex-enemies... which I find immensely peculiar. Aglarond is ripe for the picking, and he goes off and starts messing-around in The North - Larloch's stomping-grounds? That doesn't make much sense at all.

Unless there is something beneath Aglarond he is wary of. Otherwise he need not go so far afield.




See my take on it is way more simple. Its similar to my views on why they never conquered Aglarond before the Zulkirship failed. When Thay was in its prime, they never truly focused a lot of energy on Aglarond because it made a good buffer state and a nice place to raid for slaves. After it turned undead, well those undead need live things to feed on..... Of course, canon lore may declare these things otherwise, but canon lore doesn't always see into the devious mind of evil.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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