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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Mar 2010 : 19:58:12
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Something from another scroll got me fired up I guess. I cant remmeber the last time I was demonstrably negative of 4e here....but I read stuff in many scrolls everyday....and man people just dont like to be disagreed with...on either side of that arguement....
Man...it just wears me out....my mind is a shambles right now.
I am thinking back just 3 years ago or less, we discussed any and everything. No flames, no threats of locking down a scroll, just good debate. Thats not the case now. Seems many scribes (on either side of many various arguements) are quick to call foul and flag down a moderator and they put the hammer down. (What choice do they have, once called in they have to use their best judgement to serve the site and it's members) What happened to debate? Open and free? I see alot of stuff everyday that irks me...or lights a small fire under me....I ignore it, post as if it was not there or move on. Why take great offense and ruin the debate for all. I think we are all guilty of taking the 4e v.s 3e vs. blah blah blah....to personally. Not to mention other scribes opinions on them. I dont think the moderators have done anything other then what they must, but I think discussion here has been stiffled. When was the last time I looged on and saw more than 4 active users?? I remember 18-20 with many more Lurkers....I know of 8 or 9 users who were regular contributors, now either lurk or never come here at all. I know some are on pins and needles not wanting to tick of wotc....but this site needs different opinions....if we all agree on everything, the realms would be a sad static place wouldn't it?
And I will end this post with mine from the other scroll::
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Why don't we start a discussion about things that we *want* rather than turn threads like this into a discussion of how we *don't want* what's available?
Cheers
Very well said Erik. I myself am tired of hearing a 4E rant on every other thread.
I think you are seriously over-estimating the amount of 4E rants on the forums. This thread has been the only place I've seen a 4E rant in MONTHS, mostly due to the efforts of the Sage and the Space Hamster.
Ok i'll be clearer then. I hear one on every other thread that I look at and sometimes its not usually a rant, but a side negative comment about 4E that pops in too frequently.
And on topic, I like the idea of a traffic cop to make sure there are no inconsistencies in regards to the stories surrounding the spellplague.
Much like a negative comment about pre 4e or people who dont agree with 4e pops up in about every thread.
Some time ya just gotta ignore the little stuff. This heavy handed thought policing is in my opinion what is killing this forum. Has anyone noticed how rare it now is to see more than 3 or 4 active members logged in? i have seen so many scribes chastised for one or two negative comments , then about the second time it happens...they are gone.
I am not asking anyone to take abuse...but sometime discretion is the better part of valor and you have to live and let live. If you see comment you think is a bit to far, just dont fan the flames...it usually the reaction to something that blows up into a fireball.
I love this place.....but I fear it cannot take many more hits before it is unrecognizable when compared to just even 2 years ago.
Back on to the topic.....
How does the spellplague work?
it is impossible to debate that fairly without letting some scribe(s) express how it does not work for them. This can be taken negative and blown up...but it is really an invitation to explain how it does work for you.....and above all it is allright if we disagree.
Sorry for rambling.....thanks for reading...I think I am going on hiatus and remeber how good the discourse here used to be when ideas were exchanged and no topic was off limits to our powerful curiousity and love of the realms.....
Maybe I should have read this another 5 times before posting it...but the frst 5 havent cooled my thoughts so I might as well let loose the shaft, less my arm tire and it looses itself!
* off to enjoy my well earned Hiatus, and maybe read some Ed or Elaine!
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2010 : 20:26:31
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As someone who has not been posting on this forum for years and was wondering about the little activity here too, this is my theory:
I think this forum has/had an audience with a strong focus on the realms and its lore. As this lore feature has been... well.. let's face it... basically made irrelevant by the 4e realms with its time jump and there seems to be no big chance of building up 4e realms lore, activity here went down as it is clear that we are discussing about legacy content here and legacy stuff per default decreases active member participation because one starts questioning the sense of discussing discontinued stuff.
This feature of 4e has apparently caused an aversion to 4e that is more pronounced than let's say in other D&D forums. After all D&D 4e is not the problem and certainly everyone is willing to discuss game mechanics, which after all are not bad. The problem is the FR lore.
I see little options how user activity might increase here while the future of realms lore looks like it does today.
Personally I am very sad about this development because I really like this forum and I am afraid this might become the second time (after my favorite BG2 forum) that I enter a site that might for different reasons not see its best times again. I hope I get proven wrong by policy changes regarding the realms.
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"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
Edited by - skychrome on 12 Mar 2010 20:29:04 |
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Larloch
Acolyte
Spain
24 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2010 : 21:10:35
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I think that is important to remark that the amount of Realmslore that is avaible is very few compared to the amount that you could acces in 3th edition. The idea of not publishing books (regional, concerning some specific aspect of the Realms, etc.) reduces the amount of Realmslore and there are lest aspects to talk about. The fact that the only news come from the Insider, a a great part of the community it isn't suscribed (at least that it's the idea that I get from what I've read here and in the spanish forums) makes harder to post new things o to maintain certain illusion.
Of coure, the amount of "movement" that comes when there are manuals concerning the realms (previews, web enhancement, etc.) are something that makes a forum active. I think that the reduction of topics is something more concerned with the policy of WoTC concerning reducing Realmslore that a topic that goes beyond 3th vs 4th editon.
At least this is how I feel here in the spanish forums and from what I saw in Candlekeep. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2010 : 21:39:55
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Population changes, also canon evolves.
Between these two factors the tone certainly can change.
Also I notice the qualifier of "the treads I read" which also can be a factor. The RP thread appears to have little to any version problems, running the realms I rarely see an edition issue, with only sometime a user asking about what edition are you asking about.
Threads you read clearly can be focused on canon and how it has changed it which there are many that do not like what occurred in the last 100 years to FR, even I could be blamed for bashing because of how deities died.
Oh this leads me to bashing as much as beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some might consider a comment that I want Mystra back in the Realms as bashing 4th Edition, others clearly have expressed poor transition as far as to source books as bashing.
In my view I have indeed seen some complaints or bashing of 4th Edition, however in my view not half of the threads contain anything close to bashing. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2010 : 22:28:22
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| the GSL happened and the opinion held by some that wotc ruined the Realms with the 4e move..... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2010 : 00:25:49
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4E and the Spellplague has had a very divisive effect on fans of the setting. With the setting going in a direction many disagree with, and with an absence of -- or certainly a diminuation of -- new lore, many long time fans of the setting are feeling disconnected from the current version. That, more than anything else, is what's caused our numbers to drop off.
And though it's now a lot better than it was, the edition wars that were happening here really didn't help matters any. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2010 : 02:10:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
4E and the Spellplague has had a very divisive effect on fans of the setting. With the setting going in a direction many disagree with, and with an absence of -- or certainly a diminuation of -- new lore, many long time fans of the setting are feeling disconnected from the current version. That, more than anything else, is what's caused our numbers to drop off.
And though it's now a lot better than it was, the edition wars that were happening here really didn't help matters any.
sadly this is true on all counts |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2010 : 15:02:41
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I, for one, have said all that IMO needs be said, I lurk, note that there is nothing of interest, and x off the forums again. With all the lore raped to death by wizards there isn't much to discuss anymore, at least for me. The Realms are my world, and since every interpretation might border on IP-infringement, why bother?
So, yea, I'm off to my lil part of the world again. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2010 : 20:08:59
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I remember having the same thought earlier - activity seems to be dropping off a little bit. I guess I am in line with most other scribes here, only more so. I have not bought a 3 or 3.5 ED product (nothing to do with pro or con 3E, just that real life kicked in at one point, and I had less time, and a lot less budget, available for gaming purposes).
Still, even with 3rd ED or 3.5, I could still keep track of a lot of lore-related debates (Manshoon wars, some of the new developments), thanks in large part to the excellent Grand History of the Realms, first in PDF-form, and now in book form. When crunch was mentioned, I still had an idea, of sorts, what things represented (wizards still memorized spells). With 4th Ed, I feel more detached from FR.
I guess I'll have to concur with some of the other scribes, in saying that as there is no new lore coming out (or little, anyway, receiving only limited circulation through Insider), there is less to debate about. I guess that there is little point in debating, once again, some of the finer points of some 1E and 2E products.
Still, I keep busy - my main FR project is nearing completion, updating my Word version of the timeline (based on the PDF-versions of the GHoTR) with the information contained in the print edition, as well as some earlier sources (The Atlas of the Forgotten Realms, the FR Wiki) and unofficial sourcs (the Northern Journey campaign, and some of my own inventions). The only thing, of course, is that I cannot really discuss much about it, as about 97.623 % of the content is copyrighted, and therefore I can not share it with the rest of the scribes. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 03:59:11
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
As this lore feature has been... well.. let's face it... basically made irrelevant by the 4e realms with its time jump and there seems to be no big chance of building up 4e realms lore, activity here went down as it is clear that we are discussing about legacy content here and legacy stuff per default decreases active member participation because one starts questioning the sense of discussing discontinued stuff.
I've found it disappointing that so much discussion of the Realms seems to have been buoyed on corporate support or licence and not the world's content and our campaigns.quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Population changes, also canon evolves.
A deliberate decision imposed from without by a few specific people isn't evolution in any sense I'm aware of.quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
I guess that there is little point in debating, once again, some of the finer points of some 1E and 2E products.
I think discussion of the Realms is very far from entropically played out -- it's dwelt repeatedly on a few areas while leaving many others nearly untouched. (This is partly because some very basic things, like much of how society, trade and magic work and what drives them behind the scenes, has never been set out, only inferred by a relatively few wide-read people.)
As for the moderation of this forum, some of it seems quite deft and sensible to me, but I haven't paid enough attention even to the whole public picture to have strong views. |
Edited by - Faraer on 14 Mar 2010 05:39:10 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 07:40:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
I guess that there is little point in debating, once again, some of the finer points of some 1E and 2E products.
I think discussion of the Realms is very far from entropically played out -- it's dwelt repeatedly on a few areas while leaving many others nearly untouched. (This is partly because some very basic things, like much of how society, trade and magic work and what drives them behind the scenes, has never been set out, only inferred by a relatively few wide-read people.)
As for the moderation of this forum, some of it seems quite deft and sensible to me, but I haven't paid enough attention even to the whole public picture to have strong views.
As for the moderation of the forum, I agree - Wooly, Sage et. al. are probably among the most common-sense moderators that I've seen on any forum.
I agree that there is a lot of uncharted space, even in the Realms, and even some of the locales treated in canon can probably be developed even further, with additional NPCs, locales, changes, etc. My favourite area has always been Waterdeep, Daggerford, the area south, to the Troll Hills, and Dragonspear Castle. I added a lot of villages, but many of these were inspired (or outright copied) from other published materials: 1E and 2E non-FR modules and sourcebooks, Dragon magazine, and Dungeon magazine. I find it interesting, but I keep thinking that it's off little interest to write a thread, "look - this is how I integrated Marais de Tarascon from Night of the Walking Dead in the general Daggerford area...", given that few people would have access to the source material, and that there is little that I could write otherwise without breaching of copyright.
P.S. Night of the Walking Dead is probably a bad example, as it is available from the WotC website... My bad. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 08:53:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
[quote]As for the moderation of this forum, some of it seems quite deft and sensible to me, but I haven't paid enough attention even to the whole public picture to have strong views.
As for the moderation of the forum, I agree - Wooly, Sage et. al. are probably among the most common-sense moderators that I've seen on any forum.
Well, we always try to play fair. But we can't always ensure that one side or another of a debate won't feel slighted, even partially, by our judgements. Which is why we're always open to positive constructive feedback about our moderation efforts here.
If at any time, a scribe is concerned about how we might have handled a particular issue, feel free to contact us via PM to discuss the matter further. We welcome any and all feedback. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 14 Mar 2010 08:55:47 |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 09:53:21
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| Eh, I was never the most prolific poster to begin with, but my interest in the Realms is close to dead now. I've got other games running, either set in Golarion, or my Star Wars Legacy Era game, and it's just... well, I'm enjoying those. I see nothing to discuss about the Realms, beyond hashing out the same arguments time and time again. There's no chance of seeing WoTC publish pre-Spellplague books, or catering to my interests again, or even seeking my opinions, so little point taking part in the Realms anymore. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 10:00:06
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| That, and my only posts would be responses to the WoTC employees who come on here asking for suggestions on what we'd want to see. Those responses wouldn't exactly be PG friendly. |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 11:12:45
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| it would always be possible for a bunch of scribes to get together to write up their own "non-official", amateur take on the realms, if enough people get on it it would build a critical mass...it might only be fan-fic but continuity wouldnt be a problem if if was shared.....just a thought...after all its what spawned Pathfinder after all... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 12:02:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
As this lore feature has been... well.. let's face it... basically made irrelevant by the 4e realms with its time jump and there seems to be no big chance of building up 4e realms lore, activity here went down as it is clear that we are discussing about legacy content here and legacy stuff per default decreases active member participation because one starts questioning the sense of discussing discontinued stuff.
I've found it disappointing that so much discussion of the Realms seems to have been buoyed on corporate support or licence and not the world's content and our campaigns.quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Population changes, also canon evolves.
A deliberate decision imposed from without by a few specific people isn't evolution in any sense I'm aware of.quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
I guess that there is little point in debating, once again, some of the finer points of some 1E and 2E products.
I think discussion of the Realms is very far from entropically played out -- it's dwelt repeatedly on a few areas while leaving many others nearly untouched. (This is partly because some very basic things, like much of how society, trade and magic work and what drives them behind the scenes, has never been set out, only inferred by a relatively few wide-read people.)
As for the moderation of this forum, some of it seems quite deft and sensible to me, but I haven't paid enough attention even to the whole public picture to have strong views.
That more or less sums it up for me.
My lack of participation has little to do with 4ed. as my dislike for the 3ed. was enough to keep me from caring much what happens. Its just that I find Candlekeep to be much less interesting that it was. There are several factors in this for me, but I wont go into that.
Unfortunately it is difficult for me to take any initiative concerning threads myself, as my ideas for the Realms are both outdated (and not by 4ed.) and heavily non-canon.
In no way am I tired of the Realms, but I find that I prefer lurking at Dragonsfoot and reading Grognardia instead of participating much in the fan-community. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 15:07:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
it would always be possible for a bunch of scribes to get together to write up their own "non-official", amateur take on the realms, if enough people get on it it would build a critical mass...it might only be fan-fic but continuity wouldnt be a problem if if was shared.....just a thought...after all its what spawned Pathfinder after all...
Unfortunately, due to the fact that there is no fan-site policy, any amateur material (like what has been published in past Candlekeep Compendiums) could be claimed by WotC/Hasbro as IP infringement. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 18:56:39
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I've gotta say, that I feel that wotc are trying to make a world of warcraft board game with the 4 ed. I think its sad... just sad. Im not saying that 4.ed is not for everyone, some might like it, but the fact that there was so much lore, was the coolest thing about the realms. Thats the same reason why i find Middle earth so cool! There is so much background knowledge and legends that make up the whole experience so much cooler and worth while. And thats what i miss with 4.ed. to me they are trying to make some easy money.
Well back to topic... I just ranted... sorry! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 20:50:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
I find it interesting, but I keep thinking that it's off little interest to write a thread, "look - this is how I integrated Marais de Tarascon from Night of the Walking Dead in the general Daggerford area...", given that few people would have access to the source material, and that there is little that I could write otherwise without breaching of copyright.
I think those kinds of adaptation notes could definitely be worthwhile. Copyright isn't an issue unless you copy long passages near-verbatim, and inspiring people to seek out good material they don't have is no bad thing! Likewise, the d20 boom and the Old School Renaissance have produced far more scenarios than most people can keep up with, and I for one would like to read which ones people have found synergetic with the Realms, with brief summaries and notes on how they've adapted them. Have any of you read any of Green Ronin's Bleeding Edge adventures line, for instance? |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 21:50:42
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| Haven't read those, but I'm a fan of some of their other books! I for one would love to see an amateur fiction forum added, as I would enjoy telling tales of some of my ideas for my favorite characters/places in the Realms. And it seems that the relative lack of lore after 4th ed could change, if more people began writing about it. I realize that it might be more difficult now, with so many changes having taken place, but let's face it- the only way to add new lore is to make it! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 22:48:14
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Funnily enough, I actually like 4 edition and have never had a problem playing it. But what has really killed my interest in the Realms has been the time jump. I guess maybe I've been playing games set in the realms too long, I've become confortable with the characters and geopolitics of the Realms as they were in the 1350-60s. The Realms of 100 years later is a very different place full of different people.... but it still remains fundamentally the same.
I guess what I'm trying to say is 4 Edition for me, feels too weird. I got the same feeling when I took my niece back to my old school one day last year. It's a very familiar place; same corridors, same classrooms, same damn lockers even, but it's full of complete strangers. It felt totally wrong to be back there.
I get that same creepy, nostalgia killing feeling whenever I pick up a 4e product. So much I simply can't bring myself to become interested.
I suspect many other people have a similar hard time adjusting. The loss of new product to talk about certainly won't help either. |
Edited by - BlackAce on 14 Mar 2010 22:53:14 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2010 : 01:07:48
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I feel the same way... I dont want to like it. So I dont. I dont want to play wow tabletop, i dont want a world where...
Im getting into a rant here again.
you all know how I feel and dont want to get myself too pissed
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2010 : 04:04:21
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familiar ....... but not the same.
bottom line
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2010 : 16:37:26
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Realmslore is there- several articles a month crop up but I think 99% of Candlekeep members do not have DDI subscriptions (which is fine). I've personally had 2 Realmslore articles in the past several months with more on the way. Combine that with the Living campaign and there seems to be a whole slew of lore out there should someone want it. All of this in addition to the novels. I've stopped churning out discussions here for no other reason than I am talking Greek to people about the new lore ;)
As for the WoW comparisons- I think its a simple arguement to stab at the edition. I've never felt I was playing an MMO in 4e and with my extensive MMO experience, I feel its a copout. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and likes/dislikes, so even if I make a rebuke on a comment, I think there is a lot of hatred. |
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bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 04:49:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
it would always be possible for a bunch of scribes to get together to write up their own "non-official", amateur take on the realms, if enough people get on it it would build a critical mass...it might only be fan-fic but continuity wouldnt be a problem if if was shared.....just a thought...after all its what spawned Pathfinder after all...
Unfortunately, due to the fact that there is no fan-site policy, any amateur material (like what has been published in past Candlekeep Compendiums) could be claimed by WotC/Hasbro as IP infringement.
They could claim that, but they wouldn't have a case. Not one that'd stand up in any court of law that I can think of, unless the judge is crooked.
FR had success in editions 1-3 b/c it was a shared world wherein we could take the canon lore, and make our own stories from it to share w/our friends and new friends. That's what the heart and soul of Ed's world was all about. W/that being said, all Snowblood's idea would have to do is state on a website of his idea, that what is contained in the website is NOT canon lore.
What's more, Snowblood's idea operates much like how Living Forgotten Realms (LFR)works, but we're simply saying that we like the old lore better, and we don't want the LFR people, as nice and hardworking as they are, to be our DM's and playmates.
Given all of that, it'd be much more dangerous for WotC/Hasbro to themselves to claim IP infringement, as they wouldn't have a case at all. Rather, it'd open up a whole new can of worms for them, giving occasion for the defendants (if WotC/Hasbro chooses to claim IP infrignement) to thoroughly probe into the how and why 4E is so different from previous editions, even unto tearing down the spirit of how the fanbase community (and the $$$ we've put into buying 1-3E products) made the FR the big fantasy genre that it is. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 10:30:09
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| More printed FR material would be of great benefit to these forums. Who knows, maybe WotC will change their plans and actually print something eventually to add to the 3 4E FR books... |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 10:51:32
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WotC's business model does not support the printing of more books. Instead, you will see the digital initiative expand. I expect all major gaming companies to follow suit in the next 5 years. Printed books will remain, to some extent, but the nature of the beast is that digital is the future. Look at the costs associated with 2nd, 3rd, 4th (etc...) printings. With the digital era, you only need to edit a single document and update accordingly. The same goes for novels, text-books, and any other print media. Now on your iPad or Kindle, your text is updated automatically without having to reprint the books.
My point is that the community should not expect more printed FR sourcebooks. If you combine all of the FR DDI articles, you can see how this was previously released in supporting products where now it is through DDI. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 14:00:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
WotC's business model does not support the printing of more books. Instead, you will see the digital initiative expand. I expect all major gaming companies to follow suit in the next 5 years. Printed books will remain, to some extent, but the nature of the beast is that digital is the future. Look at the costs associated with 2nd, 3rd, 4th (etc...) printings. With the digital era, you only need to edit a single document and update accordingly. The same goes for novels, text-books, and any other print media. Now on your iPad or Kindle, your text is updated automatically without having to reprint the books.
My point is that the community should not expect more printed FR sourcebooks. If you combine all of the FR DDI articles, you can see how this was previously released in supporting products where now it is through DDI.
I have heard cries of the death of the printed book and the vinyl for years. Strangely enough they are still here. And in the case of the vinyl more or less rising from the dead. The digital media is one the rise, but the fate of printed material is still not decided. And with a niche product like the RPG I wouldn't be all that sure what will happen.
Thankfully there's always someone that finds the old fashioned niche of the market. Its been like that with all changes. It might not be anything that has anything to do with WotC, but thankfully there are more than enough old-school products out there. With a hell of more right to the D&D name I could add, but that is a personal opinion. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 16 Mar 2010 14:50:13 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 14:43:59
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Still here as well, but ATM I have rather littel time to contibute much.
Anyhow, with regard to the 4e I have nothing to say. This is not due to the fact that I have nothing good to say about 4e, and therefore better to say nothing at all. It's rather that I have no experience with 4e at all, can't call a single 4e-sourcebook (FR or other) my own and have stopped reading Dragon and Dungeon magazine in its online format. Therefore, I cannot contribute to any 4e discussion, as discussion is based disagreement over knowledge and experience.
However, let it be known that Ergdusch is lurking in these great halls of Candlekeep and contributes whenever and wherever he feels the need to do so. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 15:55:32
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I am thinking back just 3 years ago or less, we discussed any and everything. No flames, no threats of locking down a scroll, just good debate. Thats not the case now. Seems many scribes (on either side of many various arguements) are quick to call foul and flag down a moderator and they put the hammer down. (What choice do they have, once called in they have to use their best judgement to serve the site and it's members) What happened to debate? Open and free? I see alot of stuff everyday that irks me...or lights a small fire under me....I ignore it, post as if it was not there or move on. Why take great offense and ruin the debate for all. I think we are all guilty of taking the 4e v.s 3e vs. blah blah blah....to personally. Not to mention other scribes opinions on them. I dont think the moderators have done anything other then what they must, but I think discussion here has been stiffled. When was the last time I looged on and saw more than 4 active users?? I remember 18-20 with many more Lurkers....I know of 8 or 9 users who were regular contributors, now either lurk or never come here at all. I know some are on pins and needles not wanting to tick of wotc....but this site needs different opinions....if we all agree on everything, the realms would be a sad static place wouldn't it?
Something... happened 3 years ago. Something that split the scribes here at the keep as badly as the Time of Troubles, probably worse than that. That split, that divide, has yet to heal. I think the ToT took more than 5 years for some. For some, they never came back. For others, they get dragged back every once in a while.
I've personally been active more as of late. I'm more concerned with pre-1380's lore, and how to twist things into a fun, yet strange, campaign. I think that everyone is entitled to their opinions on 3.x vs 4e. The problem is that there were a lot of old guard that really enjoyed 3.x and prior lore, and the 4e lore doesn't suit their play style anymore. That is why I think some aren't here anymore. I know for fact that's the case with one scribe in particular. Me? I'll keep fighting the good fight. I don't care what type of system you're using, just get a good story out there. Can it be done in any edition? Yep. Do I prefer any edition(s) over others? Yep.
It's all a matter of perspective.
And Matt: I agree about the electronic format becoming more important. That's probably the biggest thing for some of us here, both in good ways and bad.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2010 : 16:12:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
If you combine all of the FR DDI articles, you can see how this was previously released in supporting products where now it is through DDI.
About what annual volume are the current DDI Realms articles at, Matt? |
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What happened to Open ,Free and Spirited Debate?
