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Bellua Aeneus Lacerta
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Aug 2003 : 00:28:05
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Finally decided to give this a read. I've had the first two books for quite awhile, but finally got the third coming in the mail
I really liked these books so far, even if they have histoical inaccuracies, or too much historical fact(depending on your viewpoint). I can start to see at the end of the second book where this would be a cool place to "play" for awhile.
edit:Hey--this trilogy has Drow in it too
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Edited by - Bellua Aeneus Lacerta on 11 Aug 2003 00:29:49
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Bellua Aeneus Lacerta
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2003 : 12:37:33
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Holy Slow gas!
It's gonna take about an hour for me to download that!
(Ok, next weekend ) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2003 : 12:48:57
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If time is a problem, I would suggest using a download accelerator, like FlashGet for example. Another adequate manager is Go!Zilla, (although this one has some OS conflicts). Both are free to download.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 11 Aug 2003 12:49:39 |
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Zimeros
Learned Scribe
Brazil
121 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2003 : 12:49:58
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| Maztica! I LOVE Maztica, in my first topic in this forum I write of Maztica! I want buy the Maztica basic books, but I don't find who may sell. Of course that I will make a dowload of free expansion. |
"Gods protect children and drunks" |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2003 : 17:09:22
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So how do you all rate this trilogy? I must say that ive never had the urge to read them as its not really "Realms flavor" and copies too much from Earth culture\history. I may be greatly mistaken though.....as Bellua states, it has drow!! 
One thing I need to ask though....... are there any firearms involved? |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2003 : 19:08:57
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It has very little drow in it at all. No firearms, but steel and horses were enough. Even the dwarves in Maztica had to use obsidian blades; only a few had metal weapons, and those all dated from when they came to the area. No forges, no mining.
I don't recomend it, but then I think I've mentioned that. Read it if you want. Just don't expect much more than a rewrite of Earth history. At least it doesn't show all the Aztec-analogs to be cute and fluffy, like revisionists say. He put in the human sacrifices; actually, it was very well done. I think he must have read up on how we think the ceremonies were conducted before writing those passages.
I don't have much of a problem with the setting, mind you. It's just the unoriginal storyline. |
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Zimeros
Learned Scribe
Brazil
121 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2003 : 20:14:59
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| I think if you want to learn a lot of things of "Maztica in the real world" or Mayan-Aztec culture you need play the game Age of Empires II, Expansion, The conquerors, of Microsoft and Esemble. It's a good form for you learn the true history of central america(and of world), playing a real-time strategy game. Bookwyrm, are you right that doesn't exist firearms in maztican campaign? I think exist the primitive arms(in portuguese: arcabuz) of Lantan. The free expansion is very very good! But now I need to read the maztica trilogy, Iron Helm, Viper Hand and Feathered Dragon, but I don't have this books, does exist the free dowload of it, too? |
"Gods protect children and drunks" |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2003 : 01:58:03
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No, I'm not sure that it wasn't in there. I just don't remember it. (And that's close to our word for it, which isn't English anyway: the arquebus. A primitive firearm that you didn't even aim, just pointed and hoped for a hit . . . . Oh, and hoped it didn't blow up in your face.)
As for the books, I think you'll have to get them used. Try Half.com or The American Book Exchange for used copies. If you can't find them there I think I know of some local shops that have copies. However, they'll all be in English; I've no idea where to get one in Portugese, if you were wanting that. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2003 : 16:25:31
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Zimeros said -
quote:
I think if you want to learn a lot of things of "Maztica in the real world" or Mayan-Aztec culture you need play the game Age of Empires II, Expansion, The conquerors, of Microsoft and Esemble.
Although well crafted and designed (for a Microsoft game), it does have it's fill of technological and historical fact inaccuracies. I will send you (via ethereal mail) a small listing I made - of things that were incorrect - when I first starting playing through the game and the set of scenarios.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2003 : 19:26:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
No, I'm not sure that it wasn't in there. I just don't remember it. (And that's close to our word for it, which isn't English anyway: the arquebus. A primitive firearm that you didn't even aim, just pointed and hoped for a hit . . . . Oh, and hoped it didn't blow up in your face.)
As for the books, I think you'll have to get them used. Try Half.com or The American Book Exchange for used copies. If you can't find them there I think I know of some local shops that have copies. However, they'll all be in English; I've no idea where to get one in Portugese, if you were wanting that.
Thanks for the link to the "Americian Book Exchange"...Just got started on my own collection. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 10:16:03
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| I may be starting this trilogy in a couple of months. I'm a little reluctant to do so, however. Any more reviews on these books? |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2005 : 00:33:40
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| I highly recommend this trilogy. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2005 : 07:07:07
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I've never given this trilogy a shot... In fact, I just recently acquired it. I was refusing to buy it, earlier, but decided to get it for the sake of completeness.
Why have I avoided it? I didn't like the Moonshae trilogy all that much. I've no reason to expect this one to be better. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2005 : 08:37:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've never given this trilogy a shot... In fact, I just recently acquired it. I was refusing to buy it, earlier, but decided to get it for the sake of completeness.
I had a similar experience. I didn't purchase this trilogy for a very long time -- several years in fact (after its initial release). And even after I purchased the three books, it took quite a long time for me to finally decide to read them -- especially when you consider all the other prevalent Realms novels being released at the time (1998).
Having said that, I read the trilogy shortly after I finished Evermeet. It was what I expected, and that is to say that it is a tale with little actual "Realms" flavor -- an interesting story nonetheless.
I doubt I'll read it again though...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 24 Jul 2005 08:38:08 |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2005 : 12:31:03
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I found it entertaining, but, like many have said before, just a re-write of earth history. It's well written though, I think, and fun to read. Just not very FR.
To spread this topic out a little, I've always disliked Maztica, Kara-Tur and Zakhara (sp?) as part of the realms, and don't include them in my home game. I do, however, plan on using the continent that Maztica is on at some point, but just not as an Aztec copy. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Neo2151
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2005 : 08:21:51
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| As I'm currently begining Feathered Dragon, I must say I've really enjoyed the Maztica trilogy so far. Though, i'll definitly agree it has very little realms flavor, but honestly, neither did the Druidhome trilogy or the Moonshae trilogy. Not to bash Doug Niles, as i've enjoyed all his reads, it's just it seems like he borrowed a world to do his own thing. Honestly, I bought the Maztica trilogy for completeness, and as I said, it doesn't feel very realms like, it IS still a very good read. Just don't go in expecting the usual. |
"Come looking for me, and I will blast you to dust, and then lay waste to all your descendants, ancestors, and the realm you came from, every last tree and stone of it. Why? Well, it's what I usually do."
-Baerendra Riverhand on The Story of Spellfire |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2005 : 00:48:02
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Many people say it but I still don't understand their meaning. How can a novel in the realms not seem "Realms-like" or "Realmsy".
Are you really saying that a novel set in Waterdeep doesn't feel like a novel set in Calimport? Or that a novel set in Maztica doesn't feel like a novel set in Chult. Of course they don't feel the same. Geographically they are in different settings.
Some Realms novels are murder mysteries; some are action adventures, while some are history novels. None of these feel more or less "Realms-like" to me.
The great thing about the Realms (to me anyway), are its diverse cultures and diverse writing styles of its authors. Salvatore writes nothing like Greenwood. Nor do Niles and Cunningham. But they are *all* wonderful stories set in the Forgotten Realms. Neither one feels more like the Realms than the other.
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 05:19:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Realmslore
Many people say it but I still don't understand their meaning. How can a novel in the realms not seem "Realms-like" or "Realmsy".
Are you really saying that a novel set in Waterdeep doesn't feel like a novel set in Calimport? Or that a novel set in Maztica doesn't feel like a novel set in Chult. Of course they don't feel the same. Geographically they are in different settings.
Some Realms novels are murder mysteries; some are action adventures, while some are history novels. None of these feel more or less "Realms-like" to me.
The great thing about the Realms (to me anyway), are its diverse cultures and diverse writing styles of its authors. Salvatore writes nothing like Greenwood. Nor do Niles and Cunningham. But they are *all* wonderful stories set in the Forgotten Realms. Neither one feels more like the Realms than the other.
I would agree with MOST of that statement, but I have yet to read a Realms novel that is historical as applies to earth. They attempt, yes, but well they just are NOT historical nor should they be. Read Nigel Tranter for the history.
Moonshaes was the FIRST FR trilogy. I find it very hard to accuse that of NOT Feeling like the realms because it was the first. Maybe the other books after it failed to feel like the realms? The Druid Home trilogy was VERY realms. Remember the Elf eater? Who sent that? Oh yeah! MALAR. Douglas Niles weaved Celtic lore into the realms quite nicely.
But OK Maztica? That was an attempt at writing a historical account. All it did was expose people to very basic 5th grade history. It was well written and a good story. But that was coming around the time when it looked like the realms were going to PARALLEL earth history. I am all for the feel of earth history, as in setting specific areas to represent earth cultures and the like, but Cortez, Pizzaro, and Ghenghis Khan are NOT part of the realms.
The best thing I got out of Maztica was actually fleshing out Amn, making it a picture of Moorish Spain. Oh yeah.. and I admit... I have a general in the Amnish army named... ahem.. Cortez. But he fights off the Sythillisians.
I have actually been toying with a Conquistador regional Prestige class for Amn.
I am such a sucker for the Spanish Empire. It is one of my favourite periods of history. ANd age of Empires is only ever a good INTRODUCTION to the period of history. It is very difficult to garnish any information out of it, unless you have some prior knowledge to build on.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 06:37:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
I have actually been toying with a Conquistador regional Prestige class for Amn.
And just how far along are you? I wouldn't mind seeing what you can come up with for this...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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jklang
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 02:24:50
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| For me, this series was hard to start out. I bought them when they first came out and throughout the years was never able to get into them enough to complete the trilogy. But about two years ago I was finally able to read them all and really enjoyedt he trilogy. Same with the Empires trilogy. Both trilogies are hard to start out, but once you get used to the new terminologies, both Maztica and Empires are enjoyable reads. |
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Bellua Aeneus Lacerta
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 15:34:27
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| I think I liked them BECAUSE they weren't `Realmsy'. They were more like a story from Toril. There is a whole planet that the Dales are on, you know |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 16:33:50
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My thoughts exactly!
quote:
Originally posted by Bellua Aeneus Lacerta
I think I liked them BECAUSE they weren't `Realmsy'. They were more like a story from Toril. There is a whole planet that the Dales are on, you know
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 18:57:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Realmslore
How can a novel in the realms not seem "Realms-like" or "Realmsy".
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Neither one feels more like the Realms than the other.
If this was true, the Realms wouldn't be a coherent setting at all, just a collection of different stories unconnected in feel and nature, merely linked by shared geography and other 'brute facts'. Though it isn't one specific narrow register, but an envelope that varies by time, place, etc.
The Realms feel, its spirit, is by far the most important thing about the Realms -- it *is* the Realms -- and we most certainly can say that certain authors capture it better or worse than others.
The original Moonshae trilogy certainly doesn't feel like the Realms, because it wasn't written for the Realms or with any knowledge of the Realms. That's why Ed Greenwood was directed to Realmsify it in FA1 Halls of the High King. |
Edited by - Faraer on 14 Aug 2005 19:01:21 |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 21:29:05
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
I have actually been toying with a Conquistador regional Prestige class for Amn.
And just how far along are you? I wouldn't mind seeing what you can come up with for this...
Currently I am in the south region of Arizona. No books here except for FR campaign, Underdark, and City of Splendors. When I get home I wanted to work on the prestige class.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2005 : 08:38:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Realmslore
Many people say it but I still don't understand their meaning. How can a novel in the realms not seem "Realms-like" or "Realmsy".
All of the novels that deal with pseudo-Earth cultures (like the Maztica trilogy) may be damn fine novels, but for Realms content they are quite obvious tack-ons to the original campaign setting.
FR novels have to give you a sense of place and people. Incongruous elements (like Shou junks in the Inner Sea or Genghis ... err .. the Khahan invading the 'western lands') really jar me out of the story thread. I want FR names, FR references and elements that aren't already in print that are unique to the Realms. That's why I love Ed's novels. You are always going to get a unique food, or drink or term of address or card game or insult or ... heck, just about anything. That's what is 'realmsy': not writing a book set in Murann and not providing any information on the place other than what we all know as FR fans already. Good FR novels give you new FR references and information. Poor FR novels trot out or regurgitate stuff that is already there.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2005 : 00:15:20
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And bad FR novels ignore or contradict established Realmslore. I’m sure all longtime Realms readers can think of their own “favourite” examples; I’m not interested in naming names and digging up corpses.
But I well remember Ed’s exasperated reply to a certain senior TSR designer at a long-ago GenCon, about a real-world name being used “as is” for something in the Realms: “Evoke, man, evoke! Don’t jarringly copy real-world stuff! REMIND us of historical stuff, don’t COPY it! You’re getting PAID to be a designer, remember! I know history teachers generally make more than game designers, but . . .”
This got a roar of applause. I just wish Ed’s words had been heeded. Then I wouldn’t have had to sit through TSR designers arguing about whether or not Purple Dragon cavalry should have stirrups or not (because of real-world history) or Waterdeep’s population should only be this much (because of their grade school history assumptions about real-world medieval population), and so on and on and on.
Stallions named Avalon? Burrrr. The Dalai Lama (the DALAI LAMA?) in the Realms as an NPC player characters can kill, in an FR module?
Sigh.
THO
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2005 : 01:00:27
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 One of my favourites was the town of "Guidodale" on the northern borders of Impiltur. When I e-queried Ed once re anything he may have on this place, his dry reply was "Guidodale? Right next to Sanducci-town, perhaps? Nope, not one of mine." It still makes me grin.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2005 : 01:07:54
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Maztica is no more or less based on pseudo-Earth culture than Faerûn is. Faerûn is clearly based on a pseudo-European culture. This can not be disputed. If you want something with little or no Earth culture comparisons, try Dark Sun.
I for one enjoy the 'tacked-on' environments. It makes Toril a living breathing *world*, instead of yet another single continent pseudo-European fantasy setting.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
All of the novels that deal with pseudo-Earth cultures (like the Maztica trilogy) may be damn fine novels, but for Realms content they are quite obvious tack-ons to the original campaign setting.
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2005 : 01:36:22
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The Realms somewhat resembles medieval Europe not because it's based on it but because that's part of the convention of swords and sorcery, which it is based on. Everything that makes the Realms the Realms -- a distinct setting and not characterless quasi-medieval fantasy -- is its implementation of that genre, based on multitudinous influences and person-decades of creativity. The ancient empires, the terminology, bloodlines, the national cultures and the fantastic cultures of adventurers, mages, secret societies, the monstrous ecology, how names sound, how people see the world, speech patterns and figures of speech, magic -- all of these, and yet they're manifestations, epiphenomena, of the spirit of the Realms. Basing nations on specific nations of Earth is foreign to that design philosophy, as Ed has discussed several times and is acknowledged by all good Realms authors and by Wizards of the Coast. Otherwise, as I said, there is no Realms, just an incoherent patchwork jumble.
The Realms lived and breathed for 20 years before those extra marginal bits -- most of them commercial and artistic failures that permanently hurt the integrity and reputation of the Realms and treated it as a dumping ground -- were bolted on, not emerging organically from the setting but crudely stapled to it, and has no trouble living and breathing now that they're rightly avoided in the sourcebooks and fiction. |
Edited by - Faraer on 16 Aug 2005 02:03:18 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2005 : 01:59:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Realmslore
Maztica is no more or less based on pseudo-Earth culture than Faerûn is. Faerûn is clearly based on a pseudo-European culture. This can not be disputed. If you want something with little or no Earth culture comparisons, try Dark Sun.
Yeah, but there's a difference. The Heartlands are inspired by medieval Europe, but there are no direct parallels. Maztica, on the other hand, is the New World with magic and more deities.
I think the complaints are that using such a direct parallel draws one out of the fantasy, so to speak. |
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Maztica Trilogy
