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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 15:18:07
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Hi...
Ive been looking for information about the shadow wars and I cant find any. Where should I look?? And could some tell me when the was... in DR!
Thx
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 17:53:46
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| A little context would help... |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 19:23:11
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| The only Shadow Wars I know of involved the drow and Cormanthyr, and started in -470 DR (Year of Perdition's Flame). All of the info I could find was timeline entries in Cormanthyr, which is a free download from the Wizards downloads page, and duplicates of those entries in the Grand History of the Realms. |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 02:22:06
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Wooly, I think he means the Shadow Wars that the Harpers had with the
Malaug in the Shadow plane.
Nicolai look in the Harpers Handbook if that was what you were
talking about. There is some info there, I can't remember how
much detail though. |
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Nightseer
Acolyte
45 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 03:11:59
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| Is the Harper Handbook a scroll here, or do you mean Code of the Harpers? |
Shar! |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 03:52:48
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He means Code of the Harpers. And that conflict was called the Harpstars War. The OP term "shadow wars" is so incredibly vague that it's impossible to know what they meant. A little context about who was fighting, or the general time frame (now, recent past, distant past, etc.), or any information, really, is needed before we can actually answer the question.
I guess I've spent too much time over on the CO boards at WotC. I feel like this is the Realmslore equivalent of the people who come by and say, "Make me the bestest character evar!" And the people who actually know what they're doing are left scratching their heads, going, "Available books? An idea of what you actually want? Heavens forfend an actual build of your own?"
There, as here, we're more than happy to help. We need some effort from the OP first, however. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Nightseer
Acolyte
45 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 06:41:03
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| Good I have been meaning to buy that tome. |
Shar! |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 14:01:38
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| It's a good tome. I like it a great deal. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Nightseer
Acolyte
45 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 14:04:03
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Just ordered a copy. |
Shar! |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 13:51:34
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| Actually I was trying the to find the Srinshees age, and since she was one of the last survivors from "the Shadow War" drow vs elves" I was asking that question instead! |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 14:07:24
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Right, and this is why we need context. Especially with something as vague as a "shadow war." There have been dozens of conflicts that could fit that description throughout published lore.
Now that we know what you're actually looking for, we might have a chance of finding it. I'm afb so I can't look, but I'd suggest looking in the Grand History of the Realms as a starting point. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 14:35:36
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The Shadow War takes place in the year 2260. At this time, Babylon 5 has broken away from the xenophobic Clark administration on Earth. Ties between Minbar, the breakaway Earth Alliance colonies and League of Non-Aligned Worlds are strengthened as the Shadows begin to move against them more openly.
Um... Am I on the right boards? |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 14:55:17
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| No... but that's a brilliant response to this stupidly-posed question. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 15:21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
The Shadow War takes place in the year 2260. At this time, Babylon 5 has broken away from the xenophobic Clark administration on Earth. Ties between Minbar, the breakaway Earth Alliance colonies and League of Non-Aligned Worlds are strengthened as the Shadows begin to move against them more openly.
Um... Am I on the right boards?
Oooh! Mr. Morden -- human with a derivative of the Shade Template? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 15:24:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
No... but that's a brilliant response to this stupidly-posed question.
I don't think it was stupidly posed... He was asking about something literally called the Shadow Wars. Sure, a reference would have been nice, but other than a lack of capitalization, he asked about exactly the thing he wanted info on. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 15:29:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
The Shadow War takes place in the year 2260. At this time, Babylon 5 has broken away from the xenophobic Clark administration on Earth. Ties between Minbar, the breakaway Earth Alliance colonies and League of Non-Aligned Worlds are strengthened as the Shadows begin to move against them more openly.
Um... Am I on the right boards?
Oooh! Mr. Morden -- human with a derivative of the Shade Template?
Did you... Did you just compare Mr. Morden to Artemis Entreri?
(Oh god, here we go again. Another version of Dr. Who in the Realms...) |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 15:36:40
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I guess that the question: How Old Is the Srinshee???? Would have pleased people more!
So How old the Srinshee??? Thats what I want to know... **** the Shadow War. I just knew that she was a survivor from that war!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 16:19:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
The Shadow War takes place in the year 2260. At this time, Babylon 5 has broken away from the xenophobic Clark administration on Earth. Ties between Minbar, the breakaway Earth Alliance colonies and League of Non-Aligned Worlds are strengthened as the Shadows begin to move against them more openly.
Um... Am I on the right boards?
Oooh! Mr. Morden -- human with a derivative of the Shade Template?
Did you... Did you just compare Mr. Morden to Artemis Entreri?
(Oh god, here we go again. Another version of Dr. Who in the Realms...)
Morden would make an excellent basis for a FR baddie, though the B5 shades and the FR shades are two wildly different critters... Morden could perhaps be a front man for a powerful Lower Plane baddy, thinks I.
Though if I was going to adopt a B5 bad guy for the Realms, I think I'd have to go with Dark Chekov Bester, first. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 16:34:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
The Shadow War takes place in the year 2260. At this time, Babylon 5 has broken away from the xenophobic Clark administration on Earth. Ties between Minbar, the breakaway Earth Alliance colonies and League of Non-Aligned Worlds are strengthened as the Shadows begin to move against them more openly.
Um... Am I on the right boards?
Oooh! Mr. Morden -- human with a derivative of the Shade Template?
Did you... Did you just compare Mr. Morden to Artemis Entreri?
(Oh god, here we go again. Another version of Dr. Who in the Realms...)
Morden would make an excellent basis for a FR baddie, though the B5 shades and the FR shades are two wildly different critters... Morden could perhaps be a front man for a powerful Lower Plane baddy, thinks I.
Though if I was going to adopt a B5 bad guy for the Realms, I think I'd have to go with Dark Chekov Bester, first.
I was just thinking of Bester. Although, he'd probably be more like Khelben or Vandergahast...  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 16:52:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I guess that the question: How Old Is the Srinshee???? Would have pleased people more!
So How old the Srinshee??? Thats what I want to know... **** the Shadow War. I just knew that she was a survivor from that war!
Yes. Asking what you actually want answered is always a good idea. Providing extra information that could help us narrow it down is also a good idea. So something along the lines of: "I'm trying to figure out how old the Srinshee is. I know she was a survivor of the Shadow War, but can't find references to it. I've checked [insert list of books here] and no luck. Can you help?" It's amazing the difference being polite and complete makes.
Now, as to your question, the short answer is I don't know. Several thousand years at least. I'm afb right now, but places I want to check are Cormanthyr and A Grand History of the Realms. If you can check them faster, that's fine. If not, I'll look around when I get home tonight. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 16:54:27
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| I don't think Bester's all that much like Khelben or Vangey. But I think either of them would employ him in a heartbeat. Moonstars, anyone? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 17:01:01
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| Thank you for you advise on my questioneering and on the info! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 17:10:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Morden would make an excellent basis for a FR baddie, though the B5 shades and the FR shades are two wildly different critters... Morden could perhaps be a front man for a powerful Lower Plane baddy, thinks I.
Preferably, an ancient demon-lord, I think. Or the chaotic equivalent of the ancient Baatorians.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I don't think Bester's all that much like Khelben or Vangey. But I think either of them would employ him in a heartbeat. Moonstars, anyone?
I'd say more Khelben than Vangey. Among their many similar personality traits, Bester's demonstrated a willingness to work with his enemies, but only if it also helps him advance his own agenda. Much like the Blackstaff. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 17:23:47
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Wow... this thread has all the makings of a WotC thread...
there's more derailment here then actual meat.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 17:24:29
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Morden would make an excellent basis for a FR baddie, though the B5 shades and the FR shades are two wildly different critters... Morden could perhaps be a front man for a powerful Lower Plane baddy, thinks I.
Preferably, an ancient demon-lord, I think. Or the chaotic equivalent of the ancient Baatorians.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I don't think Bester's all that much like Khelben or Vangey. But I think either of them would employ him in a heartbeat. Moonstars, anyone?
I'd say more Khelben than Vangey. Among their many similar personality traits, Bester's demonstrated a willingness to work with his enemies, but only if it also helps him advance his own agenda. Much like the Blackstaff.
Agreed on both counts. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 18:23:51
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| I agree as well with Khelben. I brought Vangey in because of of the War Wizards/PsiCorp link, which is a much better fit than the Moonstars to PsiCorp, IMHO. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 23:07:56
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Ok, I've checked my books, and unfortunately, the answer is there isn't a clear answer. The Shrinshee is a mystery. She doesn't appear in Grand History until the 300's DR, which doesn't help, and in Cormanthyr its vague. She was in Yrlaphon, which existed from -1535 DR to -722 DR. Since she's noted as becoming a baelnorn in -712, and elves don't become baelnorn until they reach the end of their lives (usually), we can probably date her at least as far back as -1200 DR.
If, however, she really did grow up in Sharrven, then she's considerably older. Sharrven existed from -7660 DR to -2770 DR. That's just unconfirmed rumor, though. So she's at least 2500 years old, and could be double that or more.
All this comes from from Cormanthyr, btw. Like I said, Grand History was a bust, and there really isn't much else on her beyond Fall of Myth Drannor (where she disappears) and a few cameos in Ed novels, which don't deal with her past. I skimmed the rest of my library, but didn't see anything else of much use. Anyone have any more ideas?
Incidentally, your original query about the Shadow War: that was the war between the drow of Maerimydra and the elves of Cormanthor and Rystall Wood. It's referenced briefly in the Shadowdale book of the 2e Revised FR Campaign Setting. The drow city itself might not actually have gotten its name until City of the Spider Queen; at any rate for a long, long time it was just "the drow beneath Shadowdale that used to rule the northern dales." CotSQ shows some of the history from the drow side, like the forward supply base that's become an isolated backwater. There's also a little bit about it in Eilistraee's section of Demihuman Deities, under Major Centers of Worship.
See what you get if you put a little thought and effort into your question? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 23:30:31
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Thanks for the reply...
Ive found this on D&D wikipedia: "The true age of the Srinshee was virtually unknown, as is much about this mysterious and powerful woman; like many of great age and experience, misdirection and duplicity are essential for protecting her secrets. As many doubt her stories of being a young lass among the boughs of Sharrven as believe them. However, it is known and proven that one of her homes was among the elves of Yrlaphon before it fell to the orcs of Vastar, making her among the oldest elves ever to walk Toril."
What do you get out of this?
It does not make much sence to me, since im not that deep in the primodial Lore |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 00:23:17
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That's taken word for word (literal copy-paste) from her write-up in Cormanthyr. It means exactly what I posted before, that her true age and most of her history is entirely unknown. Sharrven and Yrlaphon are two fallen elven empires (Sharrven was in the southern High Forest below the Star Mounts and Yrlaphon was east of Cormanthor, south of present-day Mulmaster). I posted the dates they existed, which you can use as rough guidelines.
End result: she's as old as you want her to be. She could be (relatively) young, born in the dying days of Yrlaphon, or she could have been one of the early people of Sharrven and fought in the Seven Citadels War against the daemonfey. It's all up to you, there aren't any specifics. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 00:55:35
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| I know that when it comes down to it she is as old as I want her to be, but in "The Fall of Myth-Drannor" her age is discribed as ?-666DR but she is talked about as being alive at the time Eltagrim was Corolal. But you said that she turned baelnorn in -712... Am I missing something or just stupid. I seem to have a problem adding things up! |
Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 11 Jun 2009 00:56:21 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 01:10:41
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Your mis-reading the table in Fall of Myth Drannor. It gives her birth as "?" and death as "666," five years after Eltargrim died. Oh, and it's coronal, by the way.
If you don't have it, what you really want is the Cormanthyr supplement. There it has more specific dates. It still doesn't give her birth, or anything more specific than the passage already cited, but does say she became a baelnorn in -712, and was restored to life in 212 (this is shown in the novel Elminster in Myth Drannor).
Of course, she didn't actually die in DR 666. That's just when she disappeared with the Rule Blade. We don't learn what she's been up to until the short story Tears So White in the Realms of Elves book, though there are hints in El in Hell. But for the purposes of the Fall of Myth Drannor adventure, she's as good as dead because she's removed and doesn't factor into the fighting. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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The Shadow Wars
