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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jun 2003 : 08:40:19
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i think u could put all the problems u found in DnD here.
I got three of them
first, if u want to make a warrior/rogue or whatever/rogue, u should start with the rogue first, and then with the other class since u get much more skill points like that.
i think its a problem because that means that every character should start with a rogue level if they want to have skill points. To loose a level compared with to gain 32 points... without counting the other profits that the rogue gives u.
second, the ranger. If u have one level of ranger, u gain the Track feat, the ambidextry fea, the two weapon fighting feat and the first favored ennemy. If u want to make a warrior fighting with two weapons, u should take one level of ranger, is it normal?
not really, and obviously when after that u don't gain anything at all for 3 levels at least. So u just take one level of ranger and that's it.
third, check the benefits of the priest domains out. look first on those which are in the player's hand book and then those that are in the defenders of the faith, like speed domain...
im curious to hear u
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ShadowPavement
Acolyte
11 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2003 : 14:28:51
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As far as the ranger problem goes WOC seems to be taking care of that with the revised rules that will be out this summer. They've altered the two weapon fighting rules so that your ranger can chose to be either a two weapon fighter or an effective ranged combatant. They also spread out the rangers powers a little more evenly and made animal empathy a class ability instead of a skill. Overall the revisions to the class seem promising.
As far as what they may be doing with the disparity of skill points when you multiclass as a rogue I'm not too sure about. My first instinct is to say that anyone should multiclass in such a way that is appropriate for their character regardless of the loss of skill points. But I tend to try to go for character before mechanics.
I think that the prestige domains are pretty good right as they are. They are PRESTIGE domains after all and show an extra level of dedication to your deity beyond what a run of the mill cleric has and that dedication should gain some benefits in the way of granted powers. If it really bothers you just add in some requirements that a cleric must meet before they are able to gain access to a prestige domain. But I think that's a little unfair since they already had to meet quite a few requirements to get the prestige class that allowed them access to that domain in the first place.
Just some thoughts
-ShadowPavement |
Some people would complain if you hanged them with a brand new rope.
-Hanibal Smith |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2003 : 17:27:44
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| 3E certainly went out of it way to make a system that doesn't go too badly wrong even when players abuse it (min-maxing their characters), but it's not perfect. All you have to do, though, is to dismiss those 'problems' as rules artefacts and not allow them to influence your character choices. Play the Forgotten Realms using the D&D rules, not D&D with the Realms pasted on top. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2003 : 06:24:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Play the Forgotten Realms using the D&D rules, not D&D with the Realms pasted on top.
Bookwyrm rises and applauds.
Well said, Faraer, well said indeed. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2003 : 13:53:54
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ye, for sure.
but, when u have players that are tied with the rules as far as they think ure a bad DM if u don't follow them exactly, well u just try to make ur own rules
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2003 : 17:22:19
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Sure. It sounds like it's about the social contract between you and your players. I find that campaigns where the *people* involved can't agree on their objective aren't worth the hassle -- same as any other cooperative project. If it was me I'd sit down & tell them what I wanted from the game, ask them what they wanted, explain that the rules are just a tool because you're doing more than run a glorified computer program -- different explanations/arguments work better with different people -- see what compromise you can reach. Because even if the rules didn't have the glitches you perceive, whatever house rules you make, you'll still be playing at cross purposes.
Best GMing-advice book is Robin's Laws of Good Gamemastering. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2003 : 23:11:09
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quote:
Originally posted by eilinel
ye, for sure.
but, when u have players that are tied with the rules as far as they think ure a bad DM if u don't follow them exactly, well u just try to make ur own rules
Eilinel
If someone thinks a DM is bad... CHallenge them to do better!
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2003 : 11:00:30
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it was a long time ago and they didn't know exactly what a DM was. I mean that they stayed on the basic rules because it was like every other games, u know, nobody can cheat the rules.
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2003 : 11:13:19
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another problem is the feats
compare some like dragon toughness or the like or improve critical... and skill focus.
I don't think that any one would take a skill focus if its not to get a prerequisite to have a prestige class. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2003 : 12:34:58
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I disagree. Skill Focus is one of the most creative aspects of 3e. I find alot of my players regularly chose it to create more professional characters, rather than trying to qualify for a PrC.
May your learning be free and unfettered
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2003 : 13:25:54
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well, i think that when u have only one feat per three levels, u don't waste it to get 2 more skill points, and even not counting in the ranks u have!
No, really, its too bad, i changed it for my players, anyway. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2003 : 22:20:14
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Faraer:
quote:
<snip> Play the Forgotten Realms using the D&D rules, not D&D with the Realms pasted on top.
And to that end, I use Chaosium's Basic Role Playing system, not D20, to run FR.
Any world setting wedded to a mechanics system is poorly designed. Whatever problems (A)D&D rules have do not keep FR from being a good and reasonably generic world setting |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2003 : 23:53:32
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Once you figure out a good conversion factor, FR can be used for any system. If you want to keep anything in perspective though, I think you need to be familiar with the D&D world to come up with a good conversion factor. I was able to come up with a way to transfer characters to Runequest, Stormbringer, Warhammer FR, Star Frontiers, and even Marvel Super heroes. You just need to know both systems real well.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 11:24:44
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quote:
How did you change it?. Can you please explain, I am curious.
first, it can be used as ranks and i think its very important for those who are reay to waste a feat to get more skill points in order to have faster their prestige class.
Second, u can choose two for the price of one.
And thats it. But its enough, i think the most important and what DnD should have done is the first point.
But even like that, im not sure at all i would choose a skill ocus feat just for myself, really i have to be pushed by the prestige class i want.
Maybe u have a better idea? |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 11:31:18
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Let me see if I understood that correctly. Your version of the Skill Focus feat can be used for any two skills (not just one), and instead of a bonus it counts as actual ranks in those skills, even if the skill would otherwise be maxed out.
Did I get that right? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 11:39:51
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| yes, ure right. It may be too much, but without that, nobody would take it and i can understand why when u get 2 to 10 or more skills a level. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 11:43:23
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| Your approach has something to it. But I think it should be that instead of the skill ranks, you gain an increase in how many ranks you can put into that skill. Or do you get that as well, under your version? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 11:52:34
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| in my version, u get the increase of the rank maximum so that u are really a specialist since u have the max even if u have less levels. But u paid the price. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 11:56:57
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| Yes, I think that's better. Why don't you put it all together and post it over here? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 11:57:49
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Your version of the Skill Focus, definitely has some validity to it eilinel. It seems like a rather interesting approach, and is actually quite workable, to a degree.
The received increase of the rank maximum also allows the player greater ability to customize the various skills the PC has, creating a specialist in that skill, as you say. Very unique. I may have to steal this idea .
Also, Bookwyrm is right, I think it would be a fantastic addition to the scroll he just indicated.
May your learning be free and unfettered
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Jun 2003 12:00:06 |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 13:01:42
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ok, lets go there.
but do u think it would be better with +2 in 1 skill or 2 skills; I think 1 is enough but not enough in the same time, well u see what i mean |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 13:31:13
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or a +1 in an other skill that has relation with the fisrt... like balnce and tumble or tumble and jump...
what do u think? |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 13:34:18
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| Yes, that makes more sense. I was thinking the same thing . . . . Like Knowledge (geography) with Knowledge (history), Profession (herbalist) with Heal, or Heal with the skill I made, Knowledge (anatomy). That sort of thing. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 13:59:40
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like that, it would mean that as a specialist u get an advantage in another tied skill.
I cannot understand why WotC didnt change the rules about this feat and the other feats alike: education and many that are in Forgotten Realms campaign settings |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 14:26:50
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Yes, eilinel this is a better idea, and appears to be more balanced. It's an interesting alternative and as Bookwyrm suggests, it would allow a branching effect for skills. I think that a Knowledge [the Planes] - Knowledge [Elementalism], would also be an interesting combination.
May your learning be free and unfettered
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 22:34:14
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Mournblade:
quote:
I was able to come up with a way to transfer characters to Runequest, Stormbringer, Warhammer FR, Star Frontiers, and even Marvel Super heroes. You just need to know both systems real well.
FASERIP.
TSR's Conan game used similar mechanics. TSR's Conan is way better than GURPS Conan. I wonder if WotC has any rights to Conan for RPGing. |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 14:35:22
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another problem that i said before : the difference between the prestige domains: check out the drow one that gives u lighting reflexes -a simple feat- and the speed one, that gives u a +2 dexterity enhancement, +2 initiative enhancement, and +10ft. speed. and why not immunity to everything after all... im pretty desapointed that they could put that kind of thing, which is for me far too powerful! its equal to two +1 enhancements in abitities, +2 in initiative -like the feat blooded- and +10ft. speed -like the barbarian quality.
Too much, and when u see the spells u can get... an elf fighter should get that prestige domain before doing anything.
So i think this one should be thrown out or changed.
What do u think? any thought about that? |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 12:13:01
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| don't think that im destroying DnD 3rd but i like to see the things well done, thats why. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 13:59:07
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I happen to like the current differences between 'prestige domains', as you say. Although I do also think they could use a little modification.
I can understand how you see things this way, though, eilinel.
May all your learning be free and unfettered
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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problems in DnD
